Heads and cam!
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,324
Likes: 5
From: Charlotte NC
Cheap Reliable Fast Pick two
Good luck! and don't forget supporting mods (bigger cam often needs a stall for a4 and gears or just gears for manual)
A quality tune costs almost your entire budget and if you end up making big power you are guaranteed to find the next weak link in your car. Roaching the tranny can easily eat 1200 bones. A Precision industries Vigilante converter will eat your entire budget.
Used parts may be your answer but I'd save my money until I had about four times your current budget, since grenading your short block will take about double your current budget just to fix the short block, its better to have an oh schitt fund if you have a toy.
Remember a good rule of thumb is figure out what you want to do, price each part IOT get and estimate and then double or triple it and you may end up in the ball park, especially with a 170K project.
Sell your old 46X double humps they are not as good as a more modern aluminum head.
It actually looks to me like no one is trying to bust your chops they are trying to save you some heart ache.
If your budget really is 3 digits and you really really have to dig into something, I agree with the suggestion that you change your valve springs and seals and leave the rest of the money alone for the OHHH SCHITT fund.
Mike
Good luck! and don't forget supporting mods (bigger cam often needs a stall for a4 and gears or just gears for manual)
A quality tune costs almost your entire budget and if you end up making big power you are guaranteed to find the next weak link in your car. Roaching the tranny can easily eat 1200 bones. A Precision industries Vigilante converter will eat your entire budget.
Used parts may be your answer but I'd save my money until I had about four times your current budget, since grenading your short block will take about double your current budget just to fix the short block, its better to have an oh schitt fund if you have a toy.
Remember a good rule of thumb is figure out what you want to do, price each part IOT get and estimate and then double or triple it and you may end up in the ball park, especially with a 170K project.
Sell your old 46X double humps they are not as good as a more modern aluminum head.
It actually looks to me like no one is trying to bust your chops they are trying to save you some heart ache.
If your budget really is 3 digits and you really really have to dig into something, I agree with the suggestion that you change your valve springs and seals and leave the rest of the money alone for the OHHH SCHITT fund.
Mike
fully!
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,294
Likes: 37
If you can get good used heads and cam, you might be able to squeeze it out . . .but, if I were you. I'd just freshen it up with new valve springs and seals and perhaps get some exhaust mods, a performance cam and 1.6 rockers and call it a day.
it will sound better, move a lil quicker.
it will sound better, move a lil quicker.
Pro
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 542
Likes: 0
From: middle of Illinois
Ok, I'm posting this because I can relate to your situation. I had a camaro project car for my main transportation in college a few years ago and I have to agree with the guys saying reliability should be goal number one right now.
As for the heads/cam budget... I'm in the middle of a heads/cam deal on my 92 vette right now. I didn't buy new heads, I had my old ones refurbed and finally tried something I've always been curious about, head porting. Anyway, the real reason for my post is to show you a real world parts list for a heads/cam project with real world pricing. My target was $1500.
PS, I swear if you show my wife I'll hunt you down.
Description, part # Price
Valve springs CC914 $120.00
Retainers CC941 $55.00
Hedman street hedders HED-68440 $160.00
.021 head gasket SCE-011062LT $88.00
Subtotal $423.00
3000 stall 9.5” torque converter $550.00
Subtotal $550.00
Cryo treated Strange 3.73:1 Dana 36 $650.00
Subtotal $650.00
PCMFORLESS custom chip program $204.00
Subtotal $204.00
1.94/1.50 swirled back cut valves $160.00
Machine work, recondition heads $368.00
Subtotal $528.00
LT1 cap & rotor MSD 4381 $140.00
Taylor 8.2mm plug wires $69.00
CSR Electric Water Pump $184.00
Royal Purple 75W90 gear oil (2 qts) $36.00
Royal Purple Dex III ATF (5 qts) $65.00
Royal Purple 5w30 Engine Oil (5 qts) $40.00
ARP LT-1 cylinder head bolts $86.00
Shipping $12.00
LT1 MSD blaster coil $43.00
Hardened pushrods $32.00
Subtotal $706.00
Axle & Drive Shaft Universal joints (3) $60.00
Timing Chain $20.00
Subtotal $80.00
Total Purchased $3141.00
As for the heads/cam budget... I'm in the middle of a heads/cam deal on my 92 vette right now. I didn't buy new heads, I had my old ones refurbed and finally tried something I've always been curious about, head porting. Anyway, the real reason for my post is to show you a real world parts list for a heads/cam project with real world pricing. My target was $1500.
PS, I swear if you show my wife I'll hunt you down.
Cam swap parts list
Description, part # Price
Valve springs CC914 $120.00
Retainers CC941 $55.00
Hedman street hedders HED-68440 $160.00
.021 head gasket SCE-011062LT $88.00
Subtotal $423.00
3000 stall 9.5” torque converter $550.00
Subtotal $550.00
Cryo treated Strange 3.73:1 Dana 36 $650.00
Subtotal $650.00
PCMFORLESS custom chip program $204.00
Subtotal $204.00
1.94/1.50 swirled back cut valves $160.00
Machine work, recondition heads $368.00
Subtotal $528.00
LT1 cap & rotor MSD 4381 $140.00
Taylor 8.2mm plug wires $69.00
CSR Electric Water Pump $184.00
Royal Purple 75W90 gear oil (2 qts) $36.00
Royal Purple Dex III ATF (5 qts) $65.00
Royal Purple 5w30 Engine Oil (5 qts) $40.00
ARP LT-1 cylinder head bolts $86.00
Shipping $12.00
LT1 MSD blaster coil $43.00
Hardened pushrods $32.00
Subtotal $706.00
Axle & Drive Shaft Universal joints (3) $60.00
Timing Chain $20.00
Subtotal $80.00
Total Purchased $3141.00
Last edited by reoch999; Jun 3, 2009 at 12:44 AM. Reason: spelling/grammar
Pro
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 542
Likes: 0
From: middle of Illinois
Just looking back over that list, I know there are several parts not on it. Locks for the valve spring retainers, valve spring shims, gaskets & sealant, break in lube, oil to use during break in, trans filter & gasket, oil pump shaft... So, probably a couple hundred bucks worth of "oh yeah" stuff I left off the list.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 9,758
Likes: 49
From: Houston Texas
Just looking back over that list, I know there are several parts not on it. Locks for the valve spring retainers, valve spring shims, gaskets & sealant, break in lube, oil to use during break in, trans filter & gasket, oil pump shaft... So, probably a couple hundred bucks worth of "oh yeah" stuff I left off the list.
the "oh yeah" stuff cost the most
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 435
Likes: 0
From: Bulverde TX
Thanks for the input im probably just goin to do heads just to stop my valve seals from leaking so i dont have to deal with the smoke haha. I just need it to be a little more reliable so i can make it through the first couple of years!
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 17,700
Likes: 1,667
From: moraga ca
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Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,157
Likes: 554
From: Glenbeulah Wi
113 heads with the 58cc chambers would result in a high compression ratio with the flat top pistons he had now on the 85. Not a good idea. The cam numbers are in the right area. To the original op; it doesn't make sense to change heads and cam and not change routine parts like the water pump, hoses and belt. Just removing 170,000 mile hoses will probably tear them. You have to think about reliability at this point. If you are going to use the car as transportation at college, make sure everything is in good solid shape and you will be happier in the long run. Getting stuck on the side of the road at night with a blown hose is not fun.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,799
Likes: 2
From: Cape Coral FL
Buy a set of valve seals and valve cover gaskets and just replace the seals.
Save your money to do a heads/cam swap the RIGHT way... You'll be money ahead, not to mention you won't be "bubba-fying" your engine with old dinosaur used heads. That is, if you want it to be reliable (as reliable as a 170K Vette can be).
Best of luck to you
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,172
Likes: 9
From: '88 TPI L98/HotCam Powell, Ohio
I forgot to mention, my L98 had 196,000 miles on it when I decided it should be replaced/rebuilt (just because). I pulled it apart and it still looked great. If it's not making any noise from the bottom don't worry about it. These TPI engines rarely see more than 4600 rpm which seems to make them last forever.
Advanced
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 85
Likes: 1
If you are fixing valve seals (I'm doing the same) It would be timely to put in new springs and 1.6 rockers while you are there. Others that have done that seem to say between 10-20hp from this.
Pulling the heads is quite a bit more work - but If you are not afraid of the effort - you can get a good look inside to see where you stand, and port matching - perhaps a basic bowl blend would help!!!.
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,976
Likes: 0
From: Patchogue NY
Cheap Reliable Fast Pick two
Good luck! and don't forget supporting mods (bigger cam often needs a stall for a4 and gears or just gears for manual)
A quality tune costs almost your entire budget and if you end up making big power you are guaranteed to find the next weak link in your car. Roaching the tranny can easily eat 1200 bones. A Precision industries Vigilante converter will eat your entire budget.
Used parts may be your answer but I'd save my money until I had about four times your current budget, since grenading your short block will take about double your current budget just to fix the short block, its better to have an oh schitt fund if you have a toy.
Remember a good rule of thumb is figure out what you want to do, price each part IOT get and estimate and then double or triple it and you may end up in the ball park, especially with a 170K project.
Sell your old 46X double humps they are not as good as a more modern aluminum head.
It actually looks to me like no one is trying to bust your chops they are trying to save you some heart ache.
If your budget really is 3 digits and you really really have to dig into something, I agree with the suggestion that you change your valve springs and seals and leave the rest of the money alone for the OHHH SCHITT fund.
Mike
Good luck! and don't forget supporting mods (bigger cam often needs a stall for a4 and gears or just gears for manual)
A quality tune costs almost your entire budget and if you end up making big power you are guaranteed to find the next weak link in your car. Roaching the tranny can easily eat 1200 bones. A Precision industries Vigilante converter will eat your entire budget.
Used parts may be your answer but I'd save my money until I had about four times your current budget, since grenading your short block will take about double your current budget just to fix the short block, its better to have an oh schitt fund if you have a toy.
Remember a good rule of thumb is figure out what you want to do, price each part IOT get and estimate and then double or triple it and you may end up in the ball park, especially with a 170K project.
Sell your old 46X double humps they are not as good as a more modern aluminum head.
It actually looks to me like no one is trying to bust your chops they are trying to save you some heart ache.
If your budget really is 3 digits and you really really have to dig into something, I agree with the suggestion that you change your valve springs and seals and leave the rest of the money alone for the OHHH SCHITT fund.
Mike
Joe B.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,043
Likes: 8
From: Tampa Florida
The car will last a couple of years if you just stay on top of the basic maintenance and fluids...you don't have to baby it....do the mods you opened the thread up with down the road. Good luck with the schooling.
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,756
Likes: 0
From: Wichita KS
You will need intake gaskets, The Right Stuff gasket maker for intake ends, an oil pan gasket, timing chain cover gasket and valve cover gaskets. Valve springs to match cam lift. Valve guide seals. new lifters for the used or new cam. Timing chain & gears. There are other incedentals like spark plugs, plug wires, 2-oil filters and enough oil for two changes. After cam break-in you have to change the oil and want fresh oil to break in the cam. With that many miles you may end up changing the distributor gear as well. To get the most out of that cam, you'll want to run roller rockers. And you might wanto use 7/16 rocker studs for strength over 3/8th studs for the stiffer springs. Then you'll need valve spring retainers, guides and hardened pushrods.
The top end of an engine is the most expensive part. I have purchaced all the above and probably have $2500 invested so far and haven't purchased plugs, oil & filters yet. I had to buy a few tools as well that I hadn't planned on. Best thing to do is save up and buy everything you will need for the job before starting in on it.
The top end of an engine is the most expensive part. I have purchaced all the above and probably have $2500 invested so far and haven't purchased plugs, oil & filters yet. I had to buy a few tools as well that I hadn't planned on. Best thing to do is save up and buy everything you will need for the job before starting in on it.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 435
Likes: 0
From: Bulverde TX
I forgot to mention, my L98 had 196,000 miles on it when I decided it should be replaced/rebuilt (just because). I pulled it apart and it still looked great. If it's not making any noise from the bottom don't worry about it. These TPI engines rarely see more than 4600 rpm which seems to make them last forever.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 9,758
Likes: 49
From: Houston Texas
fix the problem and get your cam too
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 435
Likes: 0
From: Bulverde TX
Thanks for all of your help everyone i know now what i am doing and it is all from the help of my fellow vetters! I am excited to get my car running better plus i will still be the only person at my school with a corvette!