Pwnage's 383 Build (Pics!!)
10-14-2010, 12:36 PM
#61
Tech Contributor
Thread Starter
I don't think I am going to block off my bypass. It is a street car. Its going to be maintained, but it doesn't seem totally necessary to me to do that. Plus it's more money that I could spend elsewhere
10-14-2010, 12:57 PM
#62
Race Director
Cost is around a dollar, it's just a simple plug. Up to you, good luck with the build.
10-14-2010, 12:59 PM
#63
Drifting
If you get sick of waiting for your compressor to charge up, you might invest in a electric type grinder. I bought a rather large one on sale at Harbor Freight (I am not talking about a Dremel type) for 25 bucks on sale. Best money I ever spent. I am reminded to wear eye protection every time I talk to my half blind friend Bob, who took a brake spring to his right eye, which is now glass. Eye pain sucks bad, I have scratched a cornea and burned them welding. And don't cut your hair, that 85 car was made for long hairs. Do not let it turn into a mullet quite yet (I am secretly waiting for them to return to style).
10-14-2010, 02:55 PM
#64
Tech Contributor
Thread Starter
If you get sick of waiting for your compressor to charge up, you might invest in a electric type grinder. I bought a rather large one on sale at Harbor Freight (I am not talking about a Dremel type) for 25 bucks on sale. Best money I ever spent. I am reminded to wear eye protection every time I talk to my half blind friend Bob, who took a brake spring to his right eye, which is now glass. Eye pain sucks bad, I have scratched a cornea and burned them welding. And don't cut your hair, that 85 car was made for long hairs. Do not let it turn into a mullet quite yet (I am secretly waiting for them to return to style).
An electric one sounds appealing. Link?
10-14-2010, 03:52 PM
#65
Race Director
For a rebuilt street engine you could plug the bypass for break in and then unscrew the plug later. 100% filtration for break in!!!
10-14-2010, 04:15 PM
#66
Race Director
Hey another thing to watch, your oil pressure gauge work good? My stock gauge was reading 8 PSI with the car off. Clearly something wasn't working well with that. I decided to just use an aftermarket setup so I didn't have to flip between temp and pressure. It now reads 0 like it should, I just want you to know so yours is accurate for break in!
For concerns with a plugged filter and a non-bypassing adapter, use a filter with a high pressure bypass built in the filter. For example FRAM HP4 I believe is rated at 22 PSI, the stock bypass is IIRC is 8! That is a lot of bypassed oil. Better oil pumps can cause more bypass to, as can restrictive filters. It's possible to have a new filter trip the bypass if it's a junky one.
For concerns with a plugged filter and a non-bypassing adapter, use a filter with a high pressure bypass built in the filter. For example FRAM HP4 I believe is rated at 22 PSI, the stock bypass is IIRC is 8! That is a lot of bypassed oil. Better oil pumps can cause more bypass to, as can restrictive filters. It's possible to have a new filter trip the bypass if it's a junky one.
10-14-2010, 09:53 PM
#67
Safety Car
It's really a personal preference thing. Lots of engine builders do it every engine they build and don't have any problems but I'm just of the school that unfiltered oil is better than no oil in a street car.
Will
10-14-2010, 11:40 PM
#69
Tech Contributor
Thread Starter
I honestly don't plug them on street engines, daily driver performance type of stuff. There are just too many variables. It could blow up a filter, it could put too much strain on the oil pump drive assy... People never watch gauges in a street car... last thing I need is some numbskull blowing all the oil out of an engine I built and burning it down because he wasn't watching the oil pressure gauge.
It's really a personal preference thing. Lots of engine builders do it every engine they build and don't have any problems but I'm just of the school that unfiltered oil is better than no oil in a street car.
Will
It's really a personal preference thing. Lots of engine builders do it every engine they build and don't have any problems but I'm just of the school that unfiltered oil is better than no oil in a street car.
Will
10-15-2010, 04:22 AM
#70
Drifting
10-15-2010, 07:50 AM
#71
Race Director
I follow this path too, I think I'd rather have somewhat dirty oil in my engine instead of no oil. I do watch my gauges, but I still wouldn't want to run the risk of taking my eyes off of it for a few minutes and boom there is my 6000 dollar engine build up in smoke. Especially since I don't have a lot of money to throw around
10-15-2010, 09:52 AM
#72
Safety Car
One other thing people don't take into account when they talk about the bypass in the oil filter adapter. The is still another bypass before it.
The bypass on the oil pump.
It is open constantly during cold start up and anytime oil pressures exceed the spring pressure on the plunger/valve (which is most of the time).... it's open even thou the oil filter bypass is also open.
Now the oil pump bypass puts oil directly back into the pan. On most SBC oil pumps - it dumps directly over or just to the side of the oil pump pick up. That it can cause oil pump cavitaton problems, espc when the oil is hot.
When the oil filter adapter bypasses - it dumps oil directly into the main/cam oil galley. You don't have any side effects other than less than 100% filtered oil going to the brgs. When you block it you make the filter the first restriction the oil pump bypass senses. You make the oil pump bypass run harder - spraying oil at a higher pressure than it normally does, which IMO can cause even more cavitation at the pump.
The oiling system is balance of many things. The factory has been perfecting these oiling systems and bypasses for years. Stock engine run well over 100,000 miles using them.
I see alot of amature engine builders (and professional ones for that matter) do things that throw that balance off in left field. People almost always have too little brg clearance for the type of oil they are running. Almost every street engine that I see has WAY too much oil pressure. I see cars that the oil pressure gauge never comes off an 80PSI peg and the owners all think that means they have a REAL GOOD engine.
Racing engines are an entirely differnt animal. Engine builders all have their little nick nacks that they think are the most important. They run for short peroids of time (compared to a street car) and are maintained weekley most of the time. The same rules don't apply and IMO there are very few things you can directly transfer over to a street car engine.
No matter how much we like to blow up our egos about our high performance street cars, 99.99% are more akin to a factory engine than a real racing engine. Even as good of an engine as I have in my personal car.... I change the oil every 3 months, I inspect the rockers and valve springs every year or so and I plan to put many years of driving on it before it needs to be "freshend up"... It does far more idling around in traffic, or cruising on the road than it does WOT at the drag strip or running thru the gears at a track day.
This is what I'm getting at with the oil filter bypass. Back in the 70's Smokey put that pic of one he had done in a book about building the SBC... In the 80's Ligenfelter did the same thing. They were transfering things that they did to their racing engine at the time over to street cars. Many engine builders saw that and thought "100% filtered oil thats got to be good". It has snowballed to this MUST DO MOD ever since. In reality it's a small thing that dosen't effect things enough to matter really - except in some circumstances and not many people bother to look down the line to see what else that effected in the oiling system..
Will
The bypass on the oil pump.
It is open constantly during cold start up and anytime oil pressures exceed the spring pressure on the plunger/valve (which is most of the time).... it's open even thou the oil filter bypass is also open.
Now the oil pump bypass puts oil directly back into the pan. On most SBC oil pumps - it dumps directly over or just to the side of the oil pump pick up. That it can cause oil pump cavitaton problems, espc when the oil is hot.
When the oil filter adapter bypasses - it dumps oil directly into the main/cam oil galley. You don't have any side effects other than less than 100% filtered oil going to the brgs. When you block it you make the filter the first restriction the oil pump bypass senses. You make the oil pump bypass run harder - spraying oil at a higher pressure than it normally does, which IMO can cause even more cavitation at the pump.
The oiling system is balance of many things. The factory has been perfecting these oiling systems and bypasses for years. Stock engine run well over 100,000 miles using them.
I see alot of amature engine builders (and professional ones for that matter) do things that throw that balance off in left field. People almost always have too little brg clearance for the type of oil they are running. Almost every street engine that I see has WAY too much oil pressure. I see cars that the oil pressure gauge never comes off an 80PSI peg and the owners all think that means they have a REAL GOOD engine.
Racing engines are an entirely differnt animal. Engine builders all have their little nick nacks that they think are the most important. They run for short peroids of time (compared to a street car) and are maintained weekley most of the time. The same rules don't apply and IMO there are very few things you can directly transfer over to a street car engine.
No matter how much we like to blow up our egos about our high performance street cars, 99.99% are more akin to a factory engine than a real racing engine. Even as good of an engine as I have in my personal car.... I change the oil every 3 months, I inspect the rockers and valve springs every year or so and I plan to put many years of driving on it before it needs to be "freshend up"... It does far more idling around in traffic, or cruising on the road than it does WOT at the drag strip or running thru the gears at a track day.
This is what I'm getting at with the oil filter bypass. Back in the 70's Smokey put that pic of one he had done in a book about building the SBC... In the 80's Ligenfelter did the same thing. They were transfering things that they did to their racing engine at the time over to street cars. Many engine builders saw that and thought "100% filtered oil thats got to be good". It has snowballed to this MUST DO MOD ever since. In reality it's a small thing that dosen't effect things enough to matter really - except in some circumstances and not many people bother to look down the line to see what else that effected in the oiling system..
Will
10-16-2010, 05:17 PM
#73
Tech Contributor
Thread Starter
One other thing people don't take into account when they talk about the bypass in the oil filter adapter. The is still another bypass before it.
The bypass on the oil pump.
It is open constantly during cold start up and anytime oil pressures exceed the spring pressure on the plunger/valve (which is most of the time).... it's open even thou the oil filter bypass is also open.
Now the oil pump bypass puts oil directly back into the pan. On most SBC oil pumps - it dumps directly over or just to the side of the oil pump pick up. That it can cause oil pump cavitaton problems, espc when the oil is hot.
When the oil filter adapter bypasses - it dumps oil directly into the main/cam oil galley. You don't have any side effects other than less than 100% filtered oil going to the brgs. When you block it you make the filter the first restriction the oil pump bypass senses. You make the oil pump bypass run harder - spraying oil at a higher pressure than it normally does, which IMO can cause even more cavitation at the pump.
The oiling system is balance of many things. The factory has been perfecting these oiling systems and bypasses for years. Stock engine run well over 100,000 miles using them.
I see alot of amature engine builders (and professional ones for that matter) do things that throw that balance off in left field. People almost always have too little brg clearance for the type of oil they are running. Almost every street engine that I see has WAY too much oil pressure. I see cars that the oil pressure gauge never comes off an 80PSI peg and the owners all think that means they have a REAL GOOD engine.
Racing engines are an entirely differnt animal. Engine builders all have their little nick nacks that they think are the most important. They run for short peroids of time (compared to a street car) and are maintained weekley most of the time. The same rules don't apply and IMO there are very few things you can directly transfer over to a street car engine.
No matter how much we like to blow up our egos about our high performance street cars, 99.99% are more akin to a factory engine than a real racing engine. Even as good of an engine as I have in my personal car.... I change the oil every 3 months, I inspect the rockers and valve springs every year or so and I plan to put many years of driving on it before it needs to be "freshend up"... It does far more idling around in traffic, or cruising on the road than it does WOT at the drag strip or running thru the gears at a track day.
This is what I'm getting at with the oil filter bypass. Back in the 70's Smokey put that pic of one he had done in a book about building the SBC... In the 80's Ligenfelter did the same thing. They were transfering things that they did to their racing engine at the time over to street cars. Many engine builders saw that and thought "100% filtered oil thats got to be good". It has snowballed to this MUST DO MOD ever since. In reality it's a small thing that dosen't effect things enough to matter really - except in some circumstances and not many people bother to look down the line to see what else that effected in the oiling system..
Will
The bypass on the oil pump.
It is open constantly during cold start up and anytime oil pressures exceed the spring pressure on the plunger/valve (which is most of the time).... it's open even thou the oil filter bypass is also open.
Now the oil pump bypass puts oil directly back into the pan. On most SBC oil pumps - it dumps directly over or just to the side of the oil pump pick up. That it can cause oil pump cavitaton problems, espc when the oil is hot.
When the oil filter adapter bypasses - it dumps oil directly into the main/cam oil galley. You don't have any side effects other than less than 100% filtered oil going to the brgs. When you block it you make the filter the first restriction the oil pump bypass senses. You make the oil pump bypass run harder - spraying oil at a higher pressure than it normally does, which IMO can cause even more cavitation at the pump.
The oiling system is balance of many things. The factory has been perfecting these oiling systems and bypasses for years. Stock engine run well over 100,000 miles using them.
I see alot of amature engine builders (and professional ones for that matter) do things that throw that balance off in left field. People almost always have too little brg clearance for the type of oil they are running. Almost every street engine that I see has WAY too much oil pressure. I see cars that the oil pressure gauge never comes off an 80PSI peg and the owners all think that means they have a REAL GOOD engine.
Racing engines are an entirely differnt animal. Engine builders all have their little nick nacks that they think are the most important. They run for short peroids of time (compared to a street car) and are maintained weekley most of the time. The same rules don't apply and IMO there are very few things you can directly transfer over to a street car engine.
No matter how much we like to blow up our egos about our high performance street cars, 99.99% are more akin to a factory engine than a real racing engine. Even as good of an engine as I have in my personal car.... I change the oil every 3 months, I inspect the rockers and valve springs every year or so and I plan to put many years of driving on it before it needs to be "freshend up"... It does far more idling around in traffic, or cruising on the road than it does WOT at the drag strip or running thru the gears at a track day.
This is what I'm getting at with the oil filter bypass. Back in the 70's Smokey put that pic of one he had done in a book about building the SBC... In the 80's Ligenfelter did the same thing. They were transfering things that they did to their racing engine at the time over to street cars. Many engine builders saw that and thought "100% filtered oil thats got to be good". It has snowballed to this MUST DO MOD ever since. In reality it's a small thing that dosen't effect things enough to matter really - except in some circumstances and not many people bother to look down the line to see what else that effected in the oiling system..
Will
I think I'll just leave it the way it is.
Thanks for all the help Will, you are extremely intelligent.
Just for an idea, does anybody have any guesses on what my car will run at the track?
Its an auto 3.07 rear. I know this isn't going to last long behind the new motor. I give it a week.
I'm kinda hoping the street tires don't grip too well and help the transmission and rear end to last a bit longer. I wouldn't even think of putting DR's on it.Rear tires are 19x10.5" BFG KDW2's.
Engine Specs:
383 CID
6" Rod
5cc Flat tops (roughly 10.8-11.0 compression)
Ported Dart Pro1's (flow sheet on first page)
230/236 .594" w/1.6RR Hyd Roller, "aggressive lobes" (LE Said very similar to XFI Lobes)
2600 Stall ([?] have to call LE and see which rpm it was)
Ported SR intake (pics on first page, idk what it flows)
FWIW, no spare tire/jack.
Underdrive pullies
bypassed tb, open air lid K&N, descreened maf
New motor will not have air pump/any emissions plumbing. Retaining unworking A/C for future fixing.
TPIS Headers
Exhaust will be either a modified LT1 system with an xpipe, or a 2.5" system with an h pipe. Not sure which way I am going to go with this yet, suggestions?
I've been wondering and want to know what the pro's think.
I'm not experienced at racing, I have never done it. I am assuming a lot of you will say something along the lines of "if you can get it to hook..."
Last edited by Pwnage1337; 10-16-2010 at 05:52 PM. Reason: forgot a few mods
10-17-2010, 11:40 PM
#74
Drifting
Most of this is totally over my head, I understand it but not entirely.
I think I'll just leave it the way it is.
Thanks for all the help Will, you are extremely intelligent.
Just for an idea, does anybody have any guesses on what my car will run at the track?
Its an auto 3.07 rear. I know this isn't going to last long behind the new motor. I give it a week. I'm kinda hoping the street tires don't grip too well and help the transmission and rear end to last a bit longer. I wouldn't even think of putting DR's on it.
Rear tires are 19x10.5" BFG KDW2's.
Engine Specs:
383 CID
6" Rod
5cc Flat tops (roughly 10.8-11.0 compression)
Ported Dart Pro1's (flow sheet on first page)
230/236 .594" w/1.6RR Hyd Roller, "aggressive lobes" (LE Said very similar to XFI Lobes)
2600 Stall ([?] have to call LE and see which rpm it was)
Ported SR intake (pics on first page, idk what it flows)
FWIW, no spare tire/jack.
Underdrive pullies
bypassed tb, open air lid K&N, descreened maf
New motor will not have air pump/any emissions plumbing. Retaining unworking A/C for future fixing.
TPIS Headers
Exhaust will be either a modified LT1 system with an xpipe, or a 2.5" system with an h pipe. Not sure which way I am going to go with this yet, suggestions?
I've been wondering and want to know what the pro's think.
I'm not experienced at racing, I have never done it. I am assuming a lot of you will say something along the lines of "if you can get it to hook..."
I think I'll just leave it the way it is.
Thanks for all the help Will, you are extremely intelligent.
Just for an idea, does anybody have any guesses on what my car will run at the track?
Its an auto 3.07 rear. I know this isn't going to last long behind the new motor. I give it a week.
I'm kinda hoping the street tires don't grip too well and help the transmission and rear end to last a bit longer. I wouldn't even think of putting DR's on it.Rear tires are 19x10.5" BFG KDW2's.
Engine Specs:
383 CID
6" Rod
5cc Flat tops (roughly 10.8-11.0 compression)
Ported Dart Pro1's (flow sheet on first page)
230/236 .594" w/1.6RR Hyd Roller, "aggressive lobes" (LE Said very similar to XFI Lobes)
2600 Stall ([?] have to call LE and see which rpm it was)
Ported SR intake (pics on first page, idk what it flows)
FWIW, no spare tire/jack.
Underdrive pullies
bypassed tb, open air lid K&N, descreened maf
New motor will not have air pump/any emissions plumbing. Retaining unworking A/C for future fixing.
TPIS Headers
Exhaust will be either a modified LT1 system with an xpipe, or a 2.5" system with an h pipe. Not sure which way I am going to go with this yet, suggestions?
I've been wondering and want to know what the pro's think.
I'm not experienced at racing, I have never done it. I am assuming a lot of you will say something along the lines of "if you can get it to hook..."
10-17-2010, 11:50 PM
#75
Team Owner
Member Since: Oct 2004
Location: altered state
Posts: 81,242
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St. Jude Donor '05
What Will is saying, I think is the general got it right no need to reinvent the wheel. Put your adapter on filter fill and forget.
10-17-2010, 11:56 PM
#76
Tech Contributor
Thread Starter
I had asked bjankuski to tune it for me, he lives in WI. I want to go to a 165 ECM/harness instead of the 870 I currently have. I have a lot of problems with my MAF's, and I think it is partially due to the burnoff module/butchered wiring harness.
10-18-2010, 02:13 AM
#78
Le Mans Master
I think he will make more than that based on my experience with those heads... 
(Though dynos are not to be trusted unless used in a before/after type of comparison where you keep the conditions and dyno parameters the same.)
(Though dynos are not to be trusted unless used in a before/after type of comparison where you keep the conditions and dyno parameters the same.)
Last edited by USAsOnlyWay; 10-18-2010 at 02:16 AM.
10-18-2010, 11:55 AM
#79
Drifting
But wouldn't he be somewhat limited in the RPM department with the Superram? Or would the insane torque make up for that......I guess his peak HP would depend on the high RPM capability of his ported Superram, which I have no idea of what that would be, though I am sure someone else here would know. Would he see 6500 RPM?
10-18-2010, 12:41 PM
#80
Tech Contributor
Thread Starter
I don't know that I would see 6500 rpm but remember its a street engine and it will probably rarely reach 6000+ I'm hoping to be in the 375 rwhp range.
What did you make USA? My Cam is a bit bigger and I have a ported SR where yours was stock right?
What did you make USA? My Cam is a bit bigger and I have a ported SR where yours was stock right?
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