This may be a bad idea...

You seem to have isolated the problem to the start enable relay. The tests I mentioned last night should tell you if the problem is getting battery voltage to terminal C of the relay or the VATS signal to terminal B of the relay. A problem with either of those will prevent the relay from functioning.

You have also demonstrated in your video that you can start the car by pushing on the relay and shorting terminal E to terminal A.

So here's my dumb idea: why not just bypass the relay entirely by connecting the yellow wire (terminal E) to the the green/white wire (terminal A)?

As far as I can tell, the relay is only there as a part of VATS. Bypassing the relay will leave the fuel injection part of VATS intact so you will still have some security.

I feel like an idiot even suggesting this after last night's feux pas, but looking at the schematic this should work and be safe: the ignition switch and yellow and green/white wires are already passing the current every time you start it.

Wayne

 

 

Not solved yet

 

if i put the wires together the starter will be constantly energized , i read that's not good ? i cant remember , im not sure , someone might chime in thanks

 

In the schematic there are three switches between the battery and the starter---the ignition switch, the starter enable relay, and the transmission position switch. If you bypass the relay the ignition switch will only allow battery voltage to reach the yellow wire when it's in the start position. Similarly, the transmission position switch only allows current to flow to the starter when it's in the park or neutral positions.

When all three switches are closed current flows to the starter solenoid and powers the pull-in and hold-in windings which moves the plunger. The plunger pushes the drive assembly gear so it engages with the large gear on the flywheel. The plunger also closes the switch that allows current to flow between terminals B and M of the solenoid and power the actual starter motor.

Short answer, no, the starter will not be energized. (Sorry, I got wordy again.)

I understand and respect your hesitance at doing this. By all means, you should fully understand how this works and be confident in the result before cutting anything. I'm just looking at the schematic and drawing conclusions from what I see.

My recommendation is to do the test in the System Diagnosis Starter on page 8A-30-3 first. That should indicate whether the problem is before or after the relay.

As for bypassing the relay, it may be possible to do it without cutting any wires. You might remove the relay and put a thick wire jumper between the sockets or terminals E and A. Or, if you have two relays, you might tear down one and solder a wire between the A and E terminals.

It's a shame we're so far apart. It would be much easier to go over the schematic & brainstorm the bypass with you face-to-face.

 

hola, Sammy! the dude's right. the relay will be grounded, but needs the positive from the yellow wire, when key is in "start." I've heard of others permanently grounding the relay for the same reason. it beats trying to hunt down the open circuit, whatever, the grn wire maybe, from ecm.

saludos, joe

 

thanks guys , i think i will end doing that , btw ..if i do this ...the vats still works ?
if a thief comes and try to make it run ?

 

Assuming VATS is working now...yes, it will still work. The part that disables the injectors won't be affected by anything (that I can think of) you do to the start enable relay.

You could even add some security by putting a button or keyed switch in the bypass. Just hide it. When you want to start it you put the ignition switch in the start position and hit your secret button---kind of like you are doing now with the relay.

 

yep, thanks , i was thinking on putting that midamerica connector hidden somewhere

 

I remembered this morning you can check this by intentionally triggering VATS & making sure the car doesn't start.

The "official" way to do this is to disconnect connector C281 inside the sound pannel under the drivers side dash (sorry, I don't have my FSM with me so can't give the page number). I did the same thing by simply wrapping scotch tape around my key over the resistor pellet.

When you try to start your car (ignition switch to start, push relay) it may catch briefly but shouldn't run.

 

Wayne ! Very good idea with the scotch tape , i will do that !
thank you bigtime !

 

You're welcome.

I think it's important to try the scotch tape & green wire back probe tests to be absolutely sure of the problem before any mods.

Good luck.

 

i will try the scotch tape method and pushing the relay tab , that will sum it up for me

 

What about your 700R4 trans Sammy ?

No one is going to get that Very Desirable C4 rear diff everyone wants that I have complete with "C" beam & correct yoke & driveshaft.

They will have to beat me 1st to death.

All have failed over the 41 years of my lifetime & kicked their asses to begin with or always went back later & did the job Right.

Its Yours Sammy.

Beside myself............

You need to repair your 87 coupe 700 R4 trans yet.

dana 36 works till it blows apart.

Have not blown my dana 36 in my 87 Vert yet.

Has seen a ton of abuse by me since 2007.

 

Hey BR , D44 its a must !

 

Alright Sammy,

I will do it your way.

Future photos coming up on C4 Tech of myself building your Dana 44 then.



Your going to have a spanking clean & ready to bolt in Dana 44 but only 1st, 2nd, & Reverse.

That bothers me yet.

BR

 

lol i know BR , but the D44 its a major thing to me , i won't have the $ to pull it off again but the TH700 can be fixed anytime, in fact i will fix it before installing the D44.

 

What is going to cost in your estimation to rebuild your 87 coupe 700R4 trans Sammy?

Figure in the special Vigilante/ Precision torque converter..........

Debris is inside of it & washed through it likely.

Risky to reuse as is.

Needs to be sent to Precision Converters to be inspected- taken apart & rebuild as necessary.

When the 3-4 clutch goes in a 700R4 & 4L60E,
Friction & steel materials go everywhere internal.

 

will take it apart and inspect what's going on there later

 

My estimation,

there is enough to rebuild & blueprint your 87 700R4 yourself & have your Vigilante Precision torque converter reconditioned & some $$ left over.

Pay for the Dana 44 I have with what you have current,
you still fall short on $$.

And you have no $$$ to repair your 700R4.

I saved the Dana44 for you for 5 months thus far.
What is another 5 months?

I find side work Sammy sooner or later to make extra $$$ for myself.
C4 not required.
Never been hired by anyone from C4 anyhow.
Just here to help all & have fun in my spare time.

I want you to fix your 700R4 trans 1st Sammy.

Any deposit over $2.00 & I will save the dana 44 for you yet.

Brian R.