Originally Posted by FICINJECTORS

I meant and you know it about the Bosch Dealer statement you made earlier.. When it comes to that You know nothing as evedenced by your post. On the otherhand, you know more about the c4 than anyone on here!. Thats great!!!

Originally Posted by GREGGPENN

I think the issue aggravating Jon (an myself) is about the authorized dealer point. What's at issue is whether Jon is worse, equal to, or better than a so-called authorized dealer.

What does it take to be an authorized dealer? Is it just a fee? By being an authorized dealer, does that mean you sell better parts or provide better service?

In my past experience, any electronic part installed on your car can not be returned after use. You won't get sympathy or a replacement. Electronics are treated as their own class of part. I believe injectors would fall in that class.

If anyone buying Accel, Bosch, SI, Trickflow (or any other brand of injector from an "authorized dealer") trys to return a part for warranty, they will have to send it to the manufacturer and wait for a determination of fault. If you actually find they assume fault, you will get a replacement part shipped in it's place. You won't get techinical assistance, great customer service, or anything worth hooting about. Instead, you'll get a lot of grief and downtime.

In the case of injectors, I would bet on 100% denial for warranty claims. Why? Because they'd assume a dirty fuel system caused the failure. Even if it didn't, you can not prove it.

Jon operates his business MUCH differently. Whether for stock replacement or modification, you can pick a set of injectors -- knowing you have the option for exchange, cleaning, warranty. Plus, as you've seen in this thread, he'll work beyond sales requirements to help you find a solution. (In most cases, he's helping you "fix" your car like the local Advanced Auto Parts guy who comes out with his scanner.)

Jon also will send/exchange injectors w/o question. As you see in this thread, he may even wait for his old set w/o charge. No "authorized dealer" would EVER do that.

The only question is about the quality/compatibility of his products. Since there are few/no complaints about the quality, I submit that's not an issue. (Start a poll to prove otherwise.)

Jon sells (what appears to be) a nearly 100% compatible FORD solution in the Bosch 3 injectors. If purchased new, they would cost $117ea X eight. He sells rebuilts for $169/set. That's over $100 less than Accel. For many of the $5k (and less) valued C4's, that's a bargain and worth consideration. I suspect, it's also worth taking a gamble on -- IF -- a warranty claim becomes necessary. And, considering Jon's service and replacement policies, I see little risk. I see his option as better than "authorized dealer" service.

I probably shouldn't get "mad" at Koolvette unless I assume his posts are to criticize the FIC option. At some points, I have assumed just that. Mostly, I assume this because he stood behind Engle who had bigger issues and refused to listen to reason. Engle posted about losing hundreds of dollars and time with the FIC solution. My point (to him) was proper tuning would have prevented damage (if any occured). Even if bad, mistaken, or faulty injectors were delivered to him by Jon. Because I saw the correspondence between he and Jon, I know he lost semblence of logic and put blame where it did not belong. And, he did so with some degree of resentment to a vendor going out of his way to help him. Engle assumed Jon is a bribing, sleazy, salesman vs. the type of vendor this forum needs to have.

Because he fought me in making this point, and because he wanted to make it sound like Jon (and his products) are bad, I was asked to help Jon negate that attack. It was a fair request since I'd already tried to calm Engle down and persuade some logic.

Jon, thru all this, still wanted to figure out IF his products (or less costly solution in B3's) have ANY kind of issue. It was my idea to start this poll. But I, erroneously, did not create proper focus on the goal. The goal is really to determine if hard-starting exists for a sub-class of C4 engines. (Which would be a result of ECM/BIN and possibly moder E10 fuels.)

From what I understand from talking to Jon this week, all of the issues so far (even ones voting negatively in this poll) have been solved by isolating another problem such as fuel pressure. If he finds something different, I'm sure he will post it.

For now, we know Engle is dissatified and unhappy. That won't change. Neither will my promise to assist Jon in investigating the starting aspect of the B3 injector solution....especially in early TPI cars.