Stronger IRS?
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 21,543
Likes: 3,216
From: Park City Utah
the fact is I don't think a C6 differential is any stronger than the C4.
Last edited by Tom400CFI; Oct 1, 2012 at 11:10 AM.
Racer
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 440
Likes: 6
From: aumsville oregon
I raced a hillclimb this weekend and had a blast I had the third fastest time for the hill this weekend. I usaully autocross the car. This is with the solid rearend in the car. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k2s-...e_gdata_player
Last edited by thetoy; Oct 1, 2012 at 06:46 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,270
Likes: 118
From: N. Babylon NY
Here are some pictures of my setup. http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?s...0714708&type=3
I raced a hillclimb this weekend and had a blast I had the third fastest time for the hill this weekend. I usaully autocross the car. This is with the solid rearend in the car. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k2s-...e_gdata_player
I raced a hillclimb this weekend and had a blast I had the third fastest time for the hill this weekend. I usaully autocross the car. This is with the solid rearend in the car. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k2s-...e_gdata_player
The hillclimb looks cool-Nothing like that on Long Island.
Steve
Last edited by STEVEN13; Oct 1, 2012 at 04:02 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 14,167
Likes: 142
From: Central Il
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: Sep 2012
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I understand what you all are saying it will cost and be a big pain in the *** to do for such a noob. And I appreciate all your opinions and thoughts, I will still save some dough and go for that IRS. All of you may not agree and I understand you would do what is more affordable and reasonable. But I still strive to have the perfect car for me, and be unique. Again Thank you all for being apart of this thread and giving thoughts. 
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 4,564
Likes: 109
From: Austin Texas
I've been talking to them about what it would take for a Gen1/Gen2 Viper D44 to have as a bolt-in.
They aren't interested...said I could modify the batwing mount points for their billet carrier...have to move them inboard about 3" each side.
I'm not interested in that either...pushes me into an "altered frame" class.
These people just don't get it...there is a NEED for a bolt-in high strength IRS for the C4's. I would buy it in a heartbeat if the price was right, but they won't even entertain it.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 25,377
Likes: 2,735
That is a Gen3/Gen4 Viper M50 center with C6 gear for the rest of it...
I've been talking to them about what it would take for a Gen1/Gen2 Viper D44 to have as a bolt-in.
They aren't interested...said I could modify the batwing mount points for their billet carrier...have to move them inboard about 3" each side.
I'm not interested in that either...pushes me into an "altered frame" class.
These people just don't get it...there is a NEED for a bolt-in high strength IRS for the C4's. I would buy it in a heartbeat if the price was right, but they won't even entertain it.
I've been talking to them about what it would take for a Gen1/Gen2 Viper D44 to have as a bolt-in.
They aren't interested...said I could modify the batwing mount points for their billet carrier...have to move them inboard about 3" each side.
I'm not interested in that either...pushes me into an "altered frame" class.
These people just don't get it...there is a NEED for a bolt-in high strength IRS for the C4's. I would buy it in a heartbeat if the price was right, but they won't even entertain it.
I'd be interested in documenting the M50 source!
Last edited by WVZR-1; Oct 1, 2012 at 06:42 PM.
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Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2003
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You might consider a "pinion snubber"!
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 4,564
Likes: 109
From: Austin Texas
One of the biggest things is their case is WAY thicker than our D44's, with strength added in the right places to keep it intact. Also, the front tabs, solidly mounted to the vehicle, prevent the snout from moving at all. I've seen turbo Gen2 Vipers with >1000 RWHP launch with slicks repeatedly with their D44's (stock), and never an issue with them.
OUR D44's internally could probably hold their own...but the case is crap. There isn't enough meat and webbing around the snout to keep it in one piece. Tom's Differential's were working on a billet version at one time, but they dropped that due to cost.
Not to "nit-pick" BUT I believe you need to educate yourself between C5 and C6 suspension components.! The image in this thread is done with C5 components and "Conestoga wheels"! I don't know that I've ever seen the differential referred to as an M50 except in one internet build report, it's a 226mm super 44 internally.
I'd be interested in documenting the M50 source!
I'd be interested in documenting the M50 source!
It is a Gen III/IV Viper M50 with C5/6 Corvette outer suspension.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 25,377
Likes: 2,735
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,270
Likes: 118
From: N. Babylon NY
Got it-Thanks!
That Watts set-up looks nice and I see the exhaust is below the rear housing. I spoke with Art Morrision and saw on their website the comparison of the watts and the triangluated 4 link. Both systems appear to be close in terms of handling. When I get mine completed I will start a thread with photos. If you dont mind what spring rate in the rear.
Thanks again!
That Watts set-up looks nice and I see the exhaust is below the rear housing. I spoke with Art Morrision and saw on their website the comparison of the watts and the triangluated 4 link. Both systems appear to be close in terms of handling. When I get mine completed I will start a thread with photos. If you dont mind what spring rate in the rear.
Thanks again!
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 21,543
Likes: 3,216
From: Park City Utah
How does the snout move with the c-beam bolted to it? The case being weaker is 100% believable for me, but snout movement? If anything, I'd think a little flex would cushion the blow to the housing. Not that I'd want any flex, but...
Racer
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 440
Likes: 6
From: aumsville oregon
Got it-Thanks!
That Watts set-up looks nice and I see the exhaust is below the rear housing. I spoke with Art Morrision and saw on their website the comparison of the watts and the triangluated 4 link. Both systems appear to be close in terms of handling. When I get mine completed I will start a thread with photos. If you dont mind what spring rate in the rear.
Thanks again!
That Watts set-up looks nice and I see the exhaust is below the rear housing. I spoke with Art Morrision and saw on their website the comparison of the watts and the triangluated 4 link. Both systems appear to be close in terms of handling. When I get mine completed I will start a thread with photos. If you dont mind what spring rate in the rear.
Thanks again!
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 4,564
Likes: 109
From: Austin Texas
This is fairly typical:
Internally, they are great.
Externally, they don't hold up to lots of torque abuse.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,838
Likes: 31
From: Australia
the later Vette suspensions are double wishbone so the halfshaft is not a stressed member as it in in a C4
where it performs the task of being the upper "wishbone" of the rear suspension as well as transmitting power to the wheels
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,713
Likes: 105
From: Manassas VA
[QUOTE=1991Z07;1581972860]Look at most of the D44 failures, and you'll see they break where the snout and the main part of the casing meet.
Internally, they are great.
Externally, they don't hold up to lots of torque abuse.[/QUOTE]
That has not been my experience. Ironically I have never broke a u-joint, axle stub etc. Mine have all been internal failures. Usually starting with axle-spider gear failures, clutch pack failures, and in some cases when not catching the axle-spider gear failure soon enough, breaking ring and pinion gears and the case. BTW this has not been a 1 time thing for me, I have broke it at least 5 times. FWIW I know of other members who have had the same problems, but again we are usually drag racing with slicks
Internally, they are great.
Externally, they don't hold up to lots of torque abuse.[/QUOTE]
That has not been my experience. Ironically I have never broke a u-joint, axle stub etc. Mine have all been internal failures. Usually starting with axle-spider gear failures, clutch pack failures, and in some cases when not catching the axle-spider gear failure soon enough, breaking ring and pinion gears and the case. BTW this has not been a 1 time thing for me, I have broke it at least 5 times. FWIW I know of other members who have had the same problems, but again we are usually drag racing with slicks
Last edited by 93 ragtop; Oct 2, 2012 at 07:30 AM.
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 81,241
Likes: 3,063
From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
Nice sounding mill there thetoy. Care to share about your engine?
Id think if the case was strengthened and the pinion cant move the stress just takes it out on the gear assy and everything attached to it. Rigid mounting like that will find more and more weak links lol.
Its like using stiff or solid mounts on a trans and motor eventually the trans case splits, has to be some "give" to things.
Id think if the case was strengthened and the pinion cant move the stress just takes it out on the gear assy and everything attached to it. Rigid mounting like that will find more and more weak links lol.
Its like using stiff or solid mounts on a trans and motor eventually the trans case splits, has to be some "give" to things.
Last edited by cv67; Oct 2, 2012 at 07:36 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,713
Likes: 105
From: Manassas VA
[QUOTE=WVZR-1;1581969950]The material in the pinion area of the housing and the support of the housing at the pinion front essentially is the difference. There have been refinements in the differential itself but none that can be incorporated into the C4 D44 with the exception of the 226mm ring gear packages that are out there. When purchasing a 226mm ring/pinion package a person needs to make sure they buy one with 3/8" ring gear bolts. Later super 44 builds are 7/16" and maybe 2 - 3 years ago CMC/Mopar actually went to 1/2" ring gear bolts on the super 44 used in Jeep etc.
You might consider a "pinion snubber"![/QUOTE]
Dave, couldnt a lot of the case weakness be overcome with the car creations case? Also, would it be possible to use the viper case, but move the internals, axles etc from the c4 into it, and then make a mount to support the front using the viper wings on the case? Im also assuming the viper case would bolt to the c4 batwing.
The pinion snubber is something that Will has been working with on his, but trying to keep the viberation from coming into the cabin has been a challenge. His is braced off of his rollbar.
You might consider a "pinion snubber"![/QUOTE]
Dave, couldnt a lot of the case weakness be overcome with the car creations case? Also, would it be possible to use the viper case, but move the internals, axles etc from the c4 into it, and then make a mount to support the front using the viper wings on the case? Im also assuming the viper case would bolt to the c4 batwing.
The pinion snubber is something that Will has been working with on his, but trying to keep the viberation from coming into the cabin has been a challenge. His is braced off of his rollbar.