Makes sense; thanks.

 

Like I said before - I have to order all of my parts tonight. I wish I had time to check all the clearances but I just don't. And I still don't understand why it matters if they're all shot or if just a few of them are.
If this holds me over until the rebuild, great. If not, it's a learning experience.
And you'd be amazed at the difference punctuation makes.

 

Go ----- ur self kid. Now ur making fun of me. I left school a long time ago to work when I was 15yrs old because I had too and made my way in this world and have done pretty damn good. I've had nothing handed to me and I've built more engines than u can count. I've always had punk kids like u that have come into my shops over the yrs that wanted 50k a yr and couldn't even raise a car up on the rack safely to change someones oil and couldn't even do a timing chain r&r or a water pump on a sbc or ford. Whats this world coming to when soo many kids have no Respect

 

I apologize.
I'm just a little frustrated that one second you tell me I can't do it, then when I go slowly to make sure I don't screw up you tell me I'm going too slow, then you tell me again that I am not putting enough time into it.
I wasn't making fun of you any more than you were making fun of me by giving me advice. Fact is, it's difficult for me to read without proper punctuation and I know others have the same difficulty.
On the topic of respect, telling someone to "go ----- theirself" doesn't rank very high.
And I assure you, I'm not a punk. Nor do I ask for what I can't earn. I do yard work for my neighbors for minimum wage (or less) and have been studying non-stop to get good grades so I can become an engineer.
I respect people like you that make their way with nothing but hard work - people like that are what make America great.

 

Greek is my first language and english is my 2nd and i still talk with a heavy Greek accent and u saying that u can't read my writing because i don't have proper punctuation is a cop out, or maybe u do need to still study. It's just taking a shot at me because i'm different and don't write that well and you not owing up to it and u back stepping. I've herd people like u all my life Not the first time and it wont be the last.
Mal-lack-ka Tha-gest-tees Te-con-ess Ka-thou-low Hee-sa Aaa-coo-moo-os Me-cross

 

I didn't say I couldn't read it, I said it was difficult. And I have all the more respect for you for being bilingual.
I'm not taking a shot at you because you're different by any means. How would I even know you're "different"?
Why do you have such a big chip on your shoulder?

 

Okay, back on track to the actual topic, I ordered a high volume oil pump and new main and rod bearings (along with new upper and lower shift boots - mine are pretty torn up) and I plan to install them next weekend. I'll let you guys know how it all turns out and most likely continue my never-ending stream of questions.

Thanks again for all of the time you guys took to give me advice!

 

Can't we all just get along?

I am enjoying this thread, and have gotten a few tips, and enjoy seeing an enthusiastic young man tackling a new project. I hate it when threads go South because someone changes the subject or gets hurt feelings.

I appreciate any and all help this forum provides, as there are a lot of smart, experienced car crafters to glean info from.

Please post and let us know how it's going

 

this is how I do it; I don't buy a bearing "set";

I buy a single "standard bearing" and I buy a single ".001" oversize bearing (which means the bearing is slightly thicker to accommodate wear on the crank)

I then install and check each bearing journal with both the stnd and .001 os bearings and check the clearances with plastigage; chances are some journals will be okay with the standard bearings, but some others will need the oversize bearings; keep track of which journals take the standard bearings and which take the oversize bearings and order accordingly; Summit sells individual bearings,

After market bearings are so much simpler because they are clearly marked "stnd" or ".001 OS"; unfortunately the factory uses a letter code; ".0006" (probably .0005) indicates a bearing one half thousandth oversize, available at the factory but not so easy to find in the after market.

good luck

 

I have a question. I'm not sure about the exact path the oil travels but here goes:
LeesVette suggested to flush the engine, and I think it would benefit from it, as sludge no doubt has accumulated in the engine to some degree. It might also be keeping the gauge from reporting accurately.
Now that the engine will have fresh bearings, it was mentioned that the particles might add wear to the new bearings and existing cam bearings. If flushed, wouldn't the oil filter catch the particles and keep them from getting into the engine?

Question being should he still flush out the engine after he puts the bearings in?

Just curious as to what factors are at play if you flush an engine, and I do not want to misdirect the thread but I keep wondering.....

 

IMHO, don't flush the engine, it's too late.......Should have been done before disassembly.

 

Looking at the crankshaft main bearing journal as well as other engine parts in the background, I see no evidence of any sludge at all. Looks like a normal engine with a few miles on it - nothing out of the ordinary here at all. Looking at the bearing shell itself, again there is very little dirt which has embedded in the surface. The bearing looks in very good shape. This is a normal engine and sludge is not a problem.

Modern oils do an excellent job of keeping things clean – be it synthetics or dino.

There is some RTV on the pan mating surface –so perhaps someone has been in there before?

As before – just my observations – others will differ –

Jake -

 

The oil pump output is routed through the filter first, then (I am going from memory here), it goes up to the oil gallery in the lifter valley, feeding the cam bearings and hydraulic lifters and then is pushed down to the main bearings, then through oil passages in the crank, out to the rod bearings. BUT (and that's a big "BUT") the oil filter adaptor has a pressure bypass valve in it that allows some of the pump output to bypass the filter. At least three things influence the amount of oil that bypasses the filter: 1. Higher oil pressure from thick, cold oil combined with filter element resistance to flow. 2. High oil pressure at higher RPMs, and 3. Increased filter element flow resistance due to captured debris. The debris can be metal shavings and particles, or, in the case of some filter element materials, antifreeze and moisture.

I can only speculate on the "right" answer. The oil that was drained out showed lots of metal contamination, so it is reasonable to assume that the oil pressure bypass was doing its thing and there is remaining contamination in the block. This material is going to circulate and be captured by the filter, up until the point where factors one, two and/or three come into play. This is going to occur whether you have a crankcase full of regular oil or a cocktail of oil, ATF and Marvel mystery oil (which does have some amazing solvent capability). SO, I think with all of this said, my inclination would be capture the remaining metal on *MY* terms, and flush with a mixture of three quarts 10W30 or thinner conventional motor oil, a quart of ATF and a quart of Mystery Oil. Don't drive the car. Run it in the driveway, keeping the RPMs under 1500. I'd run it five minutes and then replace the filter, then repeat for 10 minutes and change the filter again. I'd run another 10 minutes then cut that third filter open and check for contamination. If contamination is minimal, I'd then do an oil change with 10W30, drive 100 miles and change the filter again. I'd drive it easy, and keep an eye on the oil pressure guage. If you see it flickering two or three pounds I'd take that as indication that the filter is clogging enough that a significant amount of oil is making it through the bypass. Time for another filter. Through all of this, I'd drive the car easy and use conventional oil instead of the expensive synthetic (assuming you are only trying to make it a few thousand miles before a rebuild. If your repair holds up, you can always switch to synthetic and delay the rebuild to a more opportune time.)

Having said all of this, with the amount of visible metal on the old oil, I'd have checked every rod bearing before wasting time mail ordering parts. Although number one is the most logical bearing to fail due to oil starvation, I have seen other rods fail. If the rods and mains are good, then the cam bearings are highly suspect. Not knowing the history on the motor, it is hard to speculate on what could have caused a cam bearing problem. Maybe stiffer valve springs and an agressive cam grind by a previous owner? Hard to say, but it seems like when cam bearings wear at a normal rate, varnish fills in the resulting void on the upper half of the bearing, so guessing the failure path is anyone's guess if the lower end checks out OK. I'd even inspect the cylinder bores and piston skirts from below for signs of damage. A connecting rod doesn't have to be bent much to wear a piston skirt and/or stress a rod bearing to the point of shedding metal. I hate to sould like all doom and gloom, but unless you spot clear evidence of metal on metal wear, an oil pump and new inserts is unlikily to solve anything. That metal came from somewhere...

I know you have already ordered parts, (I just stumbled across this thread today) but you will need an oil pump driveshaft that has a metal sleeve on the pump end. The standard shaft has a plastic sleeve that usually crumbles over time, or breaks when you remove the pump.

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

Good eyes! There's little or no varnish on the underside of the piston or on the cast iron of the block, so maybe there was a rebuild in the not too distance past? Is this a manual trans car? The outer surface of the thrust face on the rear main looks like it has a gap and significant wear in the pic of the cap off of the engine (although that wouldn't cause dropping oil pressure - unless the drop is due to a clogged filter.) I see some red lint from a cheap shop rag in the picture. That lint will clog a filter also, especially an auto trans filter (I have that on good authority)

 

Thanks, I'll keep that mind for in the future. Unfortunately I had to buy my bearings last Sunday before I left for vacation (I just got back) so I ordered the standard size set.

 

Jake,
I wish I could tell you. I bought the car on non-op to fix it up from someone not very technically-minded who wasn't the original owner so I'm a little spotty on the vehicle history.
I wouldn't be surprised if the pan had been dropped before - the previous owner had a lot of work done to it.

 

Thanks! Ever since I dropped the pan I've been wondering about that!

Thanks for the input and the detailed instructions. I appreciate the help.

Normally, that would make sense, but I was leaving on vacation for a week so there was no waiting involved. Having to leave for vacation was also a limiting factor in me being able to check all the bearings. I figured for $30 since I already had the pan down I might as well replace them.

Yeah, I have heard that from several people. But sadly I can't do the cam bearings from below.

I don't believe the previous owner had any "performance" work done. Just maintenance.

The pistons looked good inside (to my inexperienced eye, at least). I could see the machining marks but no scratches.
There was a problem with gas washing the cylinders that could have caused wear there though.
The metal stayed in suspension for a long time and was nonmagnetic leading me to believe it was solely bearing material. And I appreciate any realistic point of view, doom and gloom or not.

I figured this one out on my own. I'm learning! I heard local auto parts stores or a dealership have the sleeves, and ordering one online was going to complicate things (long story). Wait - are you saying I have to replace the driveshaft too?

Thanks, will do! And thanks again for the info!

 

The previous owner didn't mention anything about a rebuild. He listed specific things like a new radiator, clutch, heater core, etc. so I think a rebuild would have come up. But then again, you never know.
Yep, it has the ZF 6-speed.
So, what does the wear on the thrust face mean for me?
Guilty. I wiped it off with a shop towel before I plastigaged. Thanks for the tip; I'll clean it off.

 

Okay, here's the plan.
1. Replace rod bearings, one at a time.
- Remove old cap.
- Replace bearing in cap.
- Plastigage bearing to make sure clearance is okay.
- Grease the bearing? Not sure what to use for this.
- Reinstall cap.
- Repeat for each rod bearing cap.

2. Replace main bearings, also one at a time.
- Remove cap.
- Roll out upper half of bearing.
- Grease new upper half and roll it in.
- Replace bearing in cap.
- Plastigage bearing to make sure clearance is okay.
- Grease the bearing (again, not sure about this one).
- Reinstall cap.
- Repeat for each main bearing cap.

3. Replace oil pump: I'm looking for anything I'd need to do besides swapping the pickup to the new pump and slapping it in. I've heard reference to a need to bend the pickup tube because of the larger size of the HV pump or a need to weld the tube to the pump?

 

Seem to be making a good effort. I think you have a good shot at success. Dont worry about the cam bearings. They were likely replaced when the motor was bored out. Mine have 170,000 miles and I have great oil pressure.