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Well after many years of venerable service on road courses I decided to retire my stock 350 short block from my '91 this winter and build a 400. I used all the top end equipment, including the mini-ram and AFR Eliminator 195 heads from the 350. This is primarily a road race style track car only being driven on the roads for tuning and driving back and forth to track days. As I was trying to plan my build I found it helpful to have dyno figures available so now that I have some for mine I thought I would share. As a full recap here is the rundown on the equipment:
Controller:
Holley HP EFI controller - love this controller, BTW
Top end/valvetrain:
Stock throttle body and air cleaner
TPIS Mini-Ram intake
36 lb/hr injectors
Small Cap HEI distributor
AFR 195 Eliminator Heads - non-ported (65 cc chambers)
Scorpion 1.6 Roller Rockers
Comp Cams High-Tech Pushrods
LS7 style roller lifters
Jones Racing Cam 232/236 @ .050 0.576/0.576 lift w/1.6 rockers
Bottom End:
Dart SHP 1-piece rear main Block (4.125" Bore with 350 Size main Journals)
SCAT Forged crank (3.75" stroke)
SCAT Pro-Comp 6" Forged Rods (2-ICR6000-7/16) with ARP 2000 bolts
Wiseco Pistons (2618 Forged aluminum) (-12.5cc dish) - yields 10.5 CR with other parts
Champ Road Race Oil Pan
Melling standard volume shark tooth pump with lower pressure (60 psi) spring installed
Chassis Dyno Results are pasted below for this combination. This equates to somewhere around 520 to 540 at the crank, depending upon what loss you think the drivetrain contributes.RPM HP TQ
Graph attached below.
Observations
Optimum AFR was approximately 12.7:1
Optimum timing advance was around 34-35 degrees
Car now makes more power at the rear wheels than a C6 Z06 LS7 - one of my main goals was to attain C6 Z06 performance in a C4 Z07 car.
More torque than the LS7 down low and matched HP at the top
Stock throttle body with stock air filter made 22 more HP than a 52mm aftermarket Holley throttle body with no air filter at all
Car rides on the 160 thermostat while driving around town or on the highway - Dewitts radiator, BTW. Runs about 210 on the track lap after lap - no overheating like the old SBC 400's due to a completely different cooling system in the Dart block.
i got the whole short block kit from Skip White Racing for the best price around. They even beat summit on 90% of their parts.
Anyway, I just wanted to share this in case anybody is looking at a similar combination.
Nice build. I have pretty much the same motor; World Products block, 12.5 compression, a little more cam, miniram and I have run 10.20's in the quarter. If you can get your car to hook, it should be in the 10's. I had a C6Z06 with boltons putting out your hp and ran mid 11's with street tires.
Thanks for all the comments, guys. I was a little surprised at the throttle body being a positive difference for the factory one on back to back tests - literally 15 minutes to change it out between tests. Also, it seemed like the car liked a timing of about 34 degrees BTDC. I was thinking it would probably be a little higher, so I was running 38 degrees coming in but we saw no difference in power going down to 34. I also had the AFR at 12.7 coming in. We moved it up to 13 with no effect, so we set it back to 12.7 since the engine lives a hard life on the road course. We didn't try 12.5 or anything like that, as there didn't really seem to be a need to do so. So at the end of the session I left with the same amount of power I came in with, but a little bit more knowledge
--Calvin
Agree with those above: that's a nice engine combo. With that wide torque curve it should be a wonderfully flexible track engine on road courses. Enjoy!
More head and intake would have been a real plus. It runs out of air pretty early on. 4100 is way too low for peak torque. It deserved 11.4 CR at least 210 ported heads with 2.175 intake valves and headers to suit. The mini ram is getting pretty small as well.
Awesome numbers but still lots to be had with a better cylinder head, probably an easy ~30 rwtq and ~50 rwhp on the table. I suspect the OP wanted that tq curve though for road racing and also didn't mind not having to purchase new cylinder heads.
My little roll racing '84 w/ a LQ9, w/ 260cc LS3 heads and a small 220/224 .575/.575 cam makes very similar peak power and just barely gets edged out by a car length or so in a straight line by stock (afaik) C6Z06s. I lost all 6 races to two cars but it most certainly made me feel really warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I am a tune or cam away from being able to pull a C6Z06 on the highway.
Awesome numbers but still lots to be had with a better cylinder head, probably an easy ~30 rwtq and ~50 rwhp on the table. I suspect the OP wanted that tq curve though for road racing and also didn't mind not having to purchase new cylinder heads.
My little roll racing '84 w/ a LQ9, w/ 260cc LS3 heads and a small 220/224 .575/.575 cam makes very similar peak power and just barely gets edged out by a car length or so in a straight line by stock (afaik) C6Z06s. I lost all 6 races to two cars but it most certainly made me feel really warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I am a tune or cam away from being able to pull a C6Z06 on the highway.
Thanks for the post OP.
I see that extra HP almost free with no loss in low end or at least low end for a sports car for virtually free when buying the 195 heards. I am betting the upgrade to 210 or 215 was very minimal at the time. If a 6 speed track car drive through 3000 rpm so fast it does not matter and should never see it again.
Your making around 500 chp given 15% drive loss which is about right for AFR 195's on a 400. Are these the street ports or comp ports?
I've seen plenty stock C6 Z06's in person and all dynoed around 440-455 rwhp bone stock then add exhaust, cold air and a tune and your over 500 rwhp. Its very hard for a SBC Gen 1 to compete with an LS engine.
Your table top TQ curve is what you want. My 421 in my 1988 Corvette made 475 rwtq with AFR 195 comp ports.
Last edited by 88BlackZ-51; 08-02-2018 at 09:00 AM.
Sure about that #? Have no problem walking C6Z & doubt Im making that kinda power.(500rwhp)could be wrong though
When you getting another ride RIcky?
Yes. The LS7's are very strong in stock trim. Last one I saw made 475 wheel with a CAI and a tune. They are light and rev'
What's up Ronny? Still have the CTS-V. Just put a bigger charger on and installed headers last week. Dyno tune coming up next week. Drove a C7 Z06 last night and the car was quick but had zero soul.
Sure about that #? Have no problem walking C6Z & doubt Im making that kinda power.(500rwhp)could be wrong though
When you getting another ride RIcky?
What is your setup and what kind of power do you think you are making?
Maybe I am wrong but from what I have read, the C6Z and C4 have very similar drag coefficients and curb weights. Meaning that a C4 would need at least equal but most likely more power than the C6Z in order to out run it.
Maybe I am wrong but from what I have read, the C6Z and C4 have very similar drag coefficients and curb weights. Meaning that a C4 would need at least equal but most likely more power than the C6Z in order to out run it.
The C6Z is lighter than most stock C4s - it only weighs about 3150lbs. But while its drag coefficient may be similar (I don't know), it has a crap ton more frontal area because it's a lot wider and has wider tires. To get total drag, you multiply the drag coefficient by the frontal area. So the C6Z will have a lot more total drag than a stock C4. All that said, I've wondered the same thing. My C4 probably has at most 425rwhp, but it can pull on a stock C6Z from a roll.
The C6Z is lighter than most stock C4s - it only weighs about 3150lbs. But while its drag coefficient may be similar (I don't know), it has a crap ton more frontal area because it's a lot wider and has wider tires. To get total drag, you multiply the drag coefficient by the frontal area. So the C6Z will have a lot more total drag than a stock C4. All that said, I've wondered the same thing. My C4 probably has at most 425rwhp, but it can pull on a stock C6Z from a roll.
Yep. Whatever extra drag the C6Z06 might have is probably negated in a drag/roll race with the lighter weight. I think with equal power they would be pretty damn close to even.
If you are pulling a C6Z with any certainty, you most likely have 425rwhp if not well more.
I need to strap mine to a dyno and figure it out. All I have done is used my dragy device to get some times while assuming my weight is near 3500 with my 265lb self in the car.
It will trap 90-92 mph in the 1/8 and 115-117 in the 1/4 when I bog it out of the hole w/ 2.3-2.4 sixty foot times. I speculate that on a sticky track with a good launch I could run a low low 12 second pass.
My best with the dragy is a 12.84 @ 115 w/ a 2.3 sixty foot.
I have only had my car since February but I have probably been in about 200 roll races. I have put 14k+ miles on the car already.
I know it is faster than Scat Packs, Coyotes, Camaro SSs, C5s, C5Zs, C6s, C7s, a couple GTRs, 2018 M3, 2016 i8, 2016 AMG C63 and a plethora of other vehicles.
I know it isn't faster than the 2 C6Zs I raced, a GTR, a SS Camaro with a kit and some crazy **** Evo.
Maybe I am wrong but from what I have read, the C6Z and C4 have very similar drag coefficients and curb weights. Meaning that a C4 would need at least equal but most likely more power than the C6Z in order to out run it.
Coefficient is only part of the needed info;
Originally Posted by MatthewMiller
while its drag coefficient may be similar (I don't know), it has a crap ton more frontal area because it's a lot wider and has wider tires. To get total drag, you multiply the drag coefficient by the frontal area. So the C6Z will have a lot more total drag than a stock C4. All that said, I've wondered the same thing. My C4 probably has at most 425rwhp, but it can pull on a stock C6Z from a roll.
^That.
I've never found drag coefficient info for the C7Z, but it's very hard to believe it's lower than a C4; all. the vents, scoops and plastic doo-dads? The flared fenders and wider tires? The duck bill rear spoiler? Maybe...but I doubt it.
07-28-2018, 01:44 AM
400 Dyno Results
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