I don't know if it's available online or not but watched a program "Modern Marvels" on Quest TV yesterday on gasoline. The way they ship gas via a pipeline is very interesting. Unless it's a dedicated pipeline (eg. Chevron from start to end), everything is the same regardless of who gets it from the terminal until the brand additives are included in the tank truck.
If you get the chance, it's worth the time to watch it.

 

There are a few gas stations that sell 100+ octane at the pump in the burbs around Chicago.

 

That is true if you are talking about a vehicle that was designed to run on ethanol blended fuel, or it is a flex fuel vehicle. The ECM can tell the difference between the fuels and adjusts timing accordingly. It also takes a higher volume of ethanol fuel to create the same power as a single gallon of unblended gasoline.

The following are a few quotes from a consumer research site.

"In theory gas without ethanol is better for your car than gas with ethanol added. Ethanol creates 34% less energy than non-ethanol gasoline per gallon. This translates to a loss in fuel economy of up to 3-8 miles per gallon. The higher the ethanol concentration, the higher the fuel economy loss."

"Although these blended fuels burn cleaner than pure gasoline, the ethanol absorbs moisture from the air. Over time, that water can separate and drop, along with ethanol, to the bottom of your fuel tank. This is when problems like corrosion, stalling and engine damage start."

Jared

 

I guess I drive it enough that I'm not sure how much of an issue it is. I suppose if it sits for a long while usually, maybe. Not sure how long it sits before it does become a major issue but maybe a dose of HEET would help if it is going to sit for a long time.

Me neither but I usually don't have older stuff. I try get rid of them before they go too old and become a PITA to get fixed.

Actually, IMO, it doesn't do what you said. It lowers emissions so if you run the motor for 5 hours with ethanol and without later, it runs cleaner with ethanol. However, because it does less work with ethanol, to get the same amount of work done, you burn more which might deplete what you saved in emissions with ethanol. So I think it helps if you are just running a motor but if you are trying to get something done, probably not.

I'd be willing to put up more for it IF it turns out that I could benefit from it. I do drive my cars often enough to burn out all the gas or at least, most of the tank since I run it to as far empty as I can get. My issue is convenience. If I have to drive 20 minutes away to a place I don't go to or have to only get it at certain hours, I'd pass.

 

Does it say that at a certain point of time, it occurs? IOW, is that time 2 weeks, 2 months, 6 months, 3 years or what? Also, how much before it becomes an issue?

 

Always thought this was funny, sort of. People are dead set against running gasoline with alcohol in it....but then dump additives such as HEET in their gas tank.

 

Most gas stations today only sell E10 (90% gasoline 10% ethanol), not actual gasoline. If you are running a stock 80s vehicle I think the best thing to look for is actual 100% gasoline. If you can find that I would use that over name brand.

I do have one phillips 66 near me that still sells what they call "sugar free" 93 octane 100% gasoline. I use that when I can. I use 93 octane E10 too when I have to, it is not like I won't use that ever but when I can I get actual gasoline.

There are two concerns with using an alcohol-based fuel in an older vehicle, first they are far more prone to vapor lock. This is not generally a concern in corvettes with the high fuel pressure. The bigger concern is the alcohol is harder on rubber seals in the fuel system.

 

Know what is more funny? I don't really think we need it even when we had a deep freeze this year but people were running all over town trying to buy one. I should have bought a bunch and sold it for twice the price if I wasn't too lazy to set up a stand and freeze my *** off trying to sell it.

You got to admit, it does fix a problem

 

Depends on who you are asking ... benefit to you or the corn farmers or the oil companies?

1. The benefit to you is what you actually mentioned in terms of water. The alcohol will absorb water. It won't really attract water, but if water is present in small quantities it will absorb it where gasoline won't. Back in the day we used to put a small amount of alcohol in the boat gas tank when we winterized it. That way if there is condensation or ice that forms in the tank over the winter the alcohol will absorb it and will burn. If you didn't do that the water would never be absorbed by the gas and would usually make it up to the carb where it caused the engine to stall. With FI this isn't much of an issue. It will still be pumped through the fuel systems but it will end up in the combustion chambers and it might run a little rough until it all is burned off but if probably won't stall the vehicle unless there is a whole lot of it.

That is the only benefit I can think of for the buyer. Mileage will suffer like you said. Power will be unchanged because it is the amount of air you take in that determines power output.

2. Benefit to corn farmers - more corn sold

3. Benefit to oil companies. So the oil companies get a subsidy for producing E10 or E85. Alcohol is a lot more expensive than gasoline, so it should cost them more to produce ethanol fuel but uncle Sam subsidiazes it so it costs them less and they can sell it for less and most people buy fuel based on price.

Alcohol will also add knock resistance, meaning there is less petroleum-based knock inhibitors the oil companies will have to add to get a given octane rating.

 

Any car with fuel injection should be fine, I would think? Not just Corvettes. Don't know about the 84 with crossfire since I don't know it's fuel pressure but don't most injectors run pressure north of 30 psi? I would agree that it might be a problem for an old car but the greenie weenies want to see something done so we have to make moves regardless of whether it works or not. I would think the simple fix would be to change the rubber for an ethanol resistant set which might not be a bad idea since the old rubber isn't going to last forever.

 

A boat sits in the water all day long, assuming it is docked for the summer. My car doesn't sit in the lake which is why I am curious how long it has to sit on dry land before it becomes an issue. How much condensate is there really in a 20 gallon tank?

How does the power remain the same and mileage suffer?

 

With all that said, and everybody's opinion expressed, I (the original poster) am going to buy and test two tank fulls worth of this Shell premium gas to see for myself if there's a difference...besides my wallet feeling lighter. To compensate me for the more expensive gas for this test, my results will only be given out on a one to one basis to those that offer $4.

 

We had a gas station near me where the truck put diesel into a gasoline tank. They got sued and offered free repairs to anyone who bought gas there. They were a no-name station of some sort.

 

With what will you use to see if there is a difference? The butt dyno isn't going to pick up much unless it is very drastic.

 

Point? That because a mistake is possible it is highly probable?

 

Oh this is still going on... alright. Good luck with the trial.

 

The two "concerns":
1. NO, and I mean NO EFI car is going to have issues with vapor lock. No way, no how. Nope. And almost no carb'ed car will either. 99% of all "vapor lock" problems are when the real problem was undiagnosed, so "Vapor lock" is blamed. Like VATS when a C4 won't start.
2. That is a concern. My 27 year old car hasn't been affected by that (yet). I'm not that concerned.

 

It could happen. FYI, diesel in a gas car/tank isn't going to hurt much (anything). Just empty out the diesel, fill with gas...drive away. No need to be suing people.

 

The power doesn't remain the same.... not sure where the OP pulled that comment out of.... but it stinks.

The owners manual for my 96 Miata actually states that 10% Ethanol blended gasoline will reduce engine output by 6hp.

I also love how I keep hearing about how ethanol has a higher knock index than regular gas. That is great if your car is set up to run alcohol. My car was built in 1988 when you could still buy 100% gas at 100% of gas stations. That is what it was engineered to run on. My fuel pressure and injector pulse width remains constant. Now I have added 10% alcohol to my gasoline and my fuel pressure and injector pulse width is still the exact same. Gallon for gallon you get reduced mileage and reduced power when you fill up with Ethanol blended gasoline as opposed to 100% gasoline. If you think I am wrong, show me the document that proves I am wrong.

As for your original question about how long it would take for blended gas to absorb water... that depends on a few variables. I guess the worst case scenario would be a car that was parked outdoors in the sun in a humid climate with less than 1/2 tank of fuel for 90 days or so. Even then our fuel systems are return systems and any water absorbed would be pulled through the rail and most of it would be shot back to the tank and evenly distributed amongst the remaining fuel. Those are my thoughts.... not based on any sort of fact. One good rule of thumb is if you are going to park your car for any extended length of time, top off the fuel tank, stabilize the fuel and run it for a few minutes to get the stabilizer to the rail.

Vehicles that would suffer worse would be vehicles like my 06 Durango and my 05 Ram pickup. For some reason Dodge decided not to install any sort of fuel return system. Both are 5.7 Hemi powered and cant speak for other Mopar vehicles with other engines. And then of course outdoor power equipment suffers even worse, chainsaws, hedge trimmers, and other equipment that is stored with fuel in the tank and used very infrequently. All of my tractors, lawn tractors, and other outdoor equipment get ethanol free fuel. I live in the Pacific Northwest right on the coast so we are humid!!

Jared

 

Not sure if it was the "new" Shell 93 but I filled up this morning at $2.839 and it seems to run the same to me. Not sure what all the fuss is about.