Considering that the energy content of ethanol is lower, I'd love to see how you can add a lower number to something and get the same. Just like merging my income with a Billionaire's and coming out the same. Understanding that, I go ahead and do it just for convenience. Convenience of filling up wherever and not having to chain myself to a station. All things else equal, I'd skip ethanol but that little bit of extra isn't worth the effort unless I am racing. IIRC, I had a 5.3 Flex fuel vehicle that I was contemplating running a blower. They warned me that the injectors were bigger since it was FF. That said, with a blower and those injectors, I could never go back to FF since it would be too small now. IIRC.

Assuming the fuel and water mix, not sure how much that is, gets sucked up and decreases performance by just a hair, momentarily, it might mix and dilute in the return. I would think that the dead head fuel systems would not do the same swirling in the tank but unless there is a lot, is the effect even noticeable? IDK, hence the question.

Might be better to drain the tank for outdoor equipment if you don't use it over the winter.

 

As I have said, unless it is a radical change, the butt dyno is notorious for glossing over anything else.

 

I am going to correct some disinformation in this post about E10 fuel. E10 fuel will not cause a power loss in a car. This is just a math problem and after you look at facts you can determine facts from fiction.

100% gasoline contains 114,000 BTU/Gallon
100% Ethonal contains 76,100 BTU/Gallon

E10 contains 114,000-3800 = 110,200 BTU/Gallon or .9677 energy constant vs gasoline

Know lets consider fuel economy, E10 while having less BTU per gallon runs at a richer AFR so it burns more fuel per mile traved

This is the math to prove this point.

E10 AFR = 14.13
100% gasoline AFR = 14.7

(14.7-14.13)/14.7 = .0388 or 3.88% increase in the amount of fuel used by burning E10 based on the fuels required AFR

So that means E10 will cause a fuel drop of roughly 3.8% compared to 100% gasoline (Very minor change) if your car gets 20 MPG on 100% gasoline it will get 19.22 MPG on E10 (I am neglecting the slight power increase which may reduce the 3.8% to near 3.4%)

Know lets consider power, E10 while having less BTU per gallon runs at a richer AFR so it burns more fuel per mile traved, that means the power is actually slightly higher on E10 fuel vs straight 100% gasoline. (It is buring more fuel AT WOT when compared to gasoline, that is where the additional BTU's come from)

So that works out to this 114000 x .9667 E10 energy content x 1.0388 increase in amount of fuel burned to hit correct AFR. This means the engery released in a engine using E10 when compared to straight gasoline is 114,479 BTU E10 vs 114,000 100% gasoline.

So an engine running on E10 will use about 3.8% more fuel but make about .4% more power then gasoline.

All fuel injected cars from the factory are at least 3% rich at WOT when compared to the ideal AFR so running E10 on a open loop WOT factory tune will not cost you any power and will probably add you some slight amount of power. No matter what anyone tells you these are the facts based on the math around the discussion.

All fuel injected cars use a O2 sensor to correct fueling at the O2 sensor can usually correct at least +-15% and many times +-25%. What this means is that when running E10 or 100% gasoline the 3.8% change in AFR is well withinn the range of the O2 correction so you will not have any issues with engine drivebility or power. The O2 corrections are added to the LTFT (Long term fuel trims) and these changes are added in to the WOT fueling so the engine when running E10 or 100% gasoline will still be optimized and make the correct power.

As a gut check you can look at the power output of my flex fuel 2009 5.3 truck. GM rates the engine at 315 HP on gasoline and 326 HP on E85 (Somone was looking for documented proof) As proven by math every 10% ethonal amount will add .4% in engine power so .4% x 8.5 (E85 fuel) = 3.4% power increase by running E85

315 HP x 1.034% = 325.7 HP or 326 HP for my truck on E85 as GM stated and proved by math.

E10 will not cost you HP and it will only drop fuel economy my 3.8% probably more like 3.4%

One additional data point, (I work part time at a chassis dyno shop) My truck on gasoline made 277 RWHP and on E85 it made 287 RWHP on back to back testing on the same dyno, I was curious to see if it actually made the additional power on E85

 

The power increase is true. It isn't on a carb though but that's for an entirely different reason. I couldn't tell a power difference on my 04 but I picked up something like 2 mpg highway (19.8 to ~22) switching between the two which shouldn't be possible... but I had months of driving the same route to prove to myself that the deviation from the average was .5... meaning that there was some other factor going on. It just made no sense and was confirmed on 3 separate occasions... and yes, you will tend to make more power if you burn more fuel (to a point) because science... (conservation of energy, residuals, entropy, etc...)

In short... well put.

 

$2.839??? Add a dollar to that......in Lake County Illinois. I live in Chicago and work in Gurnee, IL I haven't bought gas in the city since 1999. I checked my gas buddy app. Shell premium in the loop is $4.99 a gallon at one station.

 

That's IL for you. Not sure what you are getting for it but hope you get something for all the extras. Is it because of taxes directly from the government or indirectly?

 

It's a "Chicago Tax". They throw extra taxes on everything because we have suburbanites, and people from IN and WI that come in for the weekend. I spend most of my money in the burbs and southern WI so it really has little to no effect on me. The only benefit I personally have is the snow is cleared off the streets in no time flat. I can't say that about Lake County.

 

Oh Snap! There isn't even regular unleaded 87 octane in southern California for that low price!!! Right now most of the Shell Premium 92 octane is at least $4 a gallon here. If I were you, I'd run exclusively that Shell 93, can't hurt.

 

Isn't it better to compare with a local price as opposed to something too far away? My same house in a highly dense part of the world, population wise might be 5 times what I paid.

Only if someone is paying for it. That is a perfect way people sucker you into something. Make it cheap enough and people will say "It's cheap enough. It can't hurt. I'm not out much if it doesn't.".

 

No gas can hurt. He can't got wrong!

 

Only two stations in my area are the Shell and a Chevron. They are usually the same price or close. Since I have a Shell Rewards credit card that gives me another 10 cents off the price of premium needless to say that is what I use.

 

Wrong. I have some gas I forgot about for a while. It smells like turpentine. Also, depending on how we define "hurt", where it can mean your wallet, it might.

 

Context, Aklim. The OP and this thread is talking about pump gas, from a retail gas station, here.

Not the **** you left in your chain saw for the past 5 years.

 

2 years and it's for sale. Ebay special. Slightly used gas. 1 owner, well aged.

 

I've run some pretty old crap in my daily. 5 years smells about right.

 

Got some Chinese gas for you. WY Too Yung at 2 years old.

 

I'm aging a 55 gallon drum in my shop at work right now. Been here since last summer. No one wants it. I'll have to start pumping it into the 'Vette Kart.

 

I've got about 5 gallons I've been sitting on that's been around since gloria. I'll trade you.

 

Not sure about an 84, but some TBI systems run about 5-10 PSI which would still be prone to vapor lock. Most multi-point systems do run north of 30 and should be fine as long as the fuel pump is in the tank.

 

First question: Not sure what you are asking. I have never heard of ethanol fuel dropping the water out of the fuel, I guess it would if it was saturated with more water than it could hold in solution. To be honest when I have used it for a boat it is for the opposite reason - to remove water from the fuel tank. Like you said it is a boat ... water gets places. You can also use it for the same reason in a car if you get water in the tank. I believe that is what HEET is, just alcohol of some sort or another

Second question: Your power is dictated by the amount of air you can breathe, with a given amount of air you run richer to maintain stochastic (and the same power level) with E10. So you are adding more fuel to maintain the same power. In closed loop operation your car will adjust for E10 based on the O2 sensor and you will get less mileage because you will be using more fuel. At WOT you are running rich already and have more fuel than you can fully burn for the amount of air. That is true with either E10 or gas and E10 is actually closer to stochastic than gasoline would be at the same ratio.