Shell's new premium gas
Pro
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 532
Likes: 104
The two "concerns":
1. NO, and I mean NO EFI car is going to have issues with vapor lock. No way, no how. Nope. And almost no carb'ed car will either. 99% of all "vapor lock" problems are when the real problem was undiagnosed, so "Vapor lock" is blamed. Like VATS when a C4 won't start.
2. That is a concern. My 27 year old car hasn't been affected by that (yet). I'm not that concerned.
1. NO, and I mean NO EFI car is going to have issues with vapor lock. No way, no how. Nope. And almost no carb'ed car will either. 99% of all "vapor lock" problems are when the real problem was undiagnosed, so "Vapor lock" is blamed. Like VATS when a C4 won't start.
2. That is a concern. My 27 year old car hasn't been affected by that (yet). I'm not that concerned.
Any car with a suction fuel pump (sucks fuel out of the tank) can suffer vapor lock, and there are fuel injected cars that do this. There are also TBI cars that run low fuel pressures. I said in the post you quoted that it was not generally a problem for Corvettes.
You live in Utah, I would imagine most carbed cars there won't suffer from vapor lock there. Vapor lock is a real thing in the southeast in the summer with carburetors though. I agree generally not on EFI cars, but my 64 Buick would regularly suffer from it, not only vaporlock but actual boilover in the carb where the gasoline literally boils out while the car is sitting and the carberetor is dry. The pavement you are driving on can get in exces of 150 on a hot summer day, with the car running hot and the fuel lines literally 6 inches or so from that pavement.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,475
Likes: 3,291
From: Hartford WI
Pump in our out of the tank should not matter. What difference would that make?
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,475
Likes: 3,291
From: Hartford WI
First question: Not sure what you are asking. I have never heard of ethanol fuel dropping the water out of the fuel, I guess it would if it was saturated with more water than it could hold in solution. To be honest when I have used it for a boat it is for the opposite reason - to remove water from the fuel tank. Like you said it is a boat ... water gets places. You can also use it for the same reason in a car if you get water in the tank. I believe that is what HEET is, just alcohol of some sort or another
Second question: Your power is dictated by the amount of air you can breathe, with a given amount of air you run richer to maintain stochastic (and the same power level) with E10. So you are adding more fuel to maintain the same power. In closed loop operation your car will adjust for E10 based on the O2 sensor and you will get less mileage because you will be using more fuel. At WOT you are running rich already and have more fuel than you can fully burn for the amount of air. That is true with either E10 or gas and E10 is actually closer to stochastic than gasoline would be at the same ratio.
Second question: Your power is dictated by the amount of air you can breathe, with a given amount of air you run richer to maintain stochastic (and the same power level) with E10. So you are adding more fuel to maintain the same power. In closed loop operation your car will adjust for E10 based on the O2 sensor and you will get less mileage because you will be using more fuel. At WOT you are running rich already and have more fuel than you can fully burn for the amount of air. That is true with either E10 or gas and E10 is actually closer to stochastic than gasoline would be at the same ratio.
Yes but what I am saying is that there is only so much energy in a gallon of gas vs (90% gas and 10% ethanol). Again, if the ECM is tuned for higher say E85, as an extreme, you could make more power. But if it is not, isn't the maximum power available going to be less with ethanol? You can't get more energy out than there is, can you?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 6,943
Likes: 1,490
From: New Jersey
Talking about phase separation where if there is enough water, it could be an issue.
Yes but what I am saying is that there is only so much energy in a gallon of gas vs (90% gas and 10% ethanol). Again, if the ECM is tuned for higher say E85, as an extreme, you could make more power. But if it is not, isn't the maximum power available going to be less with ethanol? You can't get more energy out than there is, can you?
Yes but what I am saying is that there is only so much energy in a gallon of gas vs (90% gas and 10% ethanol). Again, if the ECM is tuned for higher say E85, as an extreme, you could make more power. But if it is not, isn't the maximum power available going to be less with ethanol? You can't get more energy out than there is, can you?
if you were somehow able to use E10 more efficiently than pure gas then sure, you'd get more power out of it.... less goes to waste. But drop for drop you have less available energy. The big reason E85 makes more power is that it just burns better. It has less energy content but it's somewhat more efficient. 
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,475
Likes: 3,291
From: Hartford WI
I'll bite. Which ones? Besides TBI, that is.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 6,943
Likes: 1,490
From: New Jersey
The following chart... quick google... is a P vs T diagram for saturation pressure of gasoline. Basically, if you're above the pressure at that temp... it's a liquid, and if you're below it, it's a vapor.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 21,543
Likes: 3,216
From: Park City Utah
Any car with a suction fuel pump (sucks fuel out of the tank) can suffer vapor lock, and there are fuel injected cars that do this. There are also TBI cars that run low fuel pressures. I said in the post you quoted that it was not generally a problem for Corvettes.
You live in Utah, I would imagine most carbed cars there won't suffer from vapor lock there. Vapor lock is a real thing in the southeast in the summer with carburetors though. I agree generally not on EFI cars, but my 64 Buick would regularly suffer from it, not only vaporlock but actual boilover in the carb where the gasoline literally boils out while the car is sitting and the carberetor is dry. The pavement you are driving on can get in exces of 150 on a hot summer day, with the car running hot and the fuel lines literally 6 inches or so from that pavement.
You live in Utah, I would imagine most carbed cars there won't suffer from vapor lock there. Vapor lock is a real thing in the southeast in the summer with carburetors though. I agree generally not on EFI cars, but my 64 Buick would regularly suffer from it, not only vaporlock but actual boilover in the carb where the gasoline literally boils out while the car is sitting and the carberetor is dry. The pavement you are driving on can get in exces of 150 on a hot summer day, with the car running hot and the fuel lines literally 6 inches or so from that pavement.
NO TBI car is going to have vapor lock. Pump is in the tank, fuel circulates, it's under pressure....not happening
Utah is high elevation. How does that preclude it's cars from vapor lock?
Pavement here gets hot too, FYI.
I know that in CAN happen on a carb'ed suction pump car with a poorly routed fuel line. Who on this forum has that scenario? So why are we talking about this non-issue on a thread about some gasoline that Shell is baffling us with marketing?
.
Last edited by Tom400CFI; May 30, 2019 at 11:09 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 21,543
Likes: 3,216
From: Park City Utah
Well guys, I filled up with Shell "V-Power" premium gasoline today...and HOLY ****! WHAT A DIFFERENCE! I'm going to have to use this stuff from now on! Let me tell you all of the benefits I realized from filling my car w/Shell V-Power Premium gasoline:
1. It's been raining and snowing (yes, still snowing) a TON here. Today...not a cloud in the sky. A perfect, spring, blue-bird day!
2. Every single traffic light on my commute to work was GREEN!! I didn't have to stop for a single red traffic light. Amazing
3. The birds were all singing
4. My staff were fantastic today; everyone got right to work, did their tasks...they were pleasant. I tell ya...there is something to this stuff!
5. I got the best parking spot at work.
So....I guess I was wrong in my earlier posts....Shell V-Power is the shiznits. The stuff REALLY works. I'll try it again tomorrow.
1. It's been raining and snowing (yes, still snowing) a TON here. Today...not a cloud in the sky. A perfect, spring, blue-bird day!
2. Every single traffic light on my commute to work was GREEN!! I didn't have to stop for a single red traffic light. Amazing
3. The birds were all singing
4. My staff were fantastic today; everyone got right to work, did their tasks...they were pleasant. I tell ya...there is something to this stuff!
5. I got the best parking spot at work.
So....I guess I was wrong in my earlier posts....Shell V-Power is the shiznits. The stuff REALLY works. I'll try it again tomorrow.
Corvette Stories
The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts
Top 10 Most Expensive Corvettes Ever Sold on Bring A Trailer
Brett Foote
10 Things Every Corvette Owner Needs (2026 Edition)
Michael S. Palmer
8 Most "Only Corvette Owners Understand" Quirks and Problems
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Reasons the C6 Z06 is Still A Performance Benchmark After 20 Years
Joe Kucinski
How Much Horsepower Every Corvette Engine "LOST" in 1972
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 DOs and DON'Ts for Protecting Your Convertible Top!
Michael S. Palmer
Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!
Joe Kucinski
150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter
Joe Kucinski
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time
Verdad Gallardo
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 21,543
Likes: 3,216
From: Park City Utah
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,475
Likes: 3,291
From: Hartford WI
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 21,543
Likes: 3,216
From: Park City Utah
IDK....Don't need any help in that area. Since you mention it though, I recall that there WERE a lot more hot girls who seemed to be attracted to/interested in me yesterday, when I was "on" V-Power. Hmmm.....
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,475
Likes: 3,291
From: Hartford WI