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84 Corvette Journey

 
Old 06-17-2019, 01:40 AM
  #41  
GregMartin
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Default EBL Flash II Tuning

Ok here is my latest up date.
The car is running quite decently now, my VE table seem ok and they will have to do until I get a WB O2 sensor installed. I also got some help with the SA latency table from Buccaneer this configuration appears to be working much better that the one from the 3006 bin file. (I have a Davis DUI distributor). I revved it past 5730rpm on the weekend and it felt strong.

I have been dealing with a cold start issue. The car was behaving poorly first thing in the morning missing and backfiring, It was independent of whether the car was in closed loop or not and only seemed to happen after the first start in morning. ben73 suggested that it was probably an enrichment issue because the long runners of the Renegade intake would be quite cold first thing in the morning and fuel was probably dropping out of suspension when it came in contact with that cold metal. He suggested that I look at the Choke AFR vs CTS table in my tune and richen up the mix during choke conditions. This tuning change has significantly improved the behaviour of the car after a cold start.

So the next things I need to address are the digital dash which should be calculating mpg but currently is not and getting the OD to work with my Doug Nash 4+3. In both cases I think I have the config right but I must be missing something.

I will post more details on tuning the EBL Flash II when I have a better handle on what works and what doesn't.
Regards Greg

Last edited by GregMartin; 06-17-2019 at 02:18 AM.
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Old 06-17-2019, 12:56 PM
  #42  
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What did you end up using for the sa latency?
I also have a dui ignition setup.
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Old 06-17-2019, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Gibbles View Post
What did you end up using for the sa latency?
I also have a dui ignition setup.
This is a copy of Buccaneers SA latency table which I am now using' seems a lot better than the one from the 3006 bin. Buccaneer has also been in contact with DUI but as yet they have provided nothing.


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Old 06-17-2019, 08:27 PM
  #44  
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Those look close to the settings...
I looked again in tuner pro, looks like i told you wrong.
3001!

Those settings are close, real close.

There is a thread about sa latency on the thirdgen prom forum, talks a little about the dui module stating its very close to the original corvette module

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Old 06-17-2019, 08:44 PM
  #45  
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3001



A slight edit I made, purely to tone down the drone I was getting...

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Old 06-17-2019, 08:48 PM
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My sa table



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Old 06-17-2019, 08:53 PM
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Also, for the sa latency.
Increase the number to add timing, subtract to remove..
I'm sure there is more to it... But it helped take the edge off of some midrange screaming drone I was getting by subtracting a little..
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Old 06-18-2019, 12:02 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Gibbles View Post
3001



A slight edit I made, purely to tone down the drone I was getting...
Without looking up the old SA Lat table, that looks like a small cap latency vs large cap.
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Old 06-18-2019, 04:48 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Gibbles View Post
Those look close to the settings...
I looked again in tuner pro, looks like i told you wrong.
3001!

Those settings are close, real close.

There is a thread about sa latency on the thirdgen prom forum, talks a little about the dui module stating its very close to the original corvette module
Yep you said 3006 anyway all good.
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Old 06-18-2019, 04:56 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Buccaneer View Post
Without looking up the old SA Lat table, that looks like a small cap latency vs large cap.
That table is used in the 2023 bin for a 5.7 1 ton truck.
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Old 06-18-2019, 05:14 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by Gibbles View Post
My sa table


Wow you have quite a bit of advance in certain areas there. I am using the SA main table from the 3006 bin file. I get the occasional knock maybe 30 or 40 count on a half hour drive and they seem the occur when I back off or at low RPM where the advance is low. So I suspect that they are false knocks. The count has reduced significantly now I am using Buccaneers latency table.
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Old 06-18-2019, 05:39 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by GregMartin View Post
Wow you have quite a bit of advance in certain areas there. I am using the SA main table from the 3006 bin file. I get the occasional knock maybe 30 or 40 count on a half hour drive and they seem the occur when I back off or at low RPM where the advance is low. So I suspect that they are false knocks. The count has reduced significantly now I am using Buccaneers latency table.
What is your max advance on this table? Your 95-100 map at 3,600 and up is pretty light IMO. You should be ALL in by then all the way to redline. You are only at 29.8*.

Last edited by Buccaneer; 06-18-2019 at 05:42 AM. Reason: wrong reply
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Old 06-18-2019, 06:01 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Gibbles View Post
Also, for the sa latency.
Increase the number to add timing, subtract to remove..
I'm sure there is more to it... But it helped take the edge off of some midrange screaming drone I was getting by subtracting a little..
Hey Gibbles
A couple of quick questions. Does you digital dash work? I don't get any average or instantaneous mpg but I do get range and the upshift indication when I hit my shift light limit. I have a Corvette digital cluster book by Gordon Killebrew and according to that there is a data stream so I just wondered if you get mpg info?
My settings are

Option Word 3 - Bit 7 - DglDh flag set
Then this parameter for the injector flow rate:
DGD - Injector Flow Scalar set to 64.9

Also do you have any issues with cold running? My car starts straight up and idles smoothly but when I set off on cold mornings it splutters and backfires until it is warm enough to display oil temp. I increased the choke AFR vs CTS values to enrichen it when the choke conditions are met. This has improved the situation a little but it is still not quite right. We are not talking about real cold conditions either, overnight temperature here don't go much lower than 5DegC (so about 40DegF)
so I would assume that your car would be exposed to these kind of condition fairly regularly.

Also is there anyone out there running a 4+3 with the EBL Flash II. I have set up the TCC to engage the OD as per Rbob's instructions but it is not working.
My set up is as follows:

Scalars:
TCC - Lock Enable CTS: -40
TCC - Forced Lock: 255
TCC - LoGr Max TPS% Coast Unlock: 0
TCC - LoGr MPH OK to Lock: 255
TCC - LoGr Min TPS% Coast Unlock: 0
TCC - LoGr MPH to Unlock: 255
TCC - HiGr Max TPS% Coast Unlock: 0
TCC - HiGr MPH OK to Lock: 44 (use to set minimum MPH/KPH for OD)
TCC - HiGr Min TPS% Coast Unlock: 0
TCC - HiGr MPH to Unlock: 45 (use to set minimum MPH/KPH for OD)

Flags:
"Option Word 2 - Bit 7 - TCC " option to be checked (set)
"Option Word 2 - Bit 5 - HiGrH" option to be checked (set)
"Option Word 2 - Bit 2 - DcTCC" option to be un-checked (clear)
"Option Word 3 - Bit 3 - TccHi" option to be un-checked (clear)

Tables:
TCC - TPS% Opening/Closing Delta for Unlock: 100%
TCC - Relock Delays: 0's
TCC - LoGr TPS% to Stay Unlocked: 0's
TCC - LoGr TPS% to Unlock: 0's
TCC - HiGr TPS% to Stay Unlocked: variable (use to set OD exit on heavy throttle)
TCC - HiGr TPS% to Unlock: variable (use to set OD exit on heavy throttle)

Note: the last two tables above set the TPS% threshold where OD is exited.

Be sure to retain the "TCC - HiGr TPS% to Stay Unlocked" table lower then the other table.

Zero out this table:
SA - TCC Locked Retard

So you can see from the settings above that the TCC should lock at above 44mph when the car is in 4th gear (HiGrH)

Also if anyone would like to share bin file setting just PM me. I'm happy to share anything that I've done although I know I have a long way the go. I would also be interested in trying other peoples tables to compare the results.
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Old 06-18-2019, 06:42 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Buccaneer View Post
What is your max advance on this table? Your 95-100 map at 3,600 and up is pretty light IMO. You should be ALL in by then all the way to redline. You are only at 29.8*.
My SA Main Table

Name:  SA_Main_table.bmp
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Name:  SA-Main_Table.bmp
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Old 06-18-2019, 08:06 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by GregMartin View Post
Hey Gibbles
A couple of quick questions. Does you digital dash work? I don't get any average or instantaneous mpg but I do get range and the upshift indication when I hit my shift light limit. I have a Corvette digital cluster book by Gordon Killebrew and according to that there is a data stream so I just wondered if you get mpg info?
My settings are

Option Word 3 - Bit 7 - DglDh flag set
Then this parameter for the injector flow rate:
DGD - Injector Flow Scalar set to 64.9

Also do you have any issues with cold running? My car starts straight up and idles smoothly but when I set off on cold mornings it splutters and backfires until it is warm enough to display oil temp. I increased the choke AFR vs CTS values to enrichen it when the choke conditions are met. This has improved the situation a little but it is still not quite right. We are not talking about real cold conditions either, overnight temperature here don't go much lower than 5DegC (so about 40DegF)
so I would assume that your car would be exposed to these kind of condition fairly regularly.

Also is there anyone out there running a 4+3 with the EBL Flash II. I have set up the TCC to engage the OD as per Rbob's instructions but it is not working.
My set up is as follows:

Scalars:
TCC - Lock Enable CTS: -40
TCC - Forced Lock: 255
TCC - LoGr Max TPS% Coast Unlock: 0
TCC - LoGr MPH OK to Lock: 255
TCC - LoGr Min TPS% Coast Unlock: 0
TCC - LoGr MPH to Unlock: 255
TCC - HiGr Max TPS% Coast Unlock: 0
TCC - HiGr MPH OK to Lock: 44 (use to set minimum MPH/KPH for OD)
TCC - HiGr Min TPS% Coast Unlock: 0
TCC - HiGr MPH to Unlock: 45 (use to set minimum MPH/KPH for OD)

Flags:
"Option Word 2 - Bit 7 - TCC " option to be checked (set)
"Option Word 2 - Bit 5 - HiGrH" option to be checked (set)
"Option Word 2 - Bit 2 - DcTCC" option to be un-checked (clear)
"Option Word 3 - Bit 3 - TccHi" option to be un-checked (clear)

Tables:
TCC - TPS% Opening/Closing Delta for Unlock: 100%
TCC - Relock Delays: 0's
TCC - LoGr TPS% to Stay Unlocked: 0's
TCC - LoGr TPS% to Unlock: 0's
TCC - HiGr TPS% to Stay Unlocked: variable (use to set OD exit on heavy throttle)
TCC - HiGr TPS% to Unlock: variable (use to set OD exit on heavy throttle)

Note: the last two tables above set the TPS% threshold where OD is exited.

Be sure to retain the "TCC - HiGr TPS% to Stay Unlocked" table lower then the other table.

Zero out this table:
SA - TCC Locked Retard

So you can see from the settings above that the TCC should lock at above 44mph when the car is in 4th gear (HiGrH)

Also if anyone would like to share bin file setting just PM me. I'm happy to share anything that I've done although I know I have a long way the go. I would also be interested in trying other peoples tables to compare the results.
When I get home later I'll send you my bin. It won't help you with VE but as a reference for the soug nash settings I used. Also, did you de-pin the blue and white wire? I had to on mine to get the overdrive to work.
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Old 06-18-2019, 08:31 AM
  #56  
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I'm just waking up for the day, I'll read though everything again shortly lol...

However my sa main table is a copy paste from the sa table from an 89 vette.
I also have a 94 table, but the car seemed happiest with that table.
And yes, large cap table.

Dui module, coil, and large cap.

And my digi dash works, but i have issues with the tachometer over 4k rpm, and the gas mileage sorta works, but you have to tweak the gas mileage via an injector flow setting until you get it right...
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Old 06-18-2019, 08:39 AM
  #57  
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Cold running, i had bad issues early on.
With my 80 lb injectors it would nearly flood my engine out.
I had to play with the choke settings.

My next issue was a hot restart, flooded out again!
I had to tweak those until i could restart the car.

If needed i can send you my bin file, the main thing i have us the sa table that may or may not work well for you, and a reference for some choke settings should you run 80lb injectors @22psi wot...
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Old 06-18-2019, 08:49 AM
  #58  
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Also, wideband helped me out a ton for cold startups.
One thing i hated was that i needed to warm up the wideband before i could get a solid read while it sputtered and struggled to run.
The wideband said to not do that, but i did anyways... lol

Widebands are sensitive, i have spent several hundred bucks on those sensors, but they are worth every penny.
I lucked out with my wb setup, i got a sealed box return from amazon for half price, something like $60.

I have headers, and a little heatsink adapter to prolong the life of my sensor, but they still randomly die on me.
To do it right, i should have an o2 sensor bung installed down by my trans pan (I'm auto).

I actually thought i was running lean during cold and hot startups due to the way it bogged and sputtered, the wb set me right, but a solid backfire would strongly suggest lean.
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Old 06-18-2019, 01:12 PM
  #59  
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Also, wideband helped me out a ton for cold startups.
Widebands are sensitive, i have spent several hundred bucks on those sensors, but they are worth every penny.
^^^THIS^^^
I can not say it enough, you can not tune the motor properly without one, jus sayin'. You will be chasing your tail endlessly.

As far as your SA table Greg...Yeah, you have a ways to go on that, but you must get the fuel VE table in line first, then SA. If your tune is following your data logs properly when you get ready to make the SA changes, bump the SA up to around 34* from 3600-6350, 95-100 MAP and see how the motor likes it. If you're OK, go another degree and test it. Your final settings should be somewhere in that area generally speaking for max power. Good luck guys on the tuning. It would be great if Ben would have his dyno full up and ready to go for you to tune on. A Dyno Dynamics one of the better machines to use IMO and use one myself here in AZ.

Last edited by Buccaneer; 06-18-2019 at 01:15 PM.
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Old 06-18-2019, 06:18 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by 84 4+3 View Post
When I get home later I'll send you my bin. It won't help you with VE but as a reference for the soug nash settings I used. Also, did you de-pin the blue and white wire? I had to on mine to get the overdrive to work.
I didn't de-pin anything on the connector. Looking at my FSM the only Blue and White wire is in terminal White-23 and labeled "Cold Start Module". In the electrical trouble shooting supplement it shows that wire being connected to the "Vehicle Elapsed Time Sensor Module". I'm using a HAM board but I'm not sure if that wire is connected through to something different on the EBL. I've marked up my FSM in pencil with where I thing the connections go.



Also what do you have your VSS pulse per mile set to? Mine is currently set at 2002 but I read that it should be 4004 and I'm wondering if that is what's preventing my MPG from working. I thought it look right in the WhatsUpDisplay which would indicate to me that it's correct, but I'll go back and check.
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