Renegade Intake
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Joined: Nov 2005
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From: Arizona - If you don’t know CFI, STOP proliferating the myths around it...
I have faith that you can sort it out Tom. It’s only the butterfly valves and linkages that need to be sorted out really (reversed on one TB).
While I’m on my wish list we need a 300hp crossfire kit or at least parts list. Recommend or supplied heads, CAM, Renegade, EBL ECM with a canned tune from Rbob and machined TBs. Lots of people on here ask how to get 300hp from a crossfire and it’s a realistic target for a streetable car. Could have a separate set of recommendations for a 383 all backed by actual tests.
While I’m on my wish list we need a 300hp crossfire kit or at least parts list. Recommend or supplied heads, CAM, Renegade, EBL ECM with a canned tune from Rbob and machined TBs. Lots of people on here ask how to get 300hp from a crossfire and it’s a realistic target for a streetable car. Could have a separate set of recommendations for a 383 all backed by actual tests.
Ask Fred from NZ how my motor sounds, I fired it up while he was at the house. Ask him if it sounds like a mild CF. LOL (grin
) 
I have a short vid of my motor firing it up, but want to do another one and then post that one. The first one is more of a trail on doing it, but sounds pretty good. I guess I could give Bob a call and have a talk with him?
Last edited by Buccaneer; Sep 27, 2019 at 07:19 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,402
Likes: 287
From: Brisbane Australia
C4 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019
Thanks and we shall see what happens down the road. That would be cool, but the tune would be hard to get from rBob since he would have to have the car there in PA to do it and that's taking into consideration that he would have the time and a dyno available to do it. 300 at the motor is very doable though for sure and streetable. The 383 motor would be another issue. The problem then becomes about the tune as well. It would take a fair amount of dollars to get the tune a "turn-key" tune...now, how much is that going to cost and once it gets released to someone, who is to say they just wouldn't give that tune out to anyone or everybody? The whole thing becomes somewhat problematic. It all sounds great on paper, but the reality is it becomes a nightmare. That is one of the reasons I don't sell or give out my tune, I have spent a lot of dollars on a dyno to get it where it is today and running like a salded dog just to give it out.
Ask Fred from NZ how my motor sounds, I fired it up while he was at the house. Ask him if it sounds like a mild CF. LOL (grin ) I have a short vid of my motor firing it up, but want to do another one and then post that one. The first one is more of a trail on doing it, but sounds pretty good. I guess I could give Bob a call and have a talk with him?
Ask Fred from NZ how my motor sounds, I fired it up while he was at the house. Ask him if it sounds like a mild CF. LOL (grin
) I have a short vid of my motor firing it up, but want to do another one and then post that one. The first one is more of a trail on doing it, but sounds pretty good. I guess I could give Bob a call and have a talk with him?
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,532
Likes: 1,185
From: Arizona - If you don’t know CFI, STOP proliferating the myths around it...
I think the bolt on 300hp recommendation/kit is more commercially viable but I get your points. When I get my turn sorted I’ll be happy to share it I have no commercial reason not to although I’ve heard Bob doesn’t like them shared too far and wide so that would need to be respected. The base tunes rBob has don’t really suit what I would consider to be a standard kind of 350 crossfire build. Reasonable priced alloy heads, mild cam, renegade intake, how many of these builds are out there? Surly there are lots of builds like mine out there, and I sure there would be more if it was better documented.
Intermediate
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 39
Likes: 16
From: Strongsville, Ohio
It's a funny thing....just mention "Renegade" in any forum and there will be plenty to chat about. Some threads I've read and re-read were started back in like 2008!
I was able to take a real close look at my recent purchase and I think its a keeper! Really happy about it, although it has gone up in price since I've been reading about it. So does everything else. I thought I read somewhere that both TBs combined are close to 750 cfm. And the stock intake is around 475. Talk about restrictions!!!
I will be doing heads, cam, valve train, fuel pump, headers so the Renegade will get some help. This should be a great start. The bad thing is I wanted to document on paper what I'm starting with. Some track times, dyno, etc. Proof of where I came from giving me something for my upgrades to compare with. Of course I'd have to do it again after mods are complete. A fully documented, proof is in the pudding BUILD! If I were to guess, I'd say stock out the factory was 205hp a quick 15% loss takes me to 175 to the wheels. Next, factor in age, I think I'm looking at about a 150-160hp car. Not the most impressive start, but every journey starts with the first step.
I am looking forward to my progress through all this, but that I will post in my build thread.
I was able to take a real close look at my recent purchase and I think its a keeper!
Really happy about it, although it has gone up in price since I've been reading about it. So does everything else. I thought I read somewhere that both TBs combined are close to 750 cfm. And the stock intake is around 475. Talk about restrictions!!!I will be doing heads, cam, valve train, fuel pump, headers so the Renegade will get some help. This should be a great start. The bad thing is I wanted to document on paper what I'm starting with. Some track times, dyno, etc. Proof of where I came from giving me something for my upgrades to compare with. Of course I'd have to do it again after mods are complete. A fully documented, proof is in the pudding BUILD! If I were to guess, I'd say stock out the factory was 205hp a quick 15% loss takes me to 175 to the wheels. Next, factor in age, I think I'm looking at about a 150-160hp car. Not the most impressive start, but every journey starts with the first step.
I am looking forward to my progress through all this, but that I will post in my build thread.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 21,543
Likes: 3,216
From: Park City Utah
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,532
Likes: 1,185
From: Arizona - If you don’t know CFI, STOP proliferating the myths around it...
BlackVetter: I think for what you are planning on doing as far as documenting everything is an EXCELLENT idea. I can't tell you how many times I've asked people if they checked their car before and after to see what the gain is and the answer usually was...No I didn't. Ugh! The butt dyno seems to always think it's much better than before, but only a real dyno pull before and after tells the real story. I think your 150-160 at the rear is very realistic depending on repair of the motor etc... It could be a little bit higher as well. I for one will be very interested in your improvements with all that. If you get with Greg from Australia, he did some similar mods, but I don't know what the differences between the two, he may be able to help you out. You are also going to an EBL Flash II on the ECM, right?
Tom400CFI: Yeah, it will depend on a lot of things actually, but I do need to put the TBs on a flow bench and see where I'm at first regardless which ones I use unfortunately to feed a 421. If things work out well, I WILL surpass Ben for sure whcih after talking with him recently, he thinks he can get his 84 into the high 11s which would be awesome N/A. I would hope to see 10.7ish or maybe a little higher... as long as the rest of the car will take the abuse as it sits today. I hope to find out. I'm sure I WILL find the weak link quickly. LOL
I can't tell you how many times I've asked people if they checked their car before and after to see what the gain is and the answer usually was...No I didn't. Ugh! The butt dyno seems to always think it's much better than before, but only a real dyno pull before and after tells the real story. I think your 150-160 at the rear is very realistic depending on repair of the motor etc... It could be a little bit higher as well. I for one will be very interested in your improvements with all that. If you get with Greg from Australia, he did some similar mods, but I don't know what the differences between the two, he may be able to help you out. You are also going to an EBL Flash II on the ECM, right?Tom400CFI: Yeah, it will depend on a lot of things actually, but I do need to put the TBs on a flow bench and see where I'm at first regardless which ones I use unfortunately to feed a 421. If things work out well, I WILL surpass Ben for sure whcih after talking with him recently, he thinks he can get his 84 into the high 11s which would be awesome N/A. I would hope to see 10.7ish or maybe a little higher... as long as the rest of the car will take the abuse as it sits today. I hope to find out.
I'm sure I WILL find the weak link quickly. LOL
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,402
Likes: 287
From: Brisbane Australia
C4 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019
Hey BlackVetter sounds like your build will be similar to mine. Your can read all about it in my 84 Journey thread. I didn’t do a dyno pull before I rebuilt my engine but that’s is because I threw a timing chain so I was kind of forced into a rebuild. I do think your power estimates are probably close even less if you use an eddy current dyno (a heartbreaker).
anyway you can read all about my journey and see what applies in your case. I tried not to over capitalize so e street heads, flat tappet cam etc. EBL flash II ECM and a WBO2 sensor to help with the tuning.
anyway you can read all about my journey and see what applies in your case. I tried not to over capitalize so e street heads, flat tappet cam etc. EBL flash II ECM and a WBO2 sensor to help with the tuning.
Last edited by GregMartin; Sep 28, 2019 at 05:47 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 17,699
Likes: 1,667
From: moraga ca
Id love to see someone build a nice crossram that takes carbs, has sufficient runners to support a real healthy SBC and clear top vlave covers
Unless it was real cost prohibitive Id run one.
If youve seen the way the lsx fast runners are shaped those are a winner. Making them totally accesible for those that port a bonus
Unless it was real cost prohibitive Id run one.
If youve seen the way the lsx fast runners are shaped those are a winner. Making them totally accesible for those that port a bonus
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Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 179
Likes: 12
From: Missouri
Yeah, I've seen some info here and there on these, but noting for sure, in other words, nobody that I'm aware of has put these on a flow bench like Jim and did on CF TBs and had checked out what they really were putting out for flow in full configuration. So, I guess at some point I will have to go back and revisit the flow bench when I get some 4.3 TBs and give it spin.
Also, just got back from the WFO and as soon as I mentioned a 421 to the machinist he was ready to start machining today. "Hold up doood...I don't even have a block yet." LOL He said I'll order a SHP block for you today and get it at a discount price. It all sounded good, but I really want to plan this motor out, lots of things to consider on this build if I decide to go forward and lots of cash since I would be getting everything new including heads as well, either Brodix or AFR. So another motor from top to bottom would be new just like the motor that is currently in the 82. While there he also pulled out a NOS system that he said we should put in it since he loves NOS and runs it on everything he owns and knows his stuff when it comes to setting that kind of thing up. The point would be... Well, actually there wouldn't be any point doing that if I were to go CF again on the motor since anybody can throw a bottle at a motor and make it run. I want to see what I can do with just TBs. I know it may sound crazy, but oh well.
And one last thing...The machinist also said that a tripower TB setup on the Renegade would be badass and I should do that first and then we talked a bit about that all while I was comparing it and using his new motor as a reference that has four TBs on top a large plunum somewhat like the CF manifold with over 900 CI sitting there on the stand ready to go into his race car this weekend. Oh what an awesome site that motor is and will truly be a Beasty thing this season.
I was also taking some dimensions off of a four barrel manfild he had lying around while there.
Also, just got back from the WFO and as soon as I mentioned a 421 to the machinist he was ready to start machining today. "Hold up doood...I don't even have a block yet." LOL He said I'll order a SHP block for you today and get it at a discount price. It all sounded good, but I really want to plan this motor out, lots of things to consider on this build if I decide to go forward and lots of cash since I would be getting everything new including heads as well, either Brodix or AFR. So another motor from top to bottom would be new just like the motor that is currently in the 82. While there he also pulled out a NOS system that he said we should put in it since he loves NOS and runs it on everything he owns and knows his stuff when it comes to setting that kind of thing up. The point would be... Well, actually there wouldn't be any point doing that if I were to go CF again on the motor since anybody can throw a bottle at a motor and make it run. I want to see what I can do with just TBs. I know it may sound crazy, but oh well.
And one last thing...The machinist also said that a tripower TB setup on the Renegade would be badass and I should do that first and then we talked a bit about that all while I was comparing it and using his new motor as a reference that has four TBs on top a large plunum somewhat like the CF manifold with over 900 CI sitting there on the stand ready to go into his race car this weekend. Oh what an awesome site that motor is and will truly be a Beasty thing this season.
I was also taking some dimensions off of a four barrel manfild he had lying around while there.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2017
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From: New Jersey
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,532
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From: Arizona - If you don’t know CFI, STOP proliferating the myths around it...
Well, you do know this new motor IF I pull the trigger is going to be CFI, right? So, I will still need my intake, but I will need to create a new top plate if I decide to go with two, dual injector TBs, four injectors to feed a 421 CF. I do have a spare manifold here ya know and I may have two depending... who was first again?
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 179
Likes: 12
From: Missouri
Well, you do know this new motor IF I pull the trigger is going to be CFI, right? So, I will still need my intake, but I will need to create a new top plate if I decide to go with two, dual injector TBs, four injectors to feed a 421 CF. I do have a spare manifold here ya know and I may have two depending... who was first again?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 6,940
Likes: 1,490
From: New Jersey
Well, you do know this new motor IF I pull the trigger is going to be CFI, right? So, I will still need my intake, but I will need to create a new top plate if I decide to go with two, dual injector TBs, four injectors to feed a 421 CF. I do have a spare manifold here ya know and I may have two depending... who was first again?
I'm an honest guy so I have to admit @84 4+3 was indeed first.
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,402
Likes: 287
From: Brisbane Australia
C4 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,532
Likes: 1,185
From: Arizona - If you don’t know CFI, STOP proliferating the myths around it...
LOL, I had already been in talks with Edelbrock about this project a long time ago and was close to sealing the deal when... they decided they were not interested since "they" said it appeared to be a complex pour. Huh, really?
James...check your PMs.
James...check your PMs.
Last edited by Buccaneer; Oct 1, 2019 at 04:41 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,402
Likes: 287
From: Brisbane Australia
C4 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019
well clearly it is too complex for EMS
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 81,241
Likes: 3,063
From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
im right down the street from their foundry
If you got a scratch and dent or come across one (no rush) I may be interested.
Trying to figure a fun build for this l82 I have..thought a carbed crossram would be pretty cool. Holleys would bolt on no?
If you got a scratch and dent or come across one (no rush) I may be interested.
Trying to figure a fun build for this l82 I have..thought a carbed crossram would be pretty cool. Holleys would bolt on no?