X2 on this. It works.

 

Tom have you ever tried Belzona? I was reading up on it sounds like pretty badazz stuff...guess people use it to fix cracked marine/diesel blocks.

https://www.belzona.com/en/products/1000/1111.aspx

 

OK, I've looked at these pics several times to determine just what the issue is as far as not machined correctly. It would be pure speculation to say that it is not machined correctly by looking at these pics until it is fitted and dizzy dropped into the motor. It does look like the pour was off when the tooling was placed and put together in sand and that may be why the machining looks off on one side which shouldn't be an issue in itself. Again, EMS should have caught that in the machining process and called BS, but they didn't which is one of my beefs with them as far as quality goes.

There is a bit more to it then just re-machining the hole if you were to try that. It is not that simple and the hole must be machined exactly, not just just straight down, there is an angle that comes into play there or not only will there be binding of the dizzy, but the gears will not mess properly which will cause all kinds of issues down the road. The hold down screw hole looks slightly off which I wouldn't think that would be a functional issue either, but yet again it is a quality issue and attention to detail IMO with EMS.

The ports can be worked on if you would like to do that. We designed the manifold with that in mind and there is plenty of material there to do that, but caution is required like on any other SBC manifold. It is NOT like the original GM CF manifold with the entire bottom being a water jacket and you could easily go through into it and then have other issues. I for one would not use JP weld at that point, but do it right and TIG it to repair that. I didn't see anything on the EGR issue the OP was talking about. Pics? Are you running or have to run an ERG? The manifold design and function is sound, but is only as good as the machining. When we were having them machined locally in AZ, we never had an issue that I can remember except the first few pre-production test pours and we corrected those issues. Each one was hand fitted to a block for fitment before they left out the door. I would bet that EMS does not do that. There was a lot of personal care that went into those first 100 manifolds because I hand stamped each one myself with a serial number and did the lettering on each one to give it that brush aluminum look. EMS does not do that.

One last thing on the manifold and EMS. I had a customer call me and told me that EMS said that the tooling they received initially was bad and that is the reason for the pour quality on his unit that he received. Well, all I can say to that is, that is total BS! I was there along with Jim when we dropped off the entire tooling to EMS and we took an inventory of everything and had them sign off on it. There had only been at that point a total of approximately 100 manifolds poured at that time of delivery. Our tooling was manufactured by the pattern maker for a minimum of 1,000 pours before they should become even questionable, but that also has to do with handling of the tooling as well. So EMS was just blowing smoke to that customer and that really pissed me off that they said that to a customer. If it was solely up to me (and its not) I would have pulled our tooling from EMS a long time ago and either discontinued the production or maybe have another sit-down with the local foundry management here in AZ and then have our machinist here start do all the machining again. He still has all the G-code for his CNC to do the machining along with all the fixtures.

 

Buccaneer have you seen guys throwing carbs on these? Really think its a cool piece, cant help but love a crossram

A bonus would be able to use tall valve covers.

 

I have not, but I'm slowly working on a related project on that same premise and more... Everything in time. I had one of the original crossram manifolds on my 69 Z28 302 back in the day. which is what the design was going for on the crossfire. The original was somewhat of a dog down low rpm wise, but was a beast up high from 6-8k rpm. I wish I had that manifold now with the originall carbs, its worth a lot.

 

I haven't. Never ever heard of the stuff. I've used JB weld, like you said (on ported intakes that I "holed") and also this stuff call PC-7. That stuff is STOUT.

 

I guess I’ll say it one more time. I love my Renegade intake. It fitted perfectly, the distributor dropped in and lined up correctly, all the original fittings lined up, the ports lined up. It has transformed my 84 into an angry little beast.
looking at the machining around the distributor hole it looks similar to mine so I suspect it will be fine, I didn’t need shims because the end play was spot on. From the pictures I can’t really see anything else wrong. If it were me I would install it and enjoy the benefits it will bring. Mind you while it’s apart you could do heads and cam as well.

 

Like I had said when we talked on the phone. Let me know what's up when you're ready.

 

I want buccaneer to work in a twin, twin barrel configuration. With a new lid for the renegade to take two truck twin barrel throttle bodies and all the parts machined to allow correct fitment, operation and adjustment. That would be a modern take on a Donahue Z28.

 

He didn't get into too much detail but... what he was explaining for the little it would be sounds like itll be pretty sweet. I honestly have no clue what's up his sleeve but I was told it would be for those who wish to go fast.

 

Yeah I’ve talked to him about his plans and they sound good. But I still want him to engineer my idea. I’ll talk to him about it when he visits me in the wonderful land of Oz.

 

Thank you ALL for input, very grateful you take the time.

Greg,
It's funny you brought that up. After I got the Renegade, I was going to take an extra CFI intake and play with it, porting and whatever. I have a few 4.3 tb laying around and that exact thought came to me.

....my dad has a DZ block and crank. Go Sunoco

 

You guys kill me! I think Greg's idea is a pretty cool one though, but it does bring on more engineering issues to this setup to get it to work properly and of course this would be IMO for a motor of more cubes maybe around 421 or so. Just think of it...a 421 cubic inch SBC N/A CFI monster that just wants to eat, with either 4 80# or 4 90# injectors. Nobody that I know of, or have ever heard of, has built a 421 CFI motor. I've been thinking abut it though, but feeding it reliably with CFI is the stumbling block IMO. If I can over come that, it would be a beast for sure. This would also have to be done neatly under the hood airbox and fit the 82 hood air dump hole. Then there is the issue with EMS machining the top plate with inconstancy's which brings on another dimension to things for an engineering nightmare. My good friend here in AZ build a 421 N/A for his 67 Camaro with a Holley 850 and it runs 10.50 and he just took 2nd place this month at the Drag Week in VA and was nudged out of 1st by 2 tenths or so. I think the ECM would need to be upgraded as well to something like a Haltech Elite 1000 which I may purchase for my plans. I have already contacted them and we talked about a CFI upgrade. I plan on going over to my engine machinist at WFO today and discus things dealing with a 421 in motor.

Yep, a DZ 302 motor was a TON of fun back in the day. I did three different builds with that motor, the last one was sporting the old tunnel ram manifold with two 660s on top, what a beast that motor was. The feeling of yanking the wheels a little was AWESOME even if only a couple inches when only 20 year old.

BTW... Does anybody have the info on the dual TB on what the cfm happens to be? I may have to go back to the shop on a flow bench and play with that again on bore sizes etc...

 

That info is not clear for the smaller TB -the one that came standard on Chevy 4.3, 5.0 and 5.7 TBI engines. Somewhere around 450ish CFM. It's two ~43mm bores, fairly well "plugged" by the two injector pods.
The "454" TB is consistenly cited as being 670 CFM. That is two 51mmm bores.

 

Id love to see someone build a nice crossram that takes carbs, has sufficient runners to support a real healthy SBC and clear top vlave covers
Unless it was real cost prohibitive Id run one.

If youve seen the way the lsx fast runners are shaped those are a winner. Making them totally accesible for those that port a bonus

 

And it lives

 

Or those Holley 4 barrel throttle bodies (but I think they’re too big 1300 CFM)

 

I have faith that you can sort it out Tom. It’s only the butterfly valves and linkages that need to be sorted out really (reversed on one TB).
While I’m on my wish list we need a 300hp crossfire kit or at least parts list. Recommend or supplied heads, CAM, Renegade, EBL ECM with a canned tune from Rbob and machined TBs. Lots of people on here ask how to get 300hp from a crossfire and it’s a realistic target for a streetable car. Could have a separate set of recommendations for a 383 all backed by actual tests.

 

Yeah, I've seen some info here and there on these, but noting for sure, in other words, nobody that I'm aware of has put these on a flow bench like Jim and did on CF TBs and had checked out what they really were putting out for flow in full configuration. So, I guess at some point I will have to go back and revisit the flow bench when I get some 4.3 TBs and give it spin.

Also, just got back from the WFO and as soon as I mentioned a 421 to the machinist he was ready to start machining today. "Hold up doood...I don't even have a block yet." LOL He said I'll order a SHP block for you today and get it at a discount price. It all sounded good, but I really want to plan this motor out, lots of things to consider on this build if I decide to go forward and lots of cash since I would be getting everything new including heads as well, either Brodix or AFR. So another motor from top to bottom would be new just like the motor that is currently in the 82. While there he also pulled out a NOS system that he said we should put in it since he loves NOS and runs it on everything he owns and knows his stuff when it comes to setting that kind of thing up. The point would be... Well, actually there wouldn't be any point doing that if I were to go CF again on the motor since anybody can throw a bottle at a motor and make it run. I want to see what I can do with just TBs. I know it may sound crazy, but oh well.

And one last thing...The machinist also said that a tripower TB setup on the Renegade would be badass and I should do that first and then we talked a bit about that all while I was comparing it and using his new motor as a reference that has four TBs on top a large plunum somewhat like the CF manifold with over 900 CI sitting there on the stand ready to go into his race car this weekend. Oh what an awesome site that motor is and will truly be a Beasty thing this season.

I was also taking some dimensions off of a four barrel manfild he had lying around while there.

 

Triples would make the linkages easier.