I've got an 89. I've been having problems for a while where sometimes when I go out to start it with it cold. That sometimes I will turn the key several times, and get no cranking. And then after 5 tries it fires up. I believe there was a time where I held the key and I could hear a loud humming sound.

Anyways, the VATS has already been totally bypassed. So I figured I'd replace the starter solenoid to see if the problem went away, and if not then I may just replace the starter. As when I originally bought the car many many years ago, the PO told me he had just had the starter replaced, and that he had bought two Delco rebuilt starters for some reason, and gave me the spare starter that I still have laying around.

So, I've got a C4 parts PDF file, and I tried looking up the starter solenoid part number, but for some reason, the year circa 89 isn't mentioned in the starter section. So I can't find the part number for the solenoid. Anyways, the starter solenoid on my car is bolted to the front frame cross-member under the oil pan, and it looks like the red wires have aftermarket crimp on connectors and one wire looks to be butt connected or something to another wire and wrapped with electrical tape. This looks like an aftermarket rigging, but I'm not sure. See photos:


See where the red wire is apparently butt connected to another wire and has electrical tape wrapped around.


Solenoid location on front frame cross-member under oil pan.


See what looks like aftermarket crimp on ring terminals.


Those red wires with yellow shielding on the starter, is that factory red wiring there?

So, I have no idea if that is factory red wiring or where the factory solenoid is supposed to be, or if the PO's shop rigged that up? As I've got a digital FSM for my 89, and it's not really clear on the solenoid. And I've done tons of searching on Youtube, Google, and on the forums to see if I can find info and pictures on where the factory starter solenoid is supposed to be on an 89, and I can find no info or pictures.

Does anyone know if that is factory and if the wiring is factory? As maybe a prior shop put on a new solenoid and had to crimp on different size ring terminals onto the factory wiring? Or maybe they relocated the solenoid to that location? I just don't know. As I know the early C4's had a larger starter with a built in solenoid. Mine has the smaller starter, I'll post a pic of what it looks like down below. Does anyone have any pictures of what their solenoid looks like and location on a circa 89?

And I've searched around Rock Auto and the Corvette specialty shops, and can't find a starter solenoid listed specific for my car that looks like the one in the above photos. I did see some solenoids listed on Rock Auto for my year, though those look like the kind you mount to the starter like on the early C4's.

I did see Autozone have a bunch of random solenoids listed when searching, and some look like the ones on my car, though I have no idea what would be the correct fit. I think I may jack the car up and remove the solenoid from the frame to see if I can find a part number.

Some solenoids from Autozone:

https://www.autozone.com/batteries-s...457/420469_0_0

https://www.autozone.com/batteries-s...887/420470_0_0

https://www.autozone.com/batteries-s...954/365207_0_0


A/C Delco starter on mine: 10455702

 

That is definitely an aftermarket solenoid remotely mounted to try to deal with heat-soak issues on the starter-mounted solenoid. I've not had this issue with my stock setup (and I live in TX). If I were you, I would go back to the stock setup and simply replace the entire starter assembly. The possible savings of just replacing the solenoid will be minimal, plus, bad brushes or starter armature can give similar symptoms. You would certainly not want to have to pull the starter twice...

 

Post a snapshot of the 'spare' starter that the PO provided you. The solenoid that you pictured was an attempt by the PO to actually 'supplement' the original it appears. All 1989 Corvette would have a 'denso starter.

An original starter for an '89 would be a similar to the image you posted. I'd consider rebuilding/repairing the spare you have or the one on the car if it looks like your image. The 'supplemental' if done well should have corrected a possible issue. Your snapshots in the car does seem to display a 'denso. I'd correct everything back to original using a starter that you already have probably.

Instead of a repair that would have fixed your original it looks like someone attempted a 'solution' for HOT CRANK for the much older GM style of starters.

You can likely recover for very few $$$$.

*** Don't even consider a 'starter' at this point!!!

 

Thanks. I've still got the spare brand new A/C Delco Reman starter #10455702 that the PO gave me. I put a pic of what it looks like up above. I'll take it to Autozone, and then to Advance just to have both of them test it as I've had it for 15 years in a bag in my shed. I'm guessing that starter already has a built in solenoid, and the PO must have for some reason rewired it to mount an external solenoid so that the starter's internal solenoid was bypassed.

 

Do you have the FSM for your '89?

I'm quite sure that very few $$$ will correct your issue 'without' buying a starter.

 

Switch wire from the C100 'firewall' block should be 'purple' - your FSM should point you towards C100 from 8A-30-0. Just search until you find 'purple' and then fabricate the switch wire from there.

 

Okay, I got out that new reman starter the PO gave me. And it has a part number 17008 and says it was "remanufactured in the US". And according to Rock Auto, that's a "Remy" part number. So I'll have it tested to make sure it tests good before I install it.

Also, I'm able to now tell that it only has two connection posts, as I was thinking it had three with all of the wires. So that makes this easier. As that means where you see that electrical tape, that red wire looks to be connected to a factory wire. Which I'd guess that factory wire is supposed to be connected to the starter on the smaller post. So I'll have to jack it up so I can remove that electrical tape to see what's under it. Hopefully that shop the PO used wasn't a POS and didn't cut off the factory ring terminal. If they didn't, then this is real easy as I'd just have to replace the starter and remove that solenoid/wires.

If they did, then I'll have to get a correct sized ring terminal and hope there is enough slack in the factory wire and enough room for me to crimp on a new ring terminal. I'd get the kind of ring terminal that has the adhesive shrink wrap to make that crimp more weather resistant than what that shop used on the solenoid wires. Hopefully there's enough slack, or else I'd have to butt connect an extension wire.

I see the starter is supposed to have a round donut looking foam gasket on the face. And you are supposed to remove the old one and put it on the new starter. And I've read of some cutting a new one out of foam 1/8" thick gasket material. Can anyone recommend a foam gasket material that is high temp that they've used for this? Though I've read some people say a dealer told them that foam gasket isn't necessary. But thought of having it in just in case.

 

When installing the starter you need to concern yourself with only proper shimming of the starter to correctly orientate the pinion drive gear appropriately to the flywheel ring gear. Your FSM covers that. Since there's been some modification of yours make sure you have the appropriate starter bolts

The seal to the converter cover if you wanted could be just a proper sized o-ring cemented to the drive housing of the starter I'd think. Since it's a reman I believe it's possible the drive housing might not accommodate one. You've got the starter to use for sizing and the auto parts store that you have check it should have an o-ring assortment. You'll find I believe most don't use anything.

The image you chose from RA doesn't look to likely accept one. Some are very different.

Post a 'snapshot' of your drive end housing.

 

I can confirm that my new reman starter that I've kept stored away looks exactly like the above pic. I'll take it to the parts store and have them run the test a couple of times to make sure it doesn't fail as it's been sitting in a plastic bag in the shed for 15 years. I may see about getting a rebuild kit to rebuild the one I pull out just to keep around.

And I do plan on getting a shim kit from the autoparts store to have on hand if needed. If not, I can return it. Looks like Dorman - HELP 2335 would work, though it doesn't come with the short shims if you needed to adjust one side, which the FSM mentions you can use washers. Any shims that come out, I'll put those in and check first. I'll pull the pinion out and put some Popsicle sticks behind it to keep it out while checking as the FSM doesn't mention that part.

And yes, the FSM says to use a .5mm (.020") wire to check the gap with. Which I can get some solid copper wire from the hardware store to match up something close and bend it to shape. The FSM doesn't really tell you anything on this, and so I assume that wire should fit kind of snuggly?

 

That is definitely aftermarket and it makes no sense as why it was added. Eliminate the extra solenoid if you can. All that does is add in an extra solenoid in the circuit that means there is one more item to fail. You still need to use the factory solenoid to complete the circuit and engage the starter Bendix and the extra solenoid does nothing other then create another failure point.

Now if the goal is to eliminate all the wires to the starter and only have a single power wire going to the starter then a stand alone solenoid makes some sense, since it can be mounted in a easy to reach location but this application is not for that, or if it was intended for that reason they did it wrong.

 

The OP has had his car for quite a number of years and it's been modified as mentioned all the while he's owned it. OP had no part of the modification. What was done by apparently a very 'old school' mechanic was try to correct a 'heat soak' situation he was very familiar with in MHC, BB Whatever etc. with older DelcoRemy cranking motors. Through the years an Aux Relay has been mentioned/done by many. For an LT5 it's quite common only because of cranking motor location, but I imagine many have done similar with L98 cars w/'denso motors just because they don't understand it. Is there a reason for it in L98 cars w/'denso motors? Maybe! It functioned for the OP for many years so the guy apparently did understand the wiring. I don't believe 'WRONG' is a fit here. There's a wiring array that me & you can't see and shouldn't criticize except to say 'not required'!!!

This thread was one of the more interesting when posted back in 2010 ---

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ter-relay.html

 

Not trying to be difficult but the old idea to resolve a heat soak issue by adding in an external relay to keep it out of the heat but still use the original starter motor with a jumper wire was not a solution. As I mentioned you still need the original starter motor relay to activate to pull in the Bendix and complete the circuit. The only reason to use an external relay would be to kill the power to the starter cable motor in case the large cable shorted to ground against the headers.

In the OP pictures you can see that the additional relay is running only power from the battery terminal of the starter to relay and then back to the S terminal on the original starter motor. That means the purple wire is now going to the additional relay and closing that circuit which in turn activates the relay on the original starter motor. This does not eliminate any heat soak issue and just adds in an additional relay to fail.

If my post came off as negative it was not meant to be, that is the problem with posts, you cannot judge my true meaning, i was trying to be helpful.

 

Yeah, I have no clue why that was added. The PO told me he had the starter replaced right before he sold it to me, and I've not messed with the starter on this car. I've always noticed that bundle of wires and thought it looked weird, but didn't really think much about it. Also, they did kind of a crappy job anyways with those wires just dangling like that and by not using adhesive shrink wrap on the crimp on ring terminals. As even though this has lasted the entire time I've owned it, this doesn't look like a permanent hack job, instead it looks more like something you'd do to quickly get back on the road until you can fix it properly later.

That spare starter the PO gave me, I took it in and had it tested four times and it passed as good. So at the end of the week I plan to remove that hack job and replace the starter since I have an intermittent starter issue. I'll cross my fingers that they didn't cut off the ring terminal for the purple wire. If they did, then I'll probably have to special order a new #10 ring terminal. As I'm not sure if a regular ring terminal from the parts store will work on that wire, or if it is supposed to be a heavy duty version, i.e. thick version. I did notice online they also sell high temp ring terminals.

 

Here, this starter has 4.5 stars. It comes with shims, bolts and sealing rings. Buy this and don't overthink this project.

 

Thanks. Though I don't think I'm overthinking it as I had a hack job to figure out, but it's figured out. And as mentioned, the PO gave me a brand new reman starter when I bought the car. Don't know what was going on there, but he gave it to me and I've had it stored all this time. I took it in to get tested and it passed as good, so I'm going to use it. Also it says on the sticker it was rebuilt in the US, so I'll hope it was one of the good rebuilds vs China or whatever.

If I find the ring terminal on the purple wire has been cut off, then I'll order an open barrel ring terminal to keep it OEM style. I already have the correct crimper for that anyway from when I broke a wire in the door on one of those weatherpack terminals.

 

That great. Make sure you disconnect the negative terminal before you start.

 

Luckily they didn't cut the ring terminal off on that purple wire. Also, that external solenoid is now in the trash. On that new rebuilt starter that I've had laying around, I pulled the back cover to inspect it and noticed that whatever company rebuilt it didn't put a gasket on the rear cover. Anyways, I had ordered a rebuild kit as I had planned on rebuilding the starter that's on the car to keep it as a spare and I ordered a kit that came with a new gasket for the rear cover to put on the new reman starter. Though the used starter that was on the car in the above pics is now trash.

I went to remove the nut on the small stud that the purple wire is supposed to go to, and the stud instead just spun around. I ended up cutting the wire so I could remove the starter, which didn't matter as it was a red aftermarket wire connected there. When I go to put the new reman starter on, I may put some antisieze on that small stud. Also on the used starter, I found one of the inside nuts that screws down one of the copper bolts was only finger tight. I unscrewed it and found the large copper bolts didn't have oring seals.

But then I pulled the rear cover on the used starter and found there was an oily coating inside. My intake manifold leaks oil, and so I think the oil got in past one of the copper bolts. And that was what was probably causing an intermittent no start when I turned the key.

So, that rebuild kit I've ordered also comes with orings. So I'm going to take my new reman starter apart to install the orings and will put the gasket on the rear cover. For future reference, I found the square copper bolt heads to be 13mm. So what I'm going to do is take my 13mm wrench and come it at the side on the bottom of the bolt head, and I'll press down to keep the bottom contact flush with the bottom while I tighten down the mounting nut.

Here's the kit if anyone does something similar. Though the included plunger probably won't work as it's a little too short. So you'll either have to special order a new plunger (which won't be worth it compared to a new reman starter) or sand/clean your existing plunger. I may also get some new starter mounting bolts from Autozone. Dorman 45640.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/274288733446

 

It seems you've done well BUT I wouldn't have 'trashed' the starter you removed. I would have saved it, identified it by maybe information on it and dependent upon what you find saved it for maybe a later refresh OR offered it to someone who might use it as a 'core' for a reman so they could retain their OE original for the future.

 

What I meant by "trash" is that it wasn't reusable as is, though yeah you could probably epoxy weld the stud in place and get some solid core wire and solder it and get it working again, but I wouldn't do that. I'll be saving it if I need it as a core in the future. But probably not as on Rock Auto even though it's cheaper to buy a reman starter, though after you ship your core in, you're not really saving a whole lot. So in that case, I'd just buy a brand new starter. Which a brand new starter on Rock Auto is the same price as a reman from the local auto parts store.

 

I get most of that but I'm an RA HATER - don't shop there and don't suggest or refer others there either!! LOCAL first! Never RA!!

If a person close to you had a genuine confirmed OE starter motor with a correct label on it, your core would be worth a few $$$ so they could save the OE.