I dont see why he would have to. I bet the stock 89-91 AC compressor sits just as high as his turbos did.
I have a turbo I was using to get measurements which is a lot bigger then his. It fit on the drivers side where he has his mounted just fine. If there is a problem, it will be the frame rails, which I will just cut. I am thinking about getting another hood (lightweight) anyhow, since I need to install the body kit I have and paint the whole car. Maybe there is one out there that does not have the frame rails. I seen a callaway with the intercoolers dumping out the top of the hood. I could see in the one pic the fraim rails were smoothed out so I dont know if there would be a huge loss in frame supprt there.

I even tried putting this turbo above the valve cover but the hood frame hit it. I had the super ram plenum and runners off, so I put the turbo on top of the base(no frame support here), and I could shut the hood. But the cowl gives a little more clearence then over the valve cover.

 

Hey bill could I pick up Ceramic Spark plugs and heat resistant headers from Kragen when I need them or will I have to order them from a Special Place? Will you be doing a TT setup also?

 

I would only run like 4 psi. Like LPE does on the stage 1, which is stock LS1.

Just my opinion, but I dont think the stock manifolds are that great. I broke one tightening it down, had to have it welded again. The flanges are thick on them though, and I really like that, and they are stainless so they say, but not the type you would want to use (321) on a good turbo manifold for the long run.

I want to make something a cross between a stock manifold and a block hugger. I want the spark plug cleanence, thick stock flange with the stock bolts going onto those welded on spacers. I hate header bolts in tight spaces.

Block huggers are on ebay a lot, they were like 45.00-75.00 bucks.

 

I was talking about ceramic spark plug boots. Instead of rubber. These are made by jacobs. They were 145.00. The wires burned out on me, so I cut the boots off, drilled the glued in wire, and used the MSD super conductor wires, in a DIY kit. So I see the spark plug boots as a one time purchase. I got my boot in the straight style, the 90 degree style cost a bit more.

I picked mine up from a place called PAW Perfomance Automotive wearhouse. I walked in and got them because I needed them that day. You can probably get them from summit or jegs as well.

The block hugger headers are in the summit catalog too. I think you have to send them out ot be coated. I think jet hot had some deal when you called they might have the headers there, ready to sell to you, so you save on shipping costs. I am not sure if it was them. I am not too sure who is the best place to get a coating from either.

yeah I am trying to get turbos on the car. it gets pretty frustrating how things dont go so well, and I have to walk away from it for a while. espcially when I see how things are layed out under the hood.

 

You say that jokingly... But I was thinking the same..... Small boost.. say6-8 psi with an intercooler has proved to be fine on a supercharger.... Im prob gonna end up pulling the motor to clean everything up.. Maybe buy a new wiring harness... $291.00 from painless.... Throw it on using the FMU and change it over to DFI when I change the motor over.... I have a 350 block sitting at the shop ready for me to throw in a nice Forged Rotating assembly.... Pulling the motor and putting it back in really isnt that big of a deal..... In the shop, you'd be surprised how fast it can be done.. Its all about the right tools.... Not to hard.....

The heat sheilding is ,in my eyes, the LEAST of our worries... Thats simple stuff....

What we NEED is for Ex-Gold to post some pictures of his headers off the car so we can see exactly what were talking.... Maybe even some measurements....

Im not to happy about the A/C thing... That kidna set me back a little bit... Im gonna talk to my local junkyard when I got to work Saturday see if they have the older bracket.... I got dirt cheap prices from them because my dad has been working with them for a while..... See what I can dig up.. But I doubt they r gonna have it....

My main problem is... Well.... This is my Daily Driver.... well, upon choice, I have a 89 Buick Regal and a 89 Blazer I could drive.... But how do I give up the Vette, haha.... I think Im gonna take the Blazer, We just threw a new motor in it today, so shes back up and running...



[Modified by StealDads67, 8:16 PM 2/10/2003]

 

Hoe doesnt have any pictures.

 

WOW, it kinda does Look like I'm Joking with my post, Sorry I huess I got carried away with all the :jester I'm just exicted I could do this For cheap and ot have to worry about headers that much. Also my dad has a Semi TRuck Repair Shop So I'm not worried about not having enough help or tools or equipement :yesnod:

Yes, EX-GOLD could you please post some specs on the U bend and where else you might have modified the Hugger Headers? YOu know it does suck when you cannot drive your vette for a while but I think its all worth it when you get back in for the 1st time. When my Corvette was in the shop after a front end accident, I couldnt drive it for about 10 days. I had to drive a slow azz Cadillac( NO flames to Caddys, they are nice cars, just slow). And then When I got in my Vette again after 10, 11 days I had a blast, I was like " WOW THATS FREAKIN FAST"

You really know how fast your car is when you get into a slower one and the response and the acceleration is not there. :yesnod:

 

hmm.... no pics huh..... Ok..... Well in that case.... He is upgrading the headers correct, going bigger or whatever... When he takes them off,( If he does them soon) maybe he will snap some photos.... Who knows.... Its not that big of deal....

 

hey now, my caddys not slow. it'll do 145. i know this.
im rethinkin the headers now. instead of one pipe coming up, im thinking im gonna bring all 4 primaries up and merge them at the turbo. that way i can play with the way they come up between the engine & frame.

 

I'm talking 1985 Cadillac Seville Stock 4.1 L V-8, 11 sec to 60MPH :eek: WOW thats neck breaking, blazing acceleration, tell Grandma to hold on. :lol:

ANyway you stll have to put in a WasteGate, So I'll stick with Huggers and put in a Wastegate fom the bottom where the U bend would go, I'll get the car on stilts and measure everything up tommorow and see how much room I really have. :yesnod:

 

Hey guys.... Quick question... Is brnd new To4b T3 or T4 turbo for 500 each including wastegates a good deal????

 

I used to have some pictures of my headers while they were off the car. I have no clue what i did with them.

I did have to notch the frame supports under the car just a little. That is easy to do. Just 4 bolts and they are off.

If i had a reverse right now i would drive the car down to the shop, put it on the rack and take some pictures.

While adding up costs to build a turbo system for the Vettes dont forget about the cooling system. It will have to be upgraded. That has been the biggest issue on my car. Everything is fine until you stick a big intercooler up front.

Bill was right about the plug wires, i learned first hand. You will have to run ceramic boots and good wires. I think the Jacobs are 2000 degree wires.

 

hmmm, didnt think about the wastegate.
always could use turbos with a built in waste gate & an aftermarket waste gate controller? maybe run the primaries into one pipe right before the turbo & have the waste gate right below the turbo. or what if you flatten the pipe a little where theyre's a clearence problem. it would still be the same size, just oval instead of round. think that would hurt anything?

 

anybody know what temp. header wrap is rated at?

 

Im not to up to date with the wastegate part.... Im kinda in the dark with this... I know what they do and all.. I dont understand how they are controlled... Are all controllable with a Controller?

Ex-Gold.... Those pics would be great.... I think I speakon behalf of all of us when I say we greatly appriciate the help you have gave us....

Why are you having such troubles with the Tranny? Ever think of using a TH400 or anything heavyer?

 

Dont care for the 400 much. I need an overdrive trans. that will hold up. Looking for a 4L80E.

 

Ohhh.. Ok just wondering... HOpe you get that straightened out and get her back on the road... You daily driver her?

Hey, How muc did you pay for your turbos and wastegates if you dont mind me asking....?

Would you consider 500 a piece with wastegates brand new a good deal? (To4b T3)

 

Hey Kevin, where did you find the $500 Turbos and Did I hear right that they come with wastegates? HOw much power are they rated at?

The best I found so far are just 650 for the Turbo and 300 for the wastegate. YOUr Turbos are about half price, that should be good.

Also I think to control the Wastegates you have to get a turnable tunner that I think is connected to the end of the wastegate that measure the boost somewhere and opens the valve and lets out the extra Exhuast. I really need this If I only want 8psi Boost for now and then maybe 18 when I rebuild my Engine and change my Drivetrain :yesnod:

 

There was some question as to how wastegates work.

Most commonly used wastegates are 2-port designs, as shown in this picture, with one port at the top of the wastegate, and one on the side. If you take apart the wastegate, you'll find a nomex diaphram inside under the wastegate spring and cup, which is bolted to the wastegate valve stem.

In the usual arangement, the side port applies boost/vacuum directly from the manifold or compressor housing. This applies boost to the underside of the diaphram, pushing against it and the wastegate spring to open the wastegate valve. This allows a portion of the exhaust energy to bypass the turbine, thereby controlling the turbine's speed and therefore boost. By swapping wastegate springs, you can control how much boost the engine will make. A stiffer spring will require more boost pressure to be applied to the underside of the diaphram, the side port, in order to open the wastegate valve. The wastegate springs are typically painted a specific color to indicate their spring/boost rate. A purple spring is 20psi, yellow is 15 psi, blue is 10 psi, and white is around 7 psi.

The top port is usually referenced to a boost controlled port. On a "dial a boost" valve style boost controller, the input side of the controller is referenced directly to the manifold for boost/vacuum. The output side of the boost controller is connected to the top wastegate port. By varying the manifold pressure applied to the top of the wastegate, you can increase the boost beyond the wastegate springs rating. Basically, you are applying boost pressure to the top of the wategate, over the wastegates diaphram. This pressure applied to the top counteracts the boost pressure applied to the side port, under the diaphram, and works with the wastegates springs resistance to increase boost.

For example, say you have a 10# wastegate spring and the boost controller is completely closed blocking all pressure to the top wategate port. As an example, assume at a given point the engine is making 8# of boost. So you have 8# of boost applied directly from the manifold or compressor housing via the side wastegate port. In this example you have a difference of 2# so the wastegate spring will basically stay closed, although in reality the wategate valve will being to "crack" open at boost pressures slightly below the wastegate spring rate.

If you were to open the boost controller, allowing say 4 psi of manifold pressure to make it past the controller valve and be applied to the top of the wastegate. Now you would have 14# of wategate resistance - the 10# spring plus the 4# of boost pressure. Now you could build up to 14psi of boost before the wategate would open (theoretically), even though you only have a 10# spring.

This is the beauty of a turbo system. It is relatively simple with very few moving parts, so mechanical reliability is very high. But most importantly, the system allows you to postively control boost, and with more sophisticated boost controller systems, even tailor the boost curve. This can enable you to run none or very little boost for everyday, street driving resulting in a very easy to drive, almost stock like. However, with a simple turn of a ****, or press of a button on a electronic boost controller you can significantly increase power.

Electronic boost controllers operate under the same principle, except they use electronic solenoids to restrict the manifold pressure applied to each wastegate port. A manual boost controller is like a carb in a way, it will allow you to fine tune the boost for one specific operating point, basically limiting th e maximum boost the system is allowed to build. An electronic boost cotnroller is similar to EFI in that it allows you to optimize the boost curve throughout the operating range. The end result, maximum boost allowed or peak power is the same for both the manual and electornic boost controlled system, but the electronic controller allows for greater optimization at all operating points. Much like an EFI fuel or ignition map, many of them have advanced features which allow you to controll the boost curve based on engine rpm, gear selected, throttle position, timer, etc. That's how is is possible to run big power on the street while still having near OEM-like drivability if desired.

Now the interesting thing, at least to me, is how you can run alternate hose routing, etc to custom tailor the boost curve without the use of electronic boost controllers. Most of the racing clases that allow turbos do not allow electronic boost controllers, so the racers come up with all kinds of ingenious ways of applying boost pressure to the wastegate ports to provide amore tailored boost curve to allow them to have sufficient traction to launch, and then to apply as much boost as traction allows down the track.

I prefer to port it from the manifold rather than the compressor housing becuase it helps keep the turbos spooled up a little better for a street car because it tends to dampent eh reaction of the wastegate a little. Connecting the side port of the wastegate directly to the compressor housing will result in quicker activation of the wastegate, but on the street the rapid, continous fluctuation of the wastegate valve will result in slight loss or fluctuations in turbo speed.

Good luck guys!

 

SO you would perfer us to Get the Wastegate that Reads Manifold Pressure and then opens the gate at a given Boost PSI Set so the turbo doesnt make too much boost for the engine, or does it open from the outlet side of the compressor? I'm confused could you post some pics of how the different kinds of wastegates look like and where they go? :confused: Thanks Monty :yesnod: