Hey, I'm a libereal :D and didnt get offended, in fact I agree with you, vettes and vipers are what we have to show for our country. Yes I would also rather have a torque monster than a high reving mosquito sounding car.

 

:cheers: :chevy :thumbs:

 

"It's amazing in this country how many sensative azz people there are, I'm truly sorry if you dont agree with me but the whole point of my post was that just because a viper isn't a vette, doesnt mean you have to slam it. Slam all the other non american cars!"

no offense taken,im sure your post would've been a hit at viperforum.com
:p:

 

I did not get offended....we can all disagree.. and still love are american cars ..... But a vette being ugly...... :lolg: :lolg: ...man I can't agree with that at all !!!! but I will respect your opinion..... :yesnod: and still say with brotherly love :bs and I still want a :grouphug:

UGLY :boxing BEAUTIFUL :boxing UGLY :boxing BEAUTIFUL....OK I'LL SAY THE "U" WORD :rolleyes: ....UEAUTIFUL.....peace :chevy


[Modified by redcorvettedave, 1:20 AM 7/6/2003]

 

your just not aproaching the problem correctly..IF THE VIPER HAS A BIG BLOCK 488 CID then YOU NEED TO PLAY IN THE SAME BALL PARK! WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO START AT A 138 CID DIS-ADVANTAGE IN ENGINE SIZE?...INSTALL 502-605 cid IN YOUR CORVETTE

http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/Chev...arts_pics.html


http://members.rogers.com/rogue15/

http://www.vetteexplorer.com/cgi-bin/mv.pl

http://www.montygwilliams.com/turbochargers.html

how do you install a 454-502 in a C-4

if you put a bbc with aluminum heads, intake and water pump in , in place of the standard iron small block you only gain about 50-70 lbs, not enough differance to cause any problems at all, , I have worked on several of these swaps now and Im in the process of getting ready to do another one,heres whats needed
steering rack mounts cut and rewelded 3/4"-1" farther forward (that of course means the power steering pump lines/steering shaft, need to be extended 3/4" also)

small notch (starting at rear and going 3" forward from rear edge X 3/4"deep X 5" wide works well in rear top surface of (K) frame cross member to clear damper and pulley)(if you use an internally ballanced big block with the 6.75" dia. damper you can most likely skip the notch but with the 8" dia damper its necessary, and some oil pans will also require the back 1 1/2 of the (K) frame to be notched at an angle slopeing to the rear to clear them so youll probablly need the notch of some kind anyway)(and yes before you ask you could shim/modify the motor mounts up to get the clearance, but that would slightly raise the weight center and slightly effect the handleing, and that also makes the windshield motor and distributor clearance a bigger problem)

air conditioner shrouding fiber glass on pass side foot well around the air conditioning on the firewall needs to be modifyed for clearance, (the fiber glass cover from a LT5 makes this easy)(evaporator houseing cover)

1971 bbc vette exhaust manifolds (or custom headers) and all brakets/pulleys (mods needed here)
(see the post on building your own headers)
oil pan needs to be only 7.5" deep max

3" hood scoop unless you run a low rise intake and carb or a low height efi system

for a step by step instructions with pictures get a copy of the august 1998 vette magizine article( starts on page 34)it helped quite a bit the first time

otherwise its almost a drop in deal, but keep in mind that youll need a bigger radiator, the trans will not last to long with that amount of torque and it may not pass emission testing and a small size starter is needed, and your windshield wiper motor needs to be replaced with a much smaller one,(I don,t remember where we got them but alittle measureing and a trip to the salvage yard took care of that problem, and no tall valve covers don,t work well!

btw install the short block then add the heads with it in the car its FAR EASIER THAT WAY than trying to install the long block

BTW the earlier cars like the 1984-86 (Im not sure what years exactly)dont have the heavier forward frame braceing above the stearing rack that makes this swap more difficult to do! I have worked on this swap on the 84, 85, and 86 cars so I know they work fine, the later cars like the 1992 with the heivier forward frame braces above the stearing rack look like they will be more dificult but still do-able with some extra work, btw theres a guy at ARIZONA SPEED AND MARINE that has one you might want to talk to .just a few points
an all aluminum bbc WEIGHS LESS THAN AN IRON SMALL BLOCK so the HANDLING IMPROVES
an aluminum head, intake and water pump bring a bbc engines weight to within 70 lbs of the stock iron small block, so handling is almost unchanged

any un-supercharged small block not useing nitrous or some other power adder that makes over 550 hp is highly likely to be at least somewhat unstreetable as a daily driver and your not likely to build a small block that makes "764 HP & 695 lb/ft at the flywheel" likely costs as much or more than a big block makeing similar power, look, good engine choice
_______

heres a few pictures








it will of course depend on the engine combo you chose , and traction is usually a problem but low 12 second to mid 11 seconds is not at all hard for the cars Ive worked on. now you could build a kick butt engine and get into the 10s with ease but at that hp level the rear suspension and rear end itself tends to need work! the strong point here is that unlike a high hp sbc engine with nitrous and a huge cam, these cars are relitively easy to drive as daily drivers and the passing power with just part throttle is necessary to feel to be believed. plus the viper guys get really upset when you pull next to them at 50mph and pull away like they have a dead cylinder with the better chevy bbc engine combos, but you really are better off with aluminum heads/water pump and intake. btw getting a kick butt bbc is very easy, and far cheaper than a viper engine. btw the 700r4 trans or the manual trans that comes in the corvettes won,t handle a 550hp plus engine for long, but the 4L80E OVERDRIVE automatic TRANSMISSION chevy installs in the larger trucks can be used (EXPENSIVE BUT THATS WHAT I BOUGHT FOR MY FUTURE SWAP)

http://popularhotrodding.primediaaut...atures01.shtml

http://www.ideasandsolutions.biz/Hoover/top.html

http://shop.theengineshop.com/dr/v2/...P=0&CACHE_ID=0


keep in mind the cost versus performance ratio, a nice C-4 vette can be purchased for $6000-$20,000 add that $9000-$15,000 BBC drivetrain and youll have a car that kicks 99% of the cars on the roads butts (INCLUDEING MOST VIPERS) for about $16,000-$35,000

the rear ends hold up fairly well untill you use slicks, street tires won,t normally get enough traction to break things unless you use nitrous
both the 4 plus 3 manual and the 700r4 trans will work for awhile especially if your not trying 3000rpm launches all the time, the 700r4 trans can be built fairly tough but if your intent is to get 10 second 1/4 mile drag times then no! youll need to upgrade the trans to a 4L80E or TH400 with a serious big block or one of the sturdier manual transmissions
heres a few links

http://www.peachstatechevelles.com/muncieid.html

http://www.4speeds.com/muncie2.htm

http://www.yearone.com/updatedsingle...nfo/muncie.htm

http://www.5speeds.com/kit.htm

http://www.drivetrain.com/saginaw3_4sp.html

http://members.rogers.com/mlvd/muncie_rebuild.htm

http://www.gm.com/automotive/gmpower.../apps/4l80.htm

if your really looking for 600hp and you have a lot of spare change , drop in one of these 540-632 displacement engines, and run mid 10s with some suspension/tires and tuneing and a few mods like moving the battery to the trunk area and swapping to a light weight set of seats , adding a roll cage,ETC.

http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/Sneak/Previews.html

http://www.theengineshop.com/engine6.shtml

http://www.theengineshop.com/engine3.shtml

http://www.diabolicalperformance.com/diabolical540.html



almost anything can be done with a little care and thought! now something like that under the hood with a set of this injection would look neat






[Modified by grumpyvette, 5:05 PM 7/6/2003]

 

Now you're talking. :reddevil

 

That would be sick. I was getting ready to do a 396 stroker in my LT4. I want 550/550 hp/tq, I would love to do a big block swap but after talking to some engine guys I can do the stroker for about 8k installed and tyned on the dyno. As far as the vette being ugly stock, for me personally that goes for pretty much all factory cars except, diablo, 360 modena, mercialago, 911 gt2. For me all I need to do is wheels and tires and slamming and THEN it's where it needs to be. :party: :party: :party: :auto: :hurray: :thumbs:

 

I totally agree with the big block power. Put one of those against a viper and watch the viper dissapear in your rearview. For me personally I really want to build a 383 stroker with a low rise intake/carburator setup with a vortech supercharger, then it will still be streetable and I would be able to hang with the best of them. I have been dreaming up my carbed setup for over a year now, I have had well-tuned carbed cars that kicked some butt.

 

well drpepperkid i'll say one thing for sure.you get the most views to a post award! :lolg: :lolg:
1063 and counting :party:

 

and he's only 15 :crazy:

 

Yeah I hear that, I had an 87 FJ1200 with big carbs and a supertrapp and I saw 180 may times but 200 damn that some *****. :cheers:

 

LOL... You know the peg in the speedometer that stops it at like 175 or 180...well, it was removed and we marked more graduations in it just to get some sort of indication as how fast it was.

When I we did that, I was the passenger, and Dave just layed into it on 464 (If I remember the highway number correctly) in Norfolk. When he started slowing down, I struggled to move my head around the side of his so I could see the speedometer, and after looking for the needle for a minute or so, I finally saw it as it was coming down passed the last mark I could see...then on down below the 175 mark. In otherwords, the needle was wrapped around the odometer!

 

Well I may get the most post awards for my views, but thats the way it always is, when you're loyal to CHEVROLET and AMERICA, you always get slammed by liberals, I guess you think my opinions will offend somone. Well the truth is I don't care about anyone elses feelings unless they actually have an opinion worth hearing. Anyway, also on my hate list of cars are all sport compacts whether they're a chevrolet eco car or not, what retard started this generation of weirdos with rap music, mexican cars that go up and down, and pants to the ground. What happened to Hot Rodders like me?

 

I think I need to school you again :jester. The modern "Import Craze" was started in Japan and spread all over Europe before it even got here. Gas is very expensive in most of the world so, they modified small 4 and 6 cylinder engines to get big power and still be able to get good gas milage. I know in England a gallon of gas would cost around $4 to $5, depending on the exchange rate. Now, the "Import Craze' as we know it was really started in the 1940's after WWII. Soldiers would import MG's, Triumphs, all these little 4 cylinder cars that were considered fast in their day. Thats when Chevy thought of having their own sports car. Thus the Corvette was born. Like I said before. We borrowed, we made better. As far as this being retarded, I agree if it's just big wings and ground effects but, if it's actually fast, not retarded.

Oh, by the way, I am not a liberal. If you knew what it meant and looked to the left of my post, you wouldn't even have suggested it. I mean really, how many military liberals do you know or have heard of? :crazy: Sort of oxymoronic if you think about it.


[Modified by 86VETTEMAN, 3:33 PM 7/7/2003]

 

On Memorial Day I took my family to the Flashlight Drags at Quaker City Drag Strip in Salem, OH. When we arrived a Viper GTS was lined up against a Lincoln Mark VII, I thought this aught to be interesting that Lincoln is going to get smoked. Wasn’t even close the Lincoln, obviously modified, totally crushed the viper … in fact I think the Viper was beat every time. It was the coolest thing I have seen in a long time.

Brian

 

Alright VetteMan, you may not be AS liberal as I thought but anyone who would suggest that any type of import bling and wing or not has to be partially liberal. Anyway, I don't care about anyone outside of America except the U.K. (because they've always been great allies) and perhaps Israel even though I think all that money we send to them every year is rediculous! Back to the point though, Sport Compacts aren't American, anything that sounds like a bumble bee isn't American, and regardless if they have a wing or not, they all sound that way, All American high performing engines have that rumble that I like to call "American Thunder", even with motorcycles, American cycles are the only ones that have that rumble all the others sound like those POS import rides. I don't care about what some people did in the 40's, anyone that had a MG imported must have been wealthy, because I know it ain't cheap to have a car imported. My grandad was 16 in 1954 and he'd been on his own since '51 and he was just making it, and in '55 he bought a Bel Air and modded the heck out of it, he said that thing would push the 140mph end of the speedo and would keep gaining speed, and if he lifted his foot it would take better than ten seconds for that needle to move, that car would haul!!!! My dad was 16 in 1980 and he bought a 1969 Chevelle in '79 and modded the already powerful 325hp 396cid engine, and I know for a fact that thing would haul, I don't know about that engine but the 402 he put in it after I was born would really go, he kept the 402 until he it blew up then he put a stroked 327 in there and it would Rock N Roll to. I know I'm rattling on but here comes the point, that is the true defintion of an All American Teenager with true all American interests, and I'm just carrying on an old family tradition.

 

I totally agree with the fact that the big wings and fart can mufflers are a big waste of money and look totally rediculous. My point was, the whole conception of the Corvette was based on European design. It is just like the A/C Cobra. It was a British ACE with a huge American engine. As for the MG's, the military will allow you to ship one vehicle when moving to and from the U.S. free of charge. That is how the troops were allowed to bring back vehicles. This was also way before customs and road saftey scrutinized what was imported here. I only know all this stuff because I have been all over the world and I can appreciate what other manufactures have done with more restrictions than we have. Like I said, most of the world pays hella $$$ for gas and to be able to produce V8 power out of a 4 cylinder has got my respect. As far as these retards with the rediculous body kits and fart cans, they are making themselves look stupid. They would rather look fast than be fast.

 

I've read every thing that every one had to say about Vette VS Vipers....

all I have to say is that if I see one on the street, on the highway or at a red light right beside me, I'M FLORING THE PEDAL TO THE METAL!!!!

Even if I lose "and I know I will" at least I'll come back on the Message board with a pretty good storie to tell all you guys :)

I can't wait to see one right next to me, I don't see to many vipers out there

 

Alright Vetteman I get you now I understand what you're getting at now, but I will never respect any car but an American one (namely CHEVROLET), thats just my opinion though. Anyway, I've gotta go, I'll talk to you later.