Basic question about differences between superchargers.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,761
Likes: 28
From: ontario Ontario
Lots of good info here and I'll add my $0.02. I have always loved the maggie. Even put a maggie hood on my car because I had intentions of installing the maggie. I won't dis the maggie (except the price compared to the power output received). My best friend FunCool has done things with the maggie that few if anyone here has replicated with a PD style blower. I know the cars strengths and weaknesses
The centri blower offers a different type of performance which you need to ask yourself what do you want to do with your car? If your HP aspirations are set at a certain level and you want bling as well then look at PD closely. If you want bang for the buck, useable power, flexibility to make power as you mentioned, then go centri..... go to the C5 Z06 fast list and see how many PD blower guys are on the list. All depends on what you want. Based on your comments it sounds as though the maggie will fit your immediate needs but your long term goals will only be filled with a centri.
The centri blower offers a different type of performance which you need to ask yourself what do you want to do with your car? If your HP aspirations are set at a certain level and you want bling as well then look at PD closely. If you want bang for the buck, useable power, flexibility to make power as you mentioned, then go centri..... go to the C5 Z06 fast list and see how many PD blower guys are on the list. All depends on what you want. Based on your comments it sounds as though the maggie will fit your immediate needs but your long term goals will only be filled with a centri.
Racer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 457
Likes: 34
From: Hamilton Montana
Ask if anyone has a blower setup near you in Mountain - Prairie section...
Shoulda known this was gonna turn into a Centri. vs PD thread, LOL! Although I'm still talking "out my @ss" cause I don't have either, I think it really comes down more to personal preference. I think for the drag strip Centri would be better because launches would be easier, and more consistent. On the road course it's a crap shoot, you don't need to worry about launching because you're already rolling. With a PD you would need to exercise good throttle control comming out of the slow corners so as not to light 'em up. If yo
Last edited by sydneyACE; Nov 19, 2009 at 01:36 AM.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 10,179
Likes: 2,306
From: Wesley Chapel, FL Las Vegas, NV
My statement was light to light low end power and torque is going to mean more the peak HP.
Obviously at the track the car with the most power throughout the power band will win the race with all other factors being equal.
For a track car I'd go Novi or NA with Nitrous. For a street car the PD is sweet.
Last edited by Vega$Vette; Nov 18, 2009 at 08:37 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,083
Likes: 1,829
From: Metro Detroit Michigan
I have made a car with Eaton PD before. It was a Beamer E30 4wd 2500 cc and the result was like driving a standard car but with less effort. The power curve was a bit higher than stock all the way from idle to max RPM. That power was usable, like driving a N/A but with more power.
And I'm not saying any of this out of prejudice. I have a roots blower on another vehicle, and it happens to need a big power boost at 2000 rpm. The Vette doesn't.
OK, I'll admit that it might be fun to be able to roll the throttle on at 1500 rpm and light the tires. It just doesn't have much to do with going fast.
Last edited by Warp Factor; Nov 17, 2009 at 08:28 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,773
Likes: 2
From: San Diego CA
I have a KB @ 7psi and a very conservative tune. I'm at 507HP at the rear wheels and it's a blast to drive. When I retire in two years, and have the time to fix broken parts, I plan on drag racing the car.
I was torn between the KB and the maggie. I'm old school and to me, a blower goes on the top of the engine. My research led me to believe the roots will tend to fade at higher RPM and the KB will keep pulling to redline. I also thought there would be more room to "grow" with the KB.
Of course, then someone like "funcool" comes along and kicks butt with his maggie. I'll have to wait until I'm racing to see how good my choice was for the track.
But like I said, the KB is a blast on the street..
Good Luck....
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,702
Likes: 1
To the OP....
I have a KB @ 7psi and a very conservative tune. I'm at 507HP at the rear wheels and it's a blast to drive. When I retire in two years, and have the time to fix broken parts, I plan on drag racing the car.
I was torn between the KB and the maggie. I'm old school and to me, a blower goes on the top of the engine. My research led me to believe the roots will tend to fade at higher RPM and the KB will keep pulling to redline. I also thought there would be more room to "grow" with the KB.
Of course, then someone like "funcool" comes along and kicks butt with his maggie. I'll have to wait until I'm racing to see how good my choice was for the track.
But like I said, the KB is a blast on the street..
Good Luck....
I have a KB @ 7psi and a very conservative tune. I'm at 507HP at the rear wheels and it's a blast to drive. When I retire in two years, and have the time to fix broken parts, I plan on drag racing the car.
I was torn between the KB and the maggie. I'm old school and to me, a blower goes on the top of the engine. My research led me to believe the roots will tend to fade at higher RPM and the KB will keep pulling to redline. I also thought there would be more room to "grow" with the KB.
Of course, then someone like "funcool" comes along and kicks butt with his maggie. I'll have to wait until I'm racing to see how good my choice was for the track.
But like I said, the KB is a blast on the street..
Good Luck....
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 8,629
Likes: 16
From: York PA
To the OP....
I have a KB @ 7psi and a very conservative tune. I'm at 507HP at the rear wheels and it's a blast to drive. When I retire in two years, and have the time to fix broken parts, I plan on drag racing the car.
I was torn between the KB and the maggie. I'm old school and to me, a blower goes on the top of the engine. My research led me to believe the roots will tend to fade at higher RPM and the KB will keep pulling to redline. I also thought there would be more room to "grow" with the KB.
Of course, then someone like "funcool" comes along and kicks butt with his maggie. I'll have to wait until I'm racing to see how good my choice was for the track.
But like I said, the KB is a blast on the street..
Good Luck....
I have a KB @ 7psi and a very conservative tune. I'm at 507HP at the rear wheels and it's a blast to drive. When I retire in two years, and have the time to fix broken parts, I plan on drag racing the car.
I was torn between the KB and the maggie. I'm old school and to me, a blower goes on the top of the engine. My research led me to believe the roots will tend to fade at higher RPM and the KB will keep pulling to redline. I also thought there would be more room to "grow" with the KB.
Of course, then someone like "funcool" comes along and kicks butt with his maggie. I'll have to wait until I'm racing to see how good my choice was for the track.
But like I said, the KB is a blast on the street..
Good Luck....
Funtool lives in a small town way up north.
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Drifting
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,773
Likes: 2
From: San Diego CA
Sorry, I didn't mean to hit a nerve....
I don't know, nor have I ever meant Funcool. I have read some posts about/by him and by saying "kicking butt", I meant he seems to get more power from his maggie than most would expect.
I was just commenting on maggie versus KB, I try to avoid the "my car can beat up your car" debates.
I believe any supercharger is a good supercharger (now don't flame me, I didn't say anything about "best")
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 10,179
Likes: 2,306
From: Wesley Chapel, FL Las Vegas, NV
I ran a mid 11 on a 3000' DA track with PZeros and it was this 1st time at a track for me in 35 years.
That's not "respectable"?
Why do you think GM put a PD on the ZR1?
Last edited by Vega$Vette; Nov 18, 2009 at 12:54 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,375
Likes: 39
From: Charlotte NC
Because the twin turbo prototype of the ZR1 burnt to the ground. GM then nixxed the turbos and took the easy way out and went PD.
PD blowers are ok. They've been out for 10(?) years now for the C5's and I dont recall one 9 second time slip without the addition of N20.
Centri's and front mount turbos are currently running much faster and have been for a very long time.
It all depends on how fast you want to go. If you're happy with 10's at sea level, make SURE you don't want to go any faster. If you need to you'll either have to add N20 or change your FI method.
There MAY be one or two ZR1's in the very, high 9's soon, but we're talking 1 or 2.. maybe
PD blowers are ok. They've been out for 10(?) years now for the C5's and I dont recall one 9 second time slip without the addition of N20.
Centri's and front mount turbos are currently running much faster and have been for a very long time.
It all depends on how fast you want to go. If you're happy with 10's at sea level, make SURE you don't want to go any faster. If you need to you'll either have to add N20 or change your FI method.
There MAY be one or two ZR1's in the very, high 9's soon, but we're talking 1 or 2.. maybe
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,702
Likes: 1
As noted in a previous post,a PD supercharger looks great and has good performance for a street application. However,if you compare all power adders nitrous,turbo's and superchargers the PD supercharger when matched up against another power adder car of comparable HP/TQ numbers it is not competitive...top end (big end) performance sucks.
GM's reasoning for the use of a PD supercharger had nothing to do with obtaining maximum performance levels.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 8,629
Likes: 16
From: York PA
Actually the best mod for road racing is seat time, seat time, seat time, then tires, brakes and suspension.
Racer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 457
Likes: 34
From: Hamilton Montana
I agree with you about the track mods. After my first day on the track I realized the brakes on my car were really underpowered. I really think the decision should come down to personal preference anyway. What kind of feel the individual likes when lapping on a road course. Other than that, considerations should be made as to which system will allow him to run safe temps.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,761
Likes: 28
From: ontario Ontario
[QUOTE=98vettedave;1572171698]Take a look at Funcool's HP/TQ numbers and you tell me if 10.9X is respectable. Like I said if the dyno numbers are not applicable to track performance then the numbers are worthless. The soft launch and granny shifting was due to the fact that the power could not be applied to the wheels effectively.
QUOTE]
Actually FunCool's 10.9X pass was mostly a straight motor run. Both video's he shredded the belt off launch and we only had two belts at the track. Since the Cog he was pushing over 20lbs and lifted a head/blew a frost plug. Pulley change and now running 15-16 lbs. Maggies were never meant to do this but FunCool did it. Maybe it's just proof that the TVS isn't any better than the original maggie
Either way its all about the fun. Hopefully next year FunCool will lay it down at the track and run a better #.
To the OP, you need to go for a drive in a FI car with each style of blower and see what turns your crank. At the end of the day you need to do what will make you happy. Good Luck!
QUOTE]
Actually FunCool's 10.9X pass was mostly a straight motor run. Both video's he shredded the belt off launch and we only had two belts at the track. Since the Cog he was pushing over 20lbs and lifted a head/blew a frost plug. Pulley change and now running 15-16 lbs. Maggies were never meant to do this but FunCool did it. Maybe it's just proof that the TVS isn't any better than the original maggie
Either way its all about the fun. Hopefully next year FunCool will lay it down at the track and run a better #. To the OP, you need to go for a drive in a FI car with each style of blower and see what turns your crank. At the end of the day you need to do what will make you happy. Good Luck!
Racer
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 313
Likes: 0
I have never driven a PD blown Vette, but I really enjoy my Centri unit. Like others have said the lack of low end is not really a concern of mine. 1st and 2nd gear are useless as far as traction goes. Once I'm in 3rd I can lay the hammer down but around 80-85 the car wants to loose traction if I'm not on a really good road. The car is a beast. I almost bought a Kenne Bell, but after seeing my neighbor having a hard time getting any traction with all the low end torque of his TVS I decided to go a different route. The centri's are also cheaper, less complex, and seem to make more power per # of boost than the PD blowers. I have not confirmend the power per #, but it seems that way to me.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 393
Likes: 14
I don't have possibility to test different LS1 chargers because here in Finland we don't have so many of them on our roads..
One friend got 1210 hp/1330 Nm (on the crank) with two turbo's and one got 770 hp/1010 Nm with a centri. None of my friends have KB style supercharger on their Vettes.
Neither of those drive them around the
track but mostly drag racing and one mile challenge.
I would love to drive one mildly tuned C5 with different superchargers around the track..
One friend got 1210 hp/1330 Nm (on the crank) with two turbo's and one got 770 hp/1010 Nm with a centri. None of my friends have KB style supercharger on their Vettes.
Neither of those drive them around the
track but mostly drag racing and one mile challenge.
I would love to drive one mildly tuned C5 with different superchargers around the track..
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 10,179
Likes: 2,306
From: Wesley Chapel, FL Las Vegas, NV
Wrong...It was because he did not want to break anything. Anybody looking at the video knows he left at least 1/2 second or more on the table. Better tires a hard launch and power shifting would most likely get a 9.xxx
They wanted great STREET performance and used the PROVEN most trouble free and reliable blower available.Never seen a centri on a Top Fuel or Funny Car? Oops!