MelloYellow

Agree.

Also, what do you do when your AAA Plus is all used up??
Any other similar options out there?

jak112460

Issues aside, I believe that once you step over the realm of bone stock, the ATI setup offers better choices. I like the Vortech better in theory. If you know of anyone doing an 8 rib pulley setup with a Vortech blower and after cooler, I would be interested in getting their name. The 8 rib is the key in my opinion. Vortech guys are limited because of the 6 rib setup. It requires a rediculous amount of tweaking with shims. The potential for parts to shift and bend slightly make the 6 rib a very weak cog.

MelloYellow

The ATI Aftermarket is definitely more mature/better than the C5 Vortech. A&A, MDMC, Custom Brackets, Tensioner Setups, 8-Rib Pulleys, etc.

If my current setup spacer/shim doesn't hold up for both my S-Trim and T-Trim I will be measuring out an 8-Rib setup. JB is running one, but I'm not sure how much different his kit is.

Our clearance with this kit is so tight I'm not sure we can squeeze in an 8-rib. My mechanic thinks it may work, but it's very tight. Hopefully I won't need it.

The ATI placement on the passenger side and the belt/bracket designs are more prone to slippage than the Vortech at least on paper. I sure hope this is the end of my headaches. Hopefully off to the dyno tomorrow then run the car hard for the next 2 days to see if the belt jumps.

Bigben

Great thread guys this info may help some of the rest of us Vortech people in the future. I have a quick question for both of you. Did either of you have any significant problems when you were running the stock Vortech kit? It sounds like where the problem starts in when people start changing out to more agressive pulleys/cogs.

I have an S-trim with head and cam and have had no problems, but I am also running the stock kit right now. I have considered forging then uping the boost, but your posts don't do much to encourage me to go in that direction

MelloYellow

The Stock Kit with the stock .7" Alternator spacers are the main problem. The .74" are the best it seems. My stock kit had problems out of the box. I did start with the 28 Cog, so load may enhance these issues.. Good point. But the same alignment problem should affect all kits.

The driver side pulleys, idlers, jackshaft and cog have never had a jumping problem. It can be very confusing to troubleshoot since you have to catch the belt when it starts to come off to find the source the the problem. A broken or completely thrown belt won't tell you much.

I'm not sure what size alternator spacers are being shipped right now. It's only between 1/16 to 1/32 different, but it makes a difference. If I was doing a stock install I'd start with the .74" ones and leave everything else the same.

When you have problems Vortech recommend the short tensioner spacer change by itself or in combination with the alternator spacers done at the same time, which I believe is bad info.

You should just stick with the .74 Alt Mod and maybe shim the tensioner idler further with .030 shims if you need more clearance on the tensioner idler to keep the belt off the shoulder of that tensioner smooth pulley.

All of this relates to the passenger side tensioner idler being the source of belt jumping problems and methods/shims/spacers to align that piece properly.

7LitreC5

So how are you reving and watching it at 5000 rpms. Is this being done in neutral while stopped?

I am going to fiddle with spacers and shims this evening and see if I can figure anything out.

7LitreC5

Other than changing out the spacers that Vortech has sent me, my kit is stock. I am running the 30 tooth jackshaft and 30 tooth blower pulley setup that comes in some of the kits.

I think that part of the problem with my installation is that my kit was one of the first produced when they became available in October 2002.

Mark

7LitreC5

I'd like to think that the kits currently being produced are better than my early kit. I don't know though.

Vortech C5

Hello,
I don't know if it helps or not, but I have over 10,000 miles on mine and have had it for over 2 years with NO issues what so ever. As a matter of fact it was the best mod I ever did. I have a buddy with a Z06 that has had similar results to mine. There is a tuner/install shop named Extreme motoring in conoga park, CA that did his install. They sell a tone of the corvette vortech kits without issues as well. If you would like their phone number, let me know....

MelloYellow

I've been beating on the setup the last 2 days.

Major improvement. Not a single problem so far.
I think I threw 5 belts and had the head unit off 6-8 times before we got this perfect setup.

Zero belt dust.
It's scary perfect so far. Knock on wood.


I'm probably driving it at 80-90% my normal aggresive style.
Seems to be holding up great.
I highly recc this spacer setup:

Qty 2 - 1.277" Tensioner Spacers
Qty 3 - .74" Alternator Spacers

Also consider an extra .030 shim under each tensioner spacer. You have to eye the distance between the belt and the 1-shoulder edge to determine necessity. I would do it also. The pulley is large enough to tolerate another .030 spacer/shim which moves the belt away from the shoulder (most important).

P.S.S. Using Qty 2 of the stock .7" Alternator spacers work great to shim the Air/Water Radiator up a bit higher to a better air/cooling position than where Vortech places it behind the air dam.

7LitreC5

I have mine almost ready to run. I have the head unit and aftercooler off. I changed out the spacers, plugged the aftrecooler lines, plugged the oil lines, and disconnected the relay trigger wire for the aftercooler pump relay. I am going to run it with all of the Vortech bracketry and pulleys in place and see what things look like. It looks wierd though without every square inch in front of the engine filled with stuff...

I am not sure that I will be able to make it back down to Pueblo for another test on drag radials since that is the only time that mine fails. We are running out of racing season here...

The funny thing is that with all of my belt problems I have never had any belt dust at all. I inspected things yesterday when I pulled it apart and there still isn't any.

Bigben

Do either of you know with the T Trim hybrid upgrade does Vortech use the original head unit casing? You know, the one with the EO number stamped on it .

MelloYellow

Think it should, unless Vortech removes it. The CARB tag is on the V2 SQ gears which are kept for the new setup. The Volute & Impeller are changed.

7LitreC5

Hmm, that's interesting. Mine does not have an EO number. I purchased mine before Vortech had gotten the EO approval. I wonder if they'd add one to mine...

Bigben

Yeah I had that same problem too. Somehow it got stamped on there . It doesn't look that great. I had called they said that the head unit is not approved that only the complete kit was approved I have a complete kit installed by a Vortech dealer AA and they said sorry didn't buy the whole kit so no EO for you.

These people don't give a rats tail about custom satisfaction (I am talking about Vortech not Andy) No flame of Andy here.

MrBill

Just wanted to comment. My system shredded a belt back in March the same way, through the headliner...etc. Not a problem for 5k miles from the install to then, no sign of abnormal belt wear...nothing. It shreeded it on a 6k rpm shift from 3rd to 4th.

New belt, ran fine for 5k miles, took it back to the dragstrip. Ran fine there too...then one week later. Bye bye belt.

Wanna know the root cause? You'll love this:
The factory smooth idler you put on the upper power steering idler pilot. It seized up, caused the belt to rip the PS pulley apart, etc. When I talked to some of my local tuners, they've seen that pulley lock up even on head/cam cars and suggested that might have been what caused the belt problem in March.

Vortech is sending me out a new bracket assembly because of potential damage there, and i'm going to put a new factory idler on...then trailering to the dragstrip. If I can get 10-15 runs in on the quarter mile with no sign of belt kablooie, i'll be satisfied that i'm fixed. I used the spacers described above when I setup my alternator side idler/tensioner (stock tensioner).

Anybody know if there's a manufacturer for a better PS upper idler that can handle the RPMs? It seems like all the FI jobs that throw belts suffer from that (this is the same idler that is on the factory PS bracket that likes to lockup on the ATI installations according to some of the local tuners).

MelloYellow

Spent a lot of time on the phone today with Vortech.

There are at least 3 versions of the kit since release. There were 2 early versions and a later 'final' version.

My kit was the 2nd early version. I had 2 Silver 1.277" Tensioner Spacers and a Silver Alternator bracket, but with the shorter .7" Alternator spacers.

The new Vortech kits are shipping with the exact spacer setup that worked for us and was described above. New Vortech kits all include the .74" Alternator spacers.

Have some other info re: the T-Trim upgrade also. Will post tonight or in another thread in future.

7LitreC5

MrBill, thanks for the info about that idler. I checked mine and it seems ok. Is it obvious when it goes bad?

MelloYellow, I am very interested in the T-Trim info (and a contact at Vortech), I want to send mine in while it is off of the car.

Who gave you all of that info about the different kit versions? They sure need to get that info to their tech guys. Whenever I talk to them they act like they have never heard of insert_problem_here no matter what it is. It sure would be nice to talk to someone who knows all of the deatils. My kit is the 1st early version. Maybe that is why I am having more problems.

You guys now have me thinking that there may be hope for mine. Maybe I'll try to get some more parts from Vortech and try it again...

Yano

Thought I would throw my .02 in here.

I have a 2003 ZO6 with the RMCR kit. I have about 5000 miles and just over 15 months with the kit on.

A few items, my intake air pipe does rub just a tiny bit on my old hood. It had a crease line where you could see it was touching. My Halltech Stinger hood fixed that.

I did seem to have some belt dust on my engine when the kit was first put on but doesnt appear to be any new dust.

Of the guys in the area I have put up the best E/T with the low 5lbs of boost I was running, a 12.0x Some of the guys have FI and are running 6-9lbs of boost and I think the next fastest guy was Mark at 12.5 and then the poor pickle with 9lbs of boost and his 13.3 (so he was on street tires)

My Vortech broke. I did a post on it about a month ago. Vortech tried to say it was from compressor surge but at the time I was running about 2lbs of boost. So little chance of that. Their bearings died.

One cool thing about the RMCR kit was I called them up and said this thing is making a horrible sound. He came to my house started the car, and said yep bad bearings in the vortech. He then cut the belts that run the 8rib pulley to the SC. Started the car back up and took my car to his shop. I thought that was pretty cool. Broken Vortech but could still drive my car as if it were stock. Where Mark had to spend $168 and have his car towed, a simple pocket knife and I could be back in business.

I did take Mellow Yellows advice and shipped my Vortech back and did the T-Trim SQ upgrade. I was told I got a Heavy Duty T-trim with the SQ gear set. So I think I got a brand new unit, and I was also told I have the 2nd one in existence(so far). I plan on running the smallest pulley and hope to hit around 12lbs of boost. I will check to see if the RMCR kit has any belt slip at that point.

My car should be ready by Saturday of this week or early next week. I am just waiting on my LG motorsports headers to be re-JET HOT COATED. The coating came off prematurely. I am being told it is because I did dyno runs too early before the headers had a chance to season.

I will keep you posted on the new RMCR kit with the new T-Trim SQ and my 12lbs of boost.

Good Luck Mark

Bryan

MelloYellow

Hey Mark:
I started a new thread with some S-Trim to V2 SQ T-Trim Upgrade info.

Bryan:
Definitely keep us posted!
I should be ordering mine later this week and have it installed in 3 weeks.

Are you planning to keep the the stock aftercooler?
Wondering how the aftercooler as a restriction might affect us. RMCR have any thoughts?

Am hoping to see 11-12psi also. The T-Trim has a much better effeciency map for my motor setup, also I'm over-spinning the S-Trim right now.

I'm going to spin the T-Trim arond 54,000rpm at 6400rpm with the 28 Cog setup.