I dare you to post something like that in OT. They will hand you your liberal azz. That said, you make good points. I doubt Lexus would see the same problems continue for years.-column lock, leaking diff, pass window motors,....I love this car but come on GM. These problems were there in '97 and some C6s are now seeing the same things. That just is not right. Any other company that ignored their problems might face bankruptcy. Oh wait, nevermind.

 

ouch......

 

I met a guy this past weekend at a gas station. I was filling my '53 Kaiser Traveler for the winter, so it attracted this guys attention. Seems that he is an engineer for CR. He designs most of the equipement including the 5 mph crash machine. It's all pretty sophisticated stuff and they are particular in making sure the reports are unbiased. Corvettes don't get much testing because of the sports car category, so what you get are kind of the secondary reports by feedback, not actual tests that CR does. As far as being biased against U.S., He said the car that tested the best for skid control and overall feel and quality was the Cadillac, followed by BMW and then Audi. This guy owns over 90 cars himself (he's actually a Volvo nut) but does know his cars as he used to race at Connecticut Dragway in the 60s,the facility is now the one that CR uses for their auto testing!

 

Next time if you see him around ask him how they determine "Predicted Reliability". Do they call one of those 900 numbers...

 

oh yeah....since they don't rate American cars as the best in all categories, they must be a rag magazine. Lord knows it couldn't be that Toyota and Honda truely make a more reliable car. I was once like all of you guy's that think the American car is king ****, and that all foreign car's are rice burners. Until one day, I truely had my eyes opened up.

I had lost my Network Engineering job after 9/11/05, and could not find another job in that field after 3 months of searching. I was finally down to my last penny and had no choice but to look for something in another line of work. A friend of mine was a sales manager at our local Toyota dealership and offered me a job as a sales consultant. My first reaction was NO WAY in hell am I going to sell those rice burning pieces of crap. Well after a couple of days without food, I decided I had to give it a try. Luckily (or so I thought) we also sold Cadillac, GMC, and Oldsmobile. I figured I could still sell GM stuff even though I was stuck over at the Toyota section. The first three months, I sold several GM cars and several Toyota vehicle's. You would not believe the number of GM cars (Cadillac's included) that I had customer's come back and complain about check engine lights, interior trim falling apart, power windows inop., and I even had a customer come back within 2 weeks of buying an Envoy with his bumper falling off! Not ONE of the Toyota's that I had sold came back with a single problem. Also during those first 3 month's, you would not believe the customer's that would come in with their 200,000 to 300,000 mile Corolla's and Camry's. And when asked what they had done to their car's during ownership, most common response was "put tire's on it and change the oil"! My response was; no alternator's, power window motors, water pumps, etc.? They would say no, why? I just couldn't believe it, I thought it was normal for this stuff to go bad....Alternator's @ 60-70,000 miles, water pump's @ 70-80,000 miles, window motor's whenever (anytime). It just doesn't happen!

Now I'm not saying that every once in a while you won't get a bad part, but your chances of having an issue are GREATLY reduced. Another example: Guide Lamp that makes headlights and tailights for GM, had a large factory in our city. One day there was a guy out on the lot taking pictures of our headlights on some of the Toyota's. I went out to ask him what he was doing and he told me he was from Guide, and they were trying to get a contract with Toyota. He said one of the main reason's they haven't been able to in the past is due to Toyota's strict quality control. Toyota require's that only 3 parts per million parts manufactured can be defective. GM's requirements are only 2,200 parts per million allowed defective. If you think about all of the parts that go into a car, this open's the GM car buyer up to a bigger chance of getting defective or sub-par parts on their vehicles.

Now I know alot of you will probably flame me for what I have said. That's fine, I used to do it to.....until I got educated. I love my Corvette for fun to drive, but will only drive my Toyota when I need to drive something I can rely on. My $.02!

 

Yeah, well then explain to me how a 2001 Toyota Corrolla's manual transmission gets destroyed in 90k of hwy driving with all of its recomended services performed? And no, it wasn't beat up or pounded, its a daily driver. My Buddy called me last night and gave me his tale of woe. Bottom line, needs new transmission and the usual associated components. Total estmate....a wopping $3844.00 with labor. Anyway, my old Ford Tunderbird TC with a 5 speed went 120k hwy before it needed a clutch and never needed trans even up to the day I got rid of it which was at 191k and I drove that car very hard at times. My present work van a Y2K GMC Savana presently has 215k miles and other than Tires, Brakes and usual maint Items, its only needed a fuel pump, and a starter.....in 215k miles. In the first 36000 miles of the warranty it never had to go in for any dealer service other than normal oil changes etc. So my .02 cents is that imports have their share of problems and short comings as well and Consumers Reports seems to conveniently miss those for some reason.

 

I read about consumer reports years ago. They rated the 83 corvette as not very reliable. Trouble is as far as I know the only 83 ever made is in the corvette museum. They also had a bad rating for the 82's manual trans. 82's the article said only came with an auto tranny.

 

i think what he is trying to say is OVERALL and by a large and clear perception,the Japanese brands are far better built and engineered than out domestic brands,ummmmm thats not exactly a secret,and it doesnt have anything to do with CR's ratings. im sure for every 1 japanese car having issues,you will get 10 domestic issues! just count all the imports you see on your way to work today,or coming home. is everyone wrong ?

 

I don't think that that is necessarly true. Far better built according to what standard? From what I've seen the Saturns according to Consumers own rating system for reliability have just as many "Better than Average" or "Much better than Average" marks as a Toyota or Honda, but it gets a black mark in its reliability verdict. Where as the Toyota Land Cruiser get 3 worse than Average marks in its 98 assesment but gets " Recommended Check" in its reliability rating. No bias eh?

 

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/aboutus/test.htm
I have no affiliation with CR, I don't even get the magazine, but I do find it interesting that whenever there is an article praising a Corvette, everyone jumps up and down for joy. Conversely, bad press coverage is predominately labelled as "biased". Ironically, that's a biased attitude in and of itself.

 

i know what your saying,seems that type of rating is confusing,but why all the imports around ? i dont think the Japanese brands are selling so well and GM and Ford are in major trouble because of CR.

 

I couldnt agree more!!!

 

May last 1994 honda civic was a complete and utter piece of poop..
Eventually the water pump failed on me in traffic at 55,000 miles, which instantly warped the head. The car had several other magor problems too, includeing a leaking roof that could not be fixed by the dealer.

Between my father and I over the last 20 years, we have probably owned 10 new Mustangs, 1 almost new Zo6, and about 5 hondas and Subarus between the two of us..

My experience is that the American cars held up just as well, if not better than the imports.

 

your expierences with the Honda weren't good,but it was rare compared to how many Civics are out there. your expierences with the domestics were good,but alas it to,was rare

 

To me the real proof is in the resale prices. Go look at 3 year old Ranger, Dakota, or S10 prices. Now go find a Tacoma that is the same year/ miles/ options/ condition. Even though the original prices are somewhat close, the resale prices are miles apart. From what I've seen the Toyotas cost about twice as much as the domestics.

 

youre all right with me but how do you contradict yourself immediately after your statement about the original prices being close ?

 

 

We considered a few used trucks a month or so back. Here is what I saw:All 4x4s,extended cabs.
a bunch of 2002 S10s V6 70K+/- miles all about $8500
98-00 Tacomas 120+K miles 10 K for ugly ones 13K for better ones
01,02 Tacomas with the same miles as the Chevys were $15K or so.
FWIW We also saw BN '05 Ex cab 4X4 Dakotas discounted to 17K
From what I remember, all the 00s- 02s from all the manufacturers actually sold for similiar prices. We ended up sticking with our Suburban that only sees about 7K miles a year.
Sorry to get this far off topic.

 

Even though the original prices are somewhat close, the resale prices are miles apart. From what I've seen the Toyotas cost about twice as much as the domestics.


how can they be close in price,then cost twice as much ? but your right, and i agree somewhat,but we are wayyyy off topic