Originally Posted by newyiddy20

i know what your saying,seems that type of rating is confusing,but why all the imports around ? i dont think the Japanese brands are selling so well and GM and Ford are in major trouble because of CR.

Originally Posted by Y2KC5NBM

oh yeah....since they don't rate American cars as the best in all categories, they must be a rag magazine. Lord knows it couldn't be that Toyota and Honda truely make a more reliable car. I was once like all of you guy's that think the American car is king ****, and that all foreign car's are rice burners. Until one day, I truely had my eyes opened up.

I had lost my Network Engineering job after 9/11/05, and could not find another job in that field after 3 months of searching. I was finally down to my last penny and had no choice but to look for something in another line of work. A friend of mine was a sales manager at our local Toyota dealership and offered me a job as a sales consultant. My first reaction was NO WAY in hell am I going to sell those rice burning pieces of crap. Well after a couple of days without food, I decided I had to give it a try. Luckily (or so I thought) we also sold Cadillac, GMC, and Oldsmobile. I figured I could still sell GM stuff even though I was stuck over at the Toyota section. The first three months, I sold several GM cars and several Toyota vehicle's. You would not believe the number of GM cars (Cadillac's included) that I had customer's come back and complain about check engine lights, interior trim falling apart, power windows inop., and I even had a customer come back within 2 weeks of buying an Envoy with his bumper falling off! Not ONE of the Toyota's that I had sold came back with a single problem. Also during those first 3 month's, you would not believe the customer's that would come in with their 200,000 to 300,000 mile Corolla's and Camry's. And when asked what they had done to their car's during ownership, most common response was "put tire's on it and change the oil"! My response was; no alternator's, power window motors, water pumps, etc.? They would say no, why? I just couldn't believe it, I thought it was normal for this stuff to go bad....Alternator's @ 60-70,000 miles, water pump's @ 70-80,000 miles, window motor's whenever (anytime). It just doesn't happen!

Now I'm not saying that every once in a while you won't get a bad part, but your chances of having an issue are GREATLY reduced. Another example: Guide Lamp that makes headlights and tailights for GM, had a large factory in our city. One day there was a guy out on the lot taking pictures of our headlights on some of the Toyota's. I went out to ask him what he was doing and he told me he was from Guide, and they were trying to get a contract with Toyota. He said one of the main reason's they haven't been able to in the past is due to Toyota's strict quality control. Toyota require's that only 3 parts per million parts manufactured can be defective. GM's requirements are only 2,200 parts per million allowed defective. If you think about all of the parts that go into a car, this open's the GM car buyer up to a bigger chance of getting defective or sub-par parts on their vehicles.

Now I know alot of you will probably flame me for what I have said. That's fine, I used to do it to.....until I got educated. I love my Corvette for fun to drive, but will only drive my Toyota when I need to drive something I can rely on. My $.02!

Originally Posted by TLS

You're right, they are not in trouble because of CR, or their true quality. They are in trouble because of perceived quality and the fact that with a few exceptions, the cars they are producing right now are boring If they would produce something with a little personality, they could sell all they can build. I have owned imports as well as all of the domestics, and to tell the truth, I have not had much trouble with any of them. I've kept all of the cars for a minimum of 200k with just normal maintenance on wear items and oil changes.

Originally Posted by craig04c5

How many exaust sysytems has he put on. Japanese exaust systems suck. Have to be replaced eavery 3 years.

Originally Posted by Red Racer

Wanna buy a toaster? Check Consumer Reports Magazine.

Wanna buy a car? Check CAR magazines...

'Nuff said.

Originally Posted by newyiddy20

i know what your saying,seems that type of rating is confusing,but why all the imports around ? i dont think the Japanese brands are selling so well and GM and Ford are in major trouble because of CR.

Originally Posted by Y2KC5NBM

They sure do, that's why my friend's '98 Toyota LandCruiser has 160,000 miles on it and has the original exhaust. And my other buddies '00 Toyota Tundra with 127,000 miles on it with his original exhaust. Oh, and I forgot....my other friend's '00 Tundra with 118,000 miles on it with original exhaust. It's crazy how they wear out in 3 years.

Originally Posted by Tsab

True, but.......what I'm trying to point out is that CR is not totaly Un-biased in its ratings. Another example is the GEO Prizim which is a Toyota Corrolla with a GEO Badge. Assembled in the same plant with the same parts by the same people yet the Toyota gets a higher rating. I don't think CR is very accurate with its automotive test reports. I would have to say my Corvette is handles well and is very agile.

And here is another little tid bit for you all. On page 39 of Novembers Car and Driver seems that some of the Imports are having trouble with a new SAE Horse Power test. The procedures, which were revised in 8/04 mandate several standards for items such as, exhaust back pressure,engine oil, number of accessories attached to the engine. It also requires a 3rd party witness to oversee the test and report the numbers. Th 2006 Z06 which orginally was said to have 500 tested out at 505hp. Toyota and Honda didn't see gains, their numbers went down
some by as much as 20hp.


Hey, check this out Joan Claybrook former secratary of transportation for the Carter Administration and the person who brought you the infamous 85 mph speedometer, and the motorcycle that steers from the rear, is on the Board of Directors at Consumer Reports. I guess I'll have to go light my fireplace now....

Originally Posted by jrose7004

I don't think you can really trust what they have to say about anything!

Originally Posted by newyiddy20

i dont know how they figure things out at CR, imho,if i have this right,there are no advertisments there so.......i can't figure on why there would be an anti-domestic bias. as a matter of fact,Car and Driver,Motor Trend and the others have LOADS of advertisments and they too,after many years of reading them have placed our domestics behind imports too! and i think they would have more of a reason to be biased there,yet no one heres says a thing when these"percieved" professionals critique domestic brands! so my fellow Vette owners,hows that answered?

Originally Posted by Tsab

True, but.......what I'm trying to point out is that CR is not totaly Un-biased in its ratings. Another example is the GEO Prizim which is a Toyota Corrolla with a GEO Badge. Assembled in the same plant with the same parts by the same people yet the Toyota gets a higher rating. I don't think CR is very accurate with its automotive test reports.

Ok no advertisements, so how did the Prizim a Toyota Corrolla with a Geo badge get a lower rating from Consumers when its the same car?
In regard to the Auto Magazines, I usually find their assessments more fact than fiction. Consumers Reports also accepts donations.....whats from stopping them from taking a donation from a foreign car company directly or through a third party?

Originally Posted by Tsab

I was in the Supermarket tonight and just for heck of it I picked up Consumer Reports just to see if the "Buying Guide" had some kind of objective write up on the Corvette. (why I even bothered is still beyond me ) I don't know about you guys but I think that consumers is extremely biased esp when it comes to auto's. The write up on the Corvette went something like "The ride is comfortable, and handling is capable but less agile than other sports cars". ??? First off, I'm not a fan of consumers reports when it come to autos, I like the reports from C&D's long term tests as well as the long term tests from Popular Mechanics but my opinion is that bascially that CR won't grade an American Car highly simply because its an American Car. What the heck do they know about Sports Cars anyway?? Anyway, just felt like venting since I don't think the American Manufacturers are being given a fair shake.

Originally Posted by 99 TorchRed

Whether you like or agree with CR in their opinions, they DO seem to reflect the buying habits of the average US citizen. Japanese cars are fast overtaking all US auto manufacturers, and there's little doubt that their quality is superior to most cars produced by Ford, Chrysler, and GM. Quality equals happy customers, which in turn equals repeat customers.

Notably, the only used Corvette that CR touts as acceptable is the 1999 model.

Having owned many Chevrolets, Chryslers, and Fords, I'd say CR is right on the money about many of the "faults" in the "American" cars, including faults that Chevrolet keeps building into the Corvette year after year.

Originally Posted by Greg Gore

Agile to CR means a "Honda Civic" would be more appealing to a "greenie". Greenies make up most of their readership which is why they have become so political. I will quote an example: Back in the early Nineties I was going to school and needed an econobox. I was driving 100 miles one way and became interested in the Geo Metro (I know... ). I read the CR reports which stated the car was good around town but not recommended for trips. My experience was exactly the opposite. The little car which had 54 horsepower had a tough time in town because it was so slow you could not pull out in traffic and it would hold everyone up taking off from a light. On the otherhand, after you wound it up to 70 or 75 mph it would happily run there all day. The seat went further back than most too so it was comfortable (as much as you could expect I guess) on trips. I do recommend CR for wrapping fish or for a bird cage liner.

Regards, Greg

Originally Posted by Dave68

For the most part, their survey results have been dead-on for the products I buy. They are not biased; they just call it as they see it, nothing more.

Originally Posted by Tsab

True, but.......what I'm trying to point out is that CR is not totaly Un-biased in its ratings. Another example is the GEO Prizim which is a Toyota Corrolla with a GEO Badge. Assembled in the same plant with the same parts by the same people yet the Toyota gets a higher rating. I don't think CR is very accurate with its automotive test reports.

Ok no advertisements, so how did the Prizim a Toyota Corrolla with a Geo badge get a lower rating from Consumers when its the same car?
In regard to the Auto Magazines, I usually find their assessments more fact than fiction. Consumers Reports also accepts donations.....whats from stopping them from taking a donation from a foreign car company directly or through a third party?