I suppose they would also find the Z06 not as "agile" as other sports cars!
Consumer Bias
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,843
Likes: 2
From: West Michigan
St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'08-'11, '14
[QUOTE=Y2KC5NBM] These ratings come from the latest Consumer Reports Annual Questionnaire that draws responses from 675,000 subscriber-owned vehicles QUOTE]
It's funny you should mention this, I was watching MotorWeek on Speed Channel a couple of weeks ago, and there was a representative of CR on the show. He was asked about their ratings and his response was that a lot of the information came from the surveys, when it was pointed out that this was a limited view and other people may have different opinions, he came right out and said that the magazine is written for their subscribers and that they were the people that mattered to CR.
It's funny you should mention this, I was watching MotorWeek on Speed Channel a couple of weeks ago, and there was a representative of CR on the show. He was asked about their ratings and his response was that a lot of the information came from the surveys, when it was pointed out that this was a limited view and other people may have different opinions, he came right out and said that the magazine is written for their subscribers and that they were the people that mattered to CR.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 829
Likes: 0
From: Katy TX
Originally Posted by screamindman
CR Magazine is very reliable for lighting my fireplace. 
You got it!! And Motor Trend gives the Civic car of the year. I love car mags but come on who subscribes to a mag like that and would actually drive a civic??
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,988
Likes: 16
From: Hooterville, NJ
Originally Posted by Y2KC5NBM
Well I went back to my old 2003 and 2004 Consumer Reports auto issues and checked out your claims. If you actually look at the back of the book where the reliablility histories are, there are 14 categories in which the vehicles are rated. These ratings come from the latest Consumer Reports Annual Questionnaire that draws responses from 675,000 subscriber-owned vehicles (this comes directly from page 5 in consumer reports). When looking at these ratings, the '01 & '02 Prizm actually scores higher than the Corolla.
You ask how can the ratings be different? Well because the Consumer's are the ones rating the vehicles. So, some things could vary.....but when looking at the ratings, they are very similar. And, the Prizm is the ONLY Chevy to be a "Good Bet" when purchasing a used car! I wonder why? Maybe because it's got a Toyota drivetrain? You betcha!
You ask how can the ratings be different? Well because the Consumer's are the ones rating the vehicles. So, some things could vary.....but when looking at the ratings, they are very similar. And, the Prizm is the ONLY Chevy to be a "Good Bet" when purchasing a used car! I wonder why? Maybe because it's got a Toyota drivetrain? You betcha!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,841
Likes: 19
From: CLT, North Carolina
Look at CR's Website- Infested with "Green"
They are catering to their readership base which is a bunch of "greenies." Greenies aren't concerned about pushing the front end on entry and loose off. Greenies are more concerned about how the car feels at 55 MPH and if the cup holders are conveniently located or if was made with non-union labor. Greenies are more concerned about the cars impact on the environment!! The Corvette would have scored better with them had it been a hybrid. Green is stupid...green is the reason we are all driving around with 10% less efficient R-134 air conditioning. This was done to supposedly protect the ozone layer from fluorocarbon attacks. They didn't tell you that a typical volcano erruption releases far more fluorocarbon into the atmosphere than all the R-12 in all the worlds refrigeration systems combined. Happy motoring!!
Greg
Greg
Last edited by Greg Gore; Dec 10, 2005 at 08:43 AM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,146
Likes: 0
From: The Internet
This is from the 2004 survey which is online at my library. It certainly seems apt when you read this forum and, in fact, I am sure we know people it applies to who don't drive a Corvette either. Odd, though, the writer must not have not know about the CR bias rule because they also say bad things about non-US cars. Obviously a mistake on their part.
Look, you know, at the end of the day our Corvettes are just cars. So someone doesn't write an article pampering our egos. Does that mean they are wrong? I realise that many like to baby their cars, and having your baby called ugly is pretty tough. But, these are not real babies, they are metal and plastic ones. Our cars will get over it and won't grow up with emotional scars. Really they won't. Hopefully, we owners won't either.
LOVE IS MYOPIC (IF NOT BLIND)
Every year, shortly after we publish our reliability survey, we hear from a small number of subscribers who want to let us know how reliable their particular car is, despite what our survey said about it.
We suspect that we'll hear from the lucky owners who haven't had much trouble. Our 2003 survey showed below average reliability for the Subaru BaJa. But a Virginia owner of one said, "I love my BaJa as my wife loves her 2003 Forester. I have owned so-so vehicles in my life, but I put my BaJa up there with my first car, a used '5O Plymouth."
We're also surprised at what some readers consider "reliable." Philip Salley, of Del Mar, Calif., told us that his Corvette was the most reliable car he'd owned in 40 years. Even so, he had replaced brake rotors, the muffler, an air-conditioner control, and a wheel bearing-all within the first 44,000 miles.
Then there are the people who seem to like their cars-even ones with sub-par reliability-because they attract attention. For example, Robert Tureaud, of Taylor, Texas, who owns a Mini Cooper, said, "It has run flawlessly since day one, the fit and finish is excellent, and everyone wants to know all about it."
Bernard Swiecki, an analyst at the Center for Automotive Research, in Ann Arbor, Mich., says: "There's an enduring belief that any initial problems will go away, especially if the car is perceived as cool to begin with. Some brands just have a mystique about them." case in point is the Volkswagen Touareg owned by RJ. O'Connor of Parker, CoIo.: "When it's running properly, it's great to drive. But it's been back in the shop at least seven times and sometimes I want to drive it off a cliff. I still love it, though."
Every year, shortly after we publish our reliability survey, we hear from a small number of subscribers who want to let us know how reliable their particular car is, despite what our survey said about it.
We suspect that we'll hear from the lucky owners who haven't had much trouble. Our 2003 survey showed below average reliability for the Subaru BaJa. But a Virginia owner of one said, "I love my BaJa as my wife loves her 2003 Forester. I have owned so-so vehicles in my life, but I put my BaJa up there with my first car, a used '5O Plymouth."
We're also surprised at what some readers consider "reliable." Philip Salley, of Del Mar, Calif., told us that his Corvette was the most reliable car he'd owned in 40 years. Even so, he had replaced brake rotors, the muffler, an air-conditioner control, and a wheel bearing-all within the first 44,000 miles.
Then there are the people who seem to like their cars-even ones with sub-par reliability-because they attract attention. For example, Robert Tureaud, of Taylor, Texas, who owns a Mini Cooper, said, "It has run flawlessly since day one, the fit and finish is excellent, and everyone wants to know all about it."
Bernard Swiecki, an analyst at the Center for Automotive Research, in Ann Arbor, Mich., says: "There's an enduring belief that any initial problems will go away, especially if the car is perceived as cool to begin with. Some brands just have a mystique about them." case in point is the Volkswagen Touareg owned by RJ. O'Connor of Parker, CoIo.: "When it's running properly, it's great to drive. But it's been back in the shop at least seven times and sometimes I want to drive it off a cliff. I still love it, though."
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 924
Likes: 161
From: Atwater CA
2024 C7 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
Originally Posted by chocoholic
Look, you know, at the end of the day our Corvettes are just cars. So someone doesn't write an article pampering our egos. Does that mean they are wrong? I realise that many like to baby their cars, and having your baby called ugly is pretty tough. But, these are not real babies, they are metal and plastic ones. Our cars will get over it and won't grow up with emotional scars. Really they won't. Hopefully, we owners won't either.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,146
Likes: 0
From: The Internet
Originally Posted by Greg Gore
Green is stupid...green is the reason we are all driving around with 10% less efficient R-134 air conditioning. This was done to supposedly protect the ozone layer from fluorocarbon attacks. They didn't tell you that a typical volcano eruption releases far more fluorocarbon into the atmosphere than all the R-12 in all the worlds refrigeration systems combined. Happy motoring!!
Greg
Greg
Just to put it in perspective. The hole in the Ozone Layer is a modern thing. Volcanoes are not. I'm pretty certain that no-one rewrote the Volcano program 30 years ago in order to suddenly emit CFCs.
Lastly, out of interest, take a walk in your neighbourhood, make it a square mile and count the number of motor vehicles you see. A rough count will do. Whilst you're at it, count the number of active volcanoes that you see - try to be exact here. Write the number of cars on the top line and the number of volcanoes on the bottom line and let us know how that ratio turns out for you.
Although, of course, having typed all this, I suddenly realise that there's always the possibility that reports of the hole in the Ozone Layer are really part of the malfeasant plot by Consumer Reports to discredit the US Automobile industry and ruin our economy.
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,094
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by chocoholic
Whilst not playing for the "Greenie" team, someone needs to point out that your information is inaccurate and seeing as the US is generally regarded as one of the world's largest polluters (if not the worst) that's rather sad. If you care, you can research where your misinformation came from but you'll find it was based on some conjecture of an event a long time ago using some figures that look to pretty much been disproved. But, please, research it for yourself.
Just to put it in perspective. The hole in the Ozone Layer is a modern thing. Volcanoes are not. I'm pretty certain that no-one rewrote the Volcano program 30 years ago in order to suddenly emit CFCs.
Lastly, out of interest, take a walk in your neighbourhood, make it a square mile and count the number of motor vehicles you see. A rough count will do. Whilst you're at it, count the number of active volcanoes that you see - try to be exact here. Write the number of cars on the top line and the number of volcanoes on the bottom line and let us know how that ratio turns out for you.
Although, of course, having typed all this, I suddenly realise that there's always the possibility that reports of the hole in the Ozone Layer are really part of the malfeasant plot by Consumer Reports to discredit the US Automobile industry and ruin our economy.
Just to put it in perspective. The hole in the Ozone Layer is a modern thing. Volcanoes are not. I'm pretty certain that no-one rewrote the Volcano program 30 years ago in order to suddenly emit CFCs.
Lastly, out of interest, take a walk in your neighbourhood, make it a square mile and count the number of motor vehicles you see. A rough count will do. Whilst you're at it, count the number of active volcanoes that you see - try to be exact here. Write the number of cars on the top line and the number of volcanoes on the bottom line and let us know how that ratio turns out for you.
Although, of course, having typed all this, I suddenly realise that there's always the possibility that reports of the hole in the Ozone Layer are really part of the malfeasant plot by Consumer Reports to discredit the US Automobile industry and ruin our economy.
that is something to consider
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 223
Likes: 0
From: Peoria Arizona
CR has its limits
if your penny pinching for the best toaster or even digital camera, sure use em, but for a $50,000 item? also you get what you pay for, 3 bucks for a mag... you get 3 dollars worth of advice.
Racer
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 361
Likes: 0
From: Calgary Alberta
It is the same with when we bought our 2005 Mercedes E-500 sport. Sure, its a merc, got great reviews, but guess what.......PIECE OF CRAP! Mercs arent waht they used to be apparently. C&D doesnt have a clue with what they are doing, and havent for a long time. It is better to talk to someone who owns the car you want, has driven other cars that are in that class befor eyou buy than read that!
Just my two bits
Justin
Just my two bits
Justin
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,094
Likes: 0
again, and i could be wrong, doesnt CR base its ratings(at least partially) on owners surveys ? how would that be biased ? and i think the big difference here is that most owners feel passionately about their automobiles and dont deal rationally when it comes to critisism about them.the good thing with CR is that they dont look at the automobile any different than a toaster! bottom line: they are still mass produced appliances and toasters last longer and are more reliable 
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,841
Likes: 19
From: CLT, North Carolina
We Need Greenies Help??
You are in serious error Mr. chocoholic. How long do you think we have had the technology to find holes in the ozone layer? We are still discovering planets for crying out loud! It has been well established that a single volcano eruption discharges far more fluorocarbons into the Earth's atmosphere than all the refrigeration units contain in the entire world. I would suggest you do the research on this one. The Earth and the environment have always gone through naturally occurring cycles just like sunspots on the sun. Take the so called global warming agenda that some would like to have us all believe. It doesn't hold water my friend! These are trends that throughout the history of the world ebb and flow and reverse themselves over the course of years and years, however, you and I may not be here long enough to see it. All of this nonsense has its roots in the agenda of far left wackos that want to remove the Ten Commandments, stop prayer, rename Christmas into "the holidays" (holiday trees) and take away folks Christmas manger displays. May I suggest you spend your time more productively worrying about what Islamic radicals will do when they finally get their hands on some Nuclear material or do you believe this can't happen? For example, ever considered what would happen if a ship launched Scud with a warhead was exploded at 300 miles altitude over the US?
Have a nice day!
Greg
Have a nice day!
Greg
Last edited by Greg Gore; Dec 11, 2005 at 07:45 AM.
Drifting
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,941
Likes: 1
From: Central CA
Originally Posted by Red Racer
Wanna buy a toaster? Check Consumer Reports Magazine.
Wanna buy a car? Check CAR magazines...
'Nuff said.
Wanna buy a car? Check CAR magazines...
'Nuff said.
Like said above.. The truth hurts sometimes...
Here's a similar scenario.... You have a gun "nut", who loves .50 BMG rifles, he has one, and has upgraded the barrell and the trigger and the stock... etc... He reads a review on his .50 BMG in the "Shoot 'Em Wild" gun magazine... he is going to hear a review thats really different from a magazine like "Practical Guns Weekly"... isn't he?!? He will read in the latter, that the gun is not practical, and over priced, and unreliable... whereas he will read from the first, how "bitchin" the gun is, and how one cant live without it...
See what I mean... Its all perspective...
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,146
Likes: 0
From: The Internet
Originally Posted by Greg Gore
It has been established that a single volcano eruption discharges far more fluorocarbons into the Earth's atmosphere than all the refrigeration units contain in the entire world.
Have a nice day!
Greg
Have a nice day!
Greg
As for the other stuff, OK, your penchant for unrelated [emotional] arguments and refusing to check your facts makes it clear that logic is not welcome in this discussion so have at it. Enjoy your warm fuzzies and happy waxing. I'm off for a drive in the snow to Walmart then for Sunday worship of the great big green dragon that created the world.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,988
Likes: 16
From: Hooterville, NJ
Originally Posted by newyiddy20
again, and i could be wrong, doesnt CR base its ratings(at least partially) on owners surveys ? how would that be biased ? and i think the big difference here is that most owners feel passionately about their automobiles and dont deal rationally when it comes to critisism about them.the good thing with CR is that they dont look at the automobile any different than a toaster! bottom line: they are still mass produced appliances and toasters last longer and are more reliable
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,094
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Tsab
Yes they do base it on an owner survey and please tell me why the same car (Geo Prizim and Toyota Corrolla) have different reliability ratings (such as fuel system etc) in the Buyers Guide? If its the same car shouldn't they have compiled the Corrolla's and Prizims data together and come out with the same rating in each of those catagories? Built in the same factory and with the same components by the same people.
welcome back!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,059
Likes: 12
From: AKA Harvey Mushman-I know just enough to be dangerous "Those who sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither"- B. Franklin
Senior Member
Cruise-In V Veteran
Originally Posted by Tsab
Yes they do base it on an owner survey and please tell me why the same car (Geo Prizim and Toyota Corrolla) have different reliability ratings (such as fuel system etc) in the Buyers Guide? If its the same car shouldn't they have compiled the Corrolla's and Prizims data together and come out with the same rating in each of those catagories? Built in the same factory and with the same components by the same people.
but, there is one difference besides the emblems. While the cars are built together on the same line with the same parts, they get shipped to dealerships that are entirely different. My guess is that people have a better overall experience with the Toyota dealerships and that reflects positively in the surveys. I honestly feel that my local Chevy dealership is better than average because the other line they sell and service is Cadillac. Different brands go through different training.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,146
Likes: 0
From: The Internet
Originally Posted by Tsab
Yes they do base it on an owner survey and please tell me why the same car (Geo Prizim and Toyota Corrolla) have different reliability ratings (such as fuel system etc) in the Buyers Guide? If its the same car shouldn't they have compiled the Corrolla's and Prizims data together and come out with the same rating in each of those catagories? Built in the same factory and with the same components by the same people.