Settle an argument
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,267
Likes: 40
From: Phoenix AZ
Things I like about the Subaru:
Its quick.
It holds 5 people.
All wheel drive.
Things I hate about the Subaru:
Ugly as hell.
Every one of them wants to race you.
Interior sucks.
Not fast enough.
Things I like about the vette.
Its quick.
Its fast.
Its sexy.
It handles.
Its comfortable.
It gets good mileage.
A/H can save your A$$.
Things I hate about the Vette.
Everyone wants to race you.
$hit is expensive for anything.
Everyone stares at you at the light.
My blow gun wont fit in the console.
Its quick.
It holds 5 people.
All wheel drive.
Things I hate about the Subaru:
Ugly as hell.
Every one of them wants to race you.
Interior sucks.
Not fast enough.
Things I like about the vette.
Its quick.
Its fast.
Its sexy.
It handles.
Its comfortable.
It gets good mileage.
A/H can save your A$$.
Things I hate about the Vette.
Everyone wants to race you.
$hit is expensive for anything.
Everyone stares at you at the light.
My blow gun wont fit in the console.
Team Owner
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 21,473
Likes: 356
From: Palmdale, Ca----- 2009 Cyber Gray 4LT A6 F55 452 RWHP 422 RWTQ- RIP 1998 C5 734 RWHP & 585 RWTQ-----
I am not ignorant. I am sure it is a fast car. I happen to think that they are ugly as crap and I can think of about 100 cars I had rather drive. The Corvette has been around since 1953 and it is a legend. The box car will come and go but the Vette will still be here long after it is gone. 
Well said.
Well said.
It has nothing to do with ignorance for it is an opinion on what one likes!
I will continue to like my Vette and many others for a long time!
Thanks,Matt
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
From: Chardon OHIO
farty
It's a world class rally car, that runs through some of the most challenging race courses on the planet, requiring the highest level of skill to navigate. It takes on courses at high speeds that would literally tear the Corvette to pieces.
Yeah, who the **** would want something like that?
PS, the Subaru WRX's Boxer engine sounds much meaner than the LS1. It doesn't sound farty at all. In fact, its a deeper, richer sound entirely than the LS1.
I'm really disappointed by how ignorant and xenophobic many Corvette people insist on being.
Yeah, who the **** would want something like that?
PS, the Subaru WRX's Boxer engine sounds much meaner than the LS1. It doesn't sound farty at all. In fact, its a deeper, richer sound entirely than the LS1.
I'm really disappointed by how ignorant and xenophobic many Corvette people insist on being.
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
From: Chardon OHIO
give up like you said you were and get a life
Actually, the wave is very much alive in the Subaru community. 
I spend a lot of time on several Subie boards...
I've been to both types of GTGs.
Here are the general differences: Speaking for 80% of the population, accounting for 20% being the total opposite of what I say here:
Subaru guys are typically 18-30
Vette Guys are typically 30-60
Subaru guys stand around comparing turbo, suspension, and "JDM" styling changes.
Vette Guys compare floor mats, aftermarket leather, and engine bling.
Subaru Guys like to put Rally Car fog lights on their cars
Vette Guys like to make their coupes and convertibles look like Z06s
Subaru guys are impolite in a social setting, and like to rib each other, A LOT
Vette Guys are grumpy.
Subaru vendors find cool inexpensive stuff for the car, and sell it with a small profit.
Vette vendors find $3.99-8.99 stuff at local hardware stores, call it 'engineered for Corvettes' and sell it for up to ten times the cost.
Subaru guys are much more likely to race their car.
Vette guys are much more likely to wax their car.
Subaru guys talk about how cool random types of cars are.
Vette guys talk about how random types of cars are not Vettes.
Now before anyone gets butthurt, remember this only accounts for 8/10 of the folks I've met at either kind of get together.
Obviously there are many subaru owners who are only interested in "STI-ing" up their regular wrx (which is no different from z06-ing up a regular coupe, mho) and there are vette guys who only wax to keep the brake dust from getting imbedded on track day.
I spend a lot of time on several Subie boards...
I've been to both types of GTGs.
Here are the general differences: Speaking for 80% of the population, accounting for 20% being the total opposite of what I say here:
Subaru guys are typically 18-30
Vette Guys are typically 30-60
Subaru guys stand around comparing turbo, suspension, and "JDM" styling changes.
Vette Guys compare floor mats, aftermarket leather, and engine bling.
Subaru Guys like to put Rally Car fog lights on their cars
Vette Guys like to make their coupes and convertibles look like Z06s
Subaru guys are impolite in a social setting, and like to rib each other, A LOT
Vette Guys are grumpy.
Subaru vendors find cool inexpensive stuff for the car, and sell it with a small profit.
Vette vendors find $3.99-8.99 stuff at local hardware stores, call it 'engineered for Corvettes' and sell it for up to ten times the cost.
Subaru guys are much more likely to race their car.
Vette guys are much more likely to wax their car.
Subaru guys talk about how cool random types of cars are.
Vette guys talk about how random types of cars are not Vettes.
Now before anyone gets butthurt, remember this only accounts for 8/10 of the folks I've met at either kind of get together.
Obviously there are many subaru owners who are only interested in "STI-ing" up their regular wrx (which is no different from z06-ing up a regular coupe, mho) and there are vette guys who only wax to keep the brake dust from getting imbedded on track day.
how many bags of groceries can you get in that family 4 door?
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 30,897
Likes: 45
From: Picking on the weakest kid in the yard.
[QUOTE=chai1836;1558154921]I challenged a co-worker to find a car cheaper and faster (stock) than my stock Corvette, 2001 vert M6.
Um... A 2001 Corvette coupe. You should have defined faster and cheaper, but you should also have specified a convertable that is faster and cheaper because he is right if you go by cost when new and 0-60 or 1/4 mile.
Um... A 2001 Corvette coupe. You should have defined faster and cheaper, but you should also have specified a convertable that is faster and cheaper because he is right if you go by cost when new and 0-60 or 1/4 mile.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 30,897
Likes: 45
From: Picking on the weakest kid in the yard.
Check this site:
The 2006 WRX STI 0-60 is 4.5 1/4 mile 13.0
The 2001 Vert 0-60 5.1 1/4 mile 13.5
After the 1/4 mile he will be looking at your beautiful exhaust!!
[/QUOTE]
Only a looong way after, or if you catch him on the loser flyby after he slows down. .5 seconds in the 1/4 is a long way.
The 2006 WRX STI 0-60 is 4.5 1/4 mile 13.0
The 2001 Vert 0-60 5.1 1/4 mile 13.5
After the 1/4 mile he will be looking at your beautiful exhaust!!
[/QUOTE]Only a looong way after, or if you catch him on the loser flyby after he slows down. .5 seconds in the 1/4 is a long way.
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Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 30,897
Likes: 45
From: Picking on the weakest kid in the yard.
Now I understand that some people hate Japanese cars no-matter-what, and are angry at Japan over WWII... But many of them love Ferrari, Lamborghini, and even MBZ and BMW. wtf 
[/QUOTE]
I don't hate the Japanese, I hate the average American's assumption that Japanese cars are superior. Everybody knows that Japanese cars are light, quick, very advanced, non-poluting, fuel misers that never break down, right? And American cars are big, heavy, smoking, gas hog pieces of junk, right? I have owned and worked on Japanese. The Japanese superiority myth is
I fear and respect the STI. Very impressive car. But I have beat them at the track. Is there any stock Japanese car in history, at any price, sold in America, that is faster than my $20,000 Z06? I think not
[/QUOTE]I don't hate the Japanese, I hate the average American's assumption that Japanese cars are superior. Everybody knows that Japanese cars are light, quick, very advanced, non-poluting, fuel misers that never break down, right? And American cars are big, heavy, smoking, gas hog pieces of junk, right? I have owned and worked on Japanese. The Japanese superiority myth is
I fear and respect the STI. Very impressive car. But I have beat them at the track. Is there any stock Japanese car in history, at any price, sold in America, that is faster than my $20,000 Z06? I think not
Pro
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 605
Likes: 0
I don't hate the Japanese, I hate the average American's assumption that Japanese cars are superior. Everybody knows that Japanese cars are light, quick, very advanced, non-poluting, fuel misers that never break down, right? And American cars are big, heavy, smoking, gas hog pieces of junk, right? I have owned and worked on Japanese. The Japanese superiority myth is
When the "myth" of which you speak was born, it was generally true. The "Big Three" were resting on their laurels, convinced that people would "buy American", well, just because. They were making big, gas guzzling cars in the face of a national gas shortage because, well, that's how they'd always done it. They were not listening to their customers but rather assuming that they knew better what the customers really wanted. They were wrong, and they paid for it (and are still paying for it).
What Japanese cars are you comparing to what American cars? If you're comparing a Corolla to your Corvette, it's an unfair comparison.
I had a 1987 Camaro Iroc. The thing was a piece of junk. Plastic interior pieces were constantly breaking, the door wasn't aligned and was scratching off paint every time you opened/closed it, the clutch needed replacing before the third year, and so on. The dealership treated me like an inconvenience every time I took it in.
I bought a 1989 Supra Turbo and it was rock-solid reliable for the seven years I owned it. The service manager at the dealership called me by name, even though the only time I took it in was for routine maintenance.
American cars have gotten better in the last decade. The problem is that it takes at least 10 years for the perception of the public to change. And, even though the cars have gotten better, the dealership system has not.
Is there any stock Japanese car in history, at any price, sold in America, that is faster than my $20,000 Z06? I think not
"The turbocharged variant could achieve 0–60 mph in as low as 4.6 seconds and 1/4 mile (402 m) in 13.1 seconds at 109 mph."
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,997
Likes: 0
From: Clanton AL
Like any blanket statement, there is some truth and some untruth to it. There was also a time when "Made in Japan" meant junk. Remember the Datsuns of the early 70s?
When the "myth" of which you speak was born, it was generally true. The "Big Three" were resting on their laurels, convinced that people would "buy American", well, just because. They were making big, gas guzzling cars in the face of a national gas shortage because, well, that's how they'd always done it. They were not listening to their customers but rather assuming that they knew better what the customers really wanted. They were wrong, and they paid for it (and are still paying for it).
What Japanese cars are you comparing to what American cars? If you're comparing a Corolla to your Corvette, it's an unfair comparison.
I had a 1987 Camaro Iroc. The thing was a piece of junk. Plastic interior pieces were constantly breaking, the door wasn't aligned and was scratching off paint every time you opened/closed it, the clutch needed replacing before the third year, and so on. The dealership treated me like an inconvenience every time I took it in.
I bought a 1989 Supra Turbo and it was rock-solid reliable for the seven years I owned it. The service manager at the dealership called me by name, even though the only time I took it in was for routine maintenance.
American cars have gotten better in the last decade. The problem is that it takes at least 10 years for the perception of the public to change. And, even though the cars have gotten better, the dealership system has not.
The Mark IV Toyota Supra Twin Turbo? I dunno, just askin'.
"The turbocharged variant could achieve 0–60 mph in as low as 4.6 seconds and 1/4 mile (402 m) in 13.1 seconds at 109 mph."
When the "myth" of which you speak was born, it was generally true. The "Big Three" were resting on their laurels, convinced that people would "buy American", well, just because. They were making big, gas guzzling cars in the face of a national gas shortage because, well, that's how they'd always done it. They were not listening to their customers but rather assuming that they knew better what the customers really wanted. They were wrong, and they paid for it (and are still paying for it).
What Japanese cars are you comparing to what American cars? If you're comparing a Corolla to your Corvette, it's an unfair comparison.
I had a 1987 Camaro Iroc. The thing was a piece of junk. Plastic interior pieces were constantly breaking, the door wasn't aligned and was scratching off paint every time you opened/closed it, the clutch needed replacing before the third year, and so on. The dealership treated me like an inconvenience every time I took it in.
I bought a 1989 Supra Turbo and it was rock-solid reliable for the seven years I owned it. The service manager at the dealership called me by name, even though the only time I took it in was for routine maintenance.
American cars have gotten better in the last decade. The problem is that it takes at least 10 years for the perception of the public to change. And, even though the cars have gotten better, the dealership system has not.
The Mark IV Toyota Supra Twin Turbo? I dunno, just askin'.
"The turbocharged variant could achieve 0–60 mph in as low as 4.6 seconds and 1/4 mile (402 m) in 13.1 seconds at 109 mph."
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 30,897
Likes: 45
From: Picking on the weakest kid in the yard.
Criag, I agree almost entirely with your statement. But this is not 1983 anymore and I'm tired of the assumption. Only, I think dealerships are beside the piont. They are locally owned and have nothing to do with the vehicle. Ford, for example has biult some really horrible cars and some really great cars. Some Mustangs have been junk, others great. Each generation of each model deserves to be judged individually regardless of manufacturer or country of origin. The WRX absolutely deserves respect. I just happen to view it as the compitition. A car that I need to beat, not own.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 30,897
Likes: 45
From: Picking on the weakest kid in the yard.
As for the Supra being faster than my $20,000 Z06? Nope! I ran a 12.9@ 112 bone stock with 102,000 miles and bald Toyo Proxes'. I think the NSX might get me on the road course and several may have higher top speeds, but I don't think they have sold one here yet that can catch me in the 1/4.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,066
Likes: 0
St. Jude Donor '06
4.5 seconds 0-60, that's similar to Porsche 911's and Mustang Cobra's (390 hp) and a whole list of other exotics, etc.....Huh?? Is it strictly the all wheel drive (seems like that would increase the overall loss to the wheels) or just the tires (maybe a more logical cause).
Explain please
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 30,897
Likes: 45
From: Picking on the weakest kid in the yard.
I'm not sure anyone ever answered the original question, and I looked up those times you listed and confirmed them (whether either source is accurate). None the less, someone explain to me how a car rated with 50 less horsepower and 200 more pounds can run those times assuming the Vette numbers are accurate?
4.5 seconds 0-60, that's similar to Porsche 911's and Mustang Cobra's (390 hp) and a whole list of other exotics, etc.....Huh?? Is it strictly the all wheel drive (seems like that would increase the overall loss to the wheels) or just the tires (maybe a more logical cause).
Explain please
4.5 seconds 0-60, that's similar to Porsche 911's and Mustang Cobra's (390 hp) and a whole list of other exotics, etc.....Huh?? Is it strictly the all wheel drive (seems like that would increase the overall loss to the wheels) or just the tires (maybe a more logical cause).
Explain please
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,182
Likes: 0
From: Chicago IL
First you can't compare both cars together. One is a crap box the other is a exotic sports car. if he wants to take the best Subaru out of the pack against a vette why wont he compare it to the ZO6??? Who cares what a guy says that does not even own a car that is close to yours people like that are just jealous. Tell him to cheer up maybe one day he will drive a STI and by that time you will be driving a C6.
Good Luck
KAMIL
Good Luck
KAMIL
Pro
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 605
Likes: 0
I read an article on the auto industry in the past few months, which is where I got the 10 year number. So figure that my last experience with a bad GM product was in 1991, and I bought a Corvette in 2006, so I was at 14 years before I was willing to give them another shot, a little higher than the stated average, but in the ballpark.
Only, I think dealerships are beside the piont. They are locally owned and have nothing to do with the vehicle.
Each generation of each model deserves to be judged individually regardless of manufacturer or country of origin.
One is a crap box the other is a exotic sports car.
A car that I need to beat, not own.
Last edited by Craig Wagner; Jan 9, 2007 at 02:52 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 30,897
Likes: 45
From: Picking on the weakest kid in the yard.
First you can't compare both cars together. One is a crap box the other is a exotic sports car. if he wants to take the best Subaru out of the pack against a vette why wont he compare it to the ZO6??? Who cares what a guy says that does not even own a car that is close to yours people like that are just jealous. Tell him to cheer up maybe one day he will drive a STI and by that time you will be driving a C6.
Good Luck
KAMIL
Good Luck
KAMIL
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 30,897
Likes: 45
From: Picking on the weakest kid in the yard.
Picking nits, but my experience was as recent as 1991 (which was when I swapped the 1987 Iroc for the Supra).
I read an article on the auto industry in the past few months, which is where I got the 10 year number. So figure that my last experience with a bad GM product was in 1991, and I bought a Corvette in 2006, so I was at 14 years before I was willing to give them another shot, a little higher than the stated average, but in the ballpark.
Agian, I think this varies from car to car. My expirience with mustangs is that the '87-'93 were actually very good cars. Simple, reliable, well built. My '89 Toyota Mr2, I would rate less so. I think the big three started to turn the corner when they got multi port fuel injection. Agian, more so with some cars than other. '78 and up mustangs never had the sagging doors like the Camaros, for example.
While the dealership doesn't have anything to do with the actual build quality of the vehicle, they are part (a huge part) of the car ownership experience. If that experience is bad, it paints the whole line with the 'bad experience' brush. The fact they are locally owned doesn't get the automaker off the hook. The automakers need to start yanking the license from a few bad dealerships and see how quickly the rest of them clean up their acts.
I have never owned a new car, so I never cared about the dealer. I can see why someone would choose one over the other for this reason, but saying Japanese car dealers are better than domestic is also a braod statement. I have heard many horror stories about my local Toyota dealer, and Chevy dealer. But in general Japanese dealers may be better, I don't know. Sad, if true.
I agree. But how many people on this forum are willing to do that? If it's Japanese it's a "ricer", if it's a Ford it's junk, and so on. Nice idea, but it ain't gonna happen. For instance, see the post just before mine:
I am suprised by it in this forum. I get way more of the Japanese superiority in my dialy life.
Why do you "need" to beat it? Personally, I don't have a "need" to do anything vis-a-vis my car vs. some other car, other than respect the other person's opinion, whether it aligns with mine or not.
I read an article on the auto industry in the past few months, which is where I got the 10 year number. So figure that my last experience with a bad GM product was in 1991, and I bought a Corvette in 2006, so I was at 14 years before I was willing to give them another shot, a little higher than the stated average, but in the ballpark.
Agian, I think this varies from car to car. My expirience with mustangs is that the '87-'93 were actually very good cars. Simple, reliable, well built. My '89 Toyota Mr2, I would rate less so. I think the big three started to turn the corner when they got multi port fuel injection. Agian, more so with some cars than other. '78 and up mustangs never had the sagging doors like the Camaros, for example.
While the dealership doesn't have anything to do with the actual build quality of the vehicle, they are part (a huge part) of the car ownership experience. If that experience is bad, it paints the whole line with the 'bad experience' brush. The fact they are locally owned doesn't get the automaker off the hook. The automakers need to start yanking the license from a few bad dealerships and see how quickly the rest of them clean up their acts.
I have never owned a new car, so I never cared about the dealer. I can see why someone would choose one over the other for this reason, but saying Japanese car dealers are better than domestic is also a braod statement. I have heard many horror stories about my local Toyota dealer, and Chevy dealer. But in general Japanese dealers may be better, I don't know. Sad, if true.
I agree. But how many people on this forum are willing to do that? If it's Japanese it's a "ricer", if it's a Ford it's junk, and so on. Nice idea, but it ain't gonna happen. For instance, see the post just before mine:
I am suprised by it in this forum. I get way more of the Japanese superiority in my dialy life.
Why do you "need" to beat it? Personally, I don't have a "need" to do anything vis-a-vis my car vs. some other car, other than respect the other person's opinion, whether it aligns with mine or not.