Fed up with suspension Lowered pics
04-17-2007, 12:45 PM
#81
Racer
Member Since: Nov 2006
Location: Los Angeles CA
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When I get back from Cancun I'm most likely going to jump into the Koni FSDs and will give you a review. I was going to buy from LAPD and install it this week but I get nailed with the California sales tax so going to buy it online from somewhere else and save on tax. Downside is it won't be here till later.
btw, my current setup is bilstein sports. they are smoooth on smooth roads and firm on harsh roads but light years better than running stock shocks on a lowered car.
btw, my current setup is bilstein sports. they are smoooth on smooth roads and firm on harsh roads but light years better than running stock shocks on a lowered car.
04-17-2007, 12:57 PM
#82
Race Director
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Fair enough. And let's ensure that I'm not disrespecting individual owners (DIY'ers) as anything less than smart or whether some of us are engineers in one form or another. Heck I modded my '93, well some what I did go Corsa, and I did waste money on K&N to only later after ascertaining there was no real gain from having done this reverted it back to a stock air cleaner, and I did upgrade the A/C system from R12 to R134a, as well as ceramic brake pads. (Most of those are all minor mods though.)
We've all read or heard about the fact that the C5 had been one of the most air tunnel tested vehicles during it's development. So, my question is, are there hard facts that indicate lowering the vehicle improves it's coefficent of drag over it's stock configuration? If it does improve that factor is it a significant difference? Or are we just saying it feels better lowered by the seat of the pants and in other's views it appears better to them lowered?
I think I was also pointing out the hypocrisy of not letting a vette get dirty but it's perfectly fine to allow the bottom to smack the ground. Even to the point some folks have actually added roller wheels to the front end!
I think it could be debated as to whether or not a mod improves the vehicle. Obviously numbers and metrics would determine that. In some cases those seeking additional horse power can tweak more out of the stock engine configuration. And for those who take their vehicles to the track will certainly benefit from that.
It should be noted though, that I'm just making an observation.
I do know too that people like to make modifications as it seems to personalize the vehicle for them. (I know my cousin, completely tore apart his brand new Harley just to get rid of the black paint job in favor of a green that changes colors at each angle. Personally I thought it looked much better with it's original black paint job, but that's just me.)
We've all read or heard about the fact that the C5 had been one of the most air tunnel tested vehicles during it's development. So, my question is, are there hard facts that indicate lowering the vehicle improves it's coefficent of drag over it's stock configuration? If it does improve that factor is it a significant difference? Or are we just saying it feels better lowered by the seat of the pants and in other's views it appears better to them lowered?
I think I was also pointing out the hypocrisy of not letting a vette get dirty but it's perfectly fine to allow the bottom to smack the ground. Even to the point some folks have actually added roller wheels to the front end!
I think it could be debated as to whether or not a mod improves the vehicle. Obviously numbers and metrics would determine that. In some cases those seeking additional horse power can tweak more out of the stock engine configuration. And for those who take their vehicles to the track will certainly benefit from that.
It should be noted though, that I'm just making an observation.
I do know too that people like to make modifications as it seems to personalize the vehicle for them. (I know my cousin, completely tore apart his brand new Harley just to get rid of the black paint job in favor of a green that changes colors at each angle. Personally I thought it looked much better with it's original black paint job, but that's just me.)
04-17-2007, 11:35 PM
#84
Burning Brakes
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Jet-Jock - great points and i agree with a lot of what you said and i for one am one of those people that likes to keep the car looking nice and clean however i know im taking the risk of torturing the bottom of the car everytime i drive that is why im very selective where i drive so i know the roads which is sad to say but true... I may just raise the car i was hoping Sigma would do the FSD upgrade but i guess he likes vacation more and i cant blame him lol 
04-18-2007, 02:23 AM
#85
Le Mans Master
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Coming in really late to this thread but wanted to add that my car is lowered, I have the Bilstein Sports and Hotchkiss sways and the ride itself is not a bad ride at all. BUT...and heres why I decided to post.. The BIGGEST difference I found in ride was my tires. My pirellis and Yokohamas are SOOOOOOOO much smoother the then goodyears, it made just the right amount of difference.... my 2 cents
Last edited by GettReal; 04-18-2007 at 02:25 AM.
04-18-2007, 05:37 AM
#86
Heel & Toe
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Sorry if this was said already. I read about 2.5 pages and saw something shiny =P I don't know all the reviews on every sping/strut etc.. However, I can tell you you're not going to get an excellent smooth comfy ride when its lowered. Due to the fact that in order to lower the car you're going to have to shorten the travel of the shock. When this is done it needs to be stiffened in order to keep from bottoming out.
Only way I've ever known to get it lower without actually shortening your suspension travel is spindle/ball join drops. I've only ever seen those on trucks.
However, i'm sure there is a good spring/strut combo that will get you close to where you want to be. Good luck.
Only way I've ever known to get it lower without actually shortening your suspension travel is spindle/ball join drops. I've only ever seen those on trucks.
However, i'm sure there is a good spring/strut combo that will get you close to where you want to be. Good luck.
04-18-2007, 05:45 AM
#87
Melting Slicks
Originally Posted by BlackRabbit
I can tell you you're not going to get an excellent smooth comfy ride when its lowered. Due to the fact that in order to lower the car you're going to have to shorten the travel of the shock. When this is done it needs to be stiffened in order to keep from bottoming out.
It won't be long now. I dropped the car off last evening for new tires, coilovers, alignment and corner balancing. I'll wring the car out this weekend and report back.
04-28-2007, 01:11 PM
#88
Melting Slicks
I've had the car back a week now, so here's my review on the Pfadt coilovers. I should add that I also had new tires, 4 wheel alignment and corner weighting performed. The car is not slammed, but the ride height was dropped (see below), so I think this is a pretty fair test.
No track time yet, but I have run the car over known problem stretches, as well as some heavy-duty California canyon twisties. One of the benchmarks I use is a corner near my house. It is a paved downhill, signal controlled 90º right hand turn. After the turn, it immediately transitions to an uphill. The corner is banked, and has a double dip at the apex. If you time the light, you can take the corner at 40 mph. With the stock setup (FE1 and runflats) the rear tire would get airborne and skip over the two dips. With the Michelin PS2s, Bilstein Sports in the rear, tunnel plate, Z06 sways, and slight lowering (3 turns of factory bolts all around), the same corner scenario resulted in the tires staying planted...but a very jarring ride. This was my configuration prior to the Pfadts. With the coilovers, the suspension does the work, and I just drive through the corner -- a big improvement.
My second test road is a section of divided highway with several 25-30º sweepers...with expansion joints in the middle of each. I've driven here a lot and also observed how other cars react. It's a popular spot with the sport bikers, who often try to "play" with vettes and Vipers here. In the past, I've never felt 100% confident in the curves, because the suspension would get momentarily unloaded by the expansion joints and result in side skitter (and no, I'm not confusing this with bump-steer). The bikes handle it well of course, but other (very capable) cars that I've observed fare similar or worse than my experience. Since the Pfadts and BFG KDWs, I can take this road as fast as my nerve and radar detector will allow -- another big improvement.
The final (for now) test was on the canyon twisties. I'm familiar enough with these roads that I know where I can push it and where I have to back off. The backing off usually occurs because I feel the car pushing. When I tried these stretches initially, I was somewhat disappointed. Although the approach and trail braking felt more "controlled" I couldn't take the corner any faster before I felt the beginnings of understeer. It was then I remembered that the Pfadts are 12-way adjustable. Although I left the shop with them set at 9 in the rear and 7 up front, I had reset the fronts up to 10 before hitting the canyons. A roadside adjustment back to 7 in front and then re-running the same stretch of road resulted in a very different experience. The car was faster through the turns, and more importantly, smooth and confidence inspiring leading into the turns.
Overall, I'm thrilled with this setup. I'm running 1lb higher air pressure up front, and am going to leave the coilovers set at 9/7 for the time being. Make no mistake, these are probably not for everyone. But if you think these would be bone jarring for everyday driving you would be wrong. Even though the car is much lower now, the coilovers allow independent length adjustment, so you always have full suspension travel no matter what your ride height. Also (though I haven't tried), I'm sure the ride could be made fairly compliant by going to something like a 3R/2F setting. For someone with a dd considering this, I would suggest getting a test ride to see if it suits you...but I highly recommend them.
No track time yet, but I have run the car over known problem stretches, as well as some heavy-duty California canyon twisties. One of the benchmarks I use is a corner near my house. It is a paved downhill, signal controlled 90º right hand turn. After the turn, it immediately transitions to an uphill. The corner is banked, and has a double dip at the apex. If you time the light, you can take the corner at 40 mph. With the stock setup (FE1 and runflats) the rear tire would get airborne and skip over the two dips. With the Michelin PS2s, Bilstein Sports in the rear, tunnel plate, Z06 sways, and slight lowering (3 turns of factory bolts all around), the same corner scenario resulted in the tires staying planted...but a very jarring ride. This was my configuration prior to the Pfadts. With the coilovers, the suspension does the work, and I just drive through the corner -- a big improvement.
My second test road is a section of divided highway with several 25-30º sweepers...with expansion joints in the middle of each. I've driven here a lot and also observed how other cars react. It's a popular spot with the sport bikers, who often try to "play" with vettes and Vipers here. In the past, I've never felt 100% confident in the curves, because the suspension would get momentarily unloaded by the expansion joints and result in side skitter (and no, I'm not confusing this with bump-steer). The bikes handle it well of course, but other (very capable) cars that I've observed fare similar or worse than my experience. Since the Pfadts and BFG KDWs, I can take this road as fast as my nerve and radar detector will allow
-- another big improvement.The final (for now) test was on the canyon twisties. I'm familiar enough with these roads that I know where I can push it and where I have to back off. The backing off usually occurs because I feel the car pushing. When I tried these stretches initially, I was somewhat disappointed. Although the approach and trail braking felt more "controlled" I couldn't take the corner any faster before I felt the beginnings of understeer. It was then I remembered that the Pfadts are 12-way adjustable. Although I left the shop with them set at 9 in the rear and 7 up front, I had reset the fronts up to 10 before hitting the canyons. A roadside adjustment back to 7 in front and then re-running the same stretch of road resulted in a very different experience. The car was faster through the turns, and more importantly, smooth and confidence inspiring leading into the turns.
Overall, I'm thrilled with this setup. I'm running 1lb higher air pressure up front, and am going to leave the coilovers set at 9/7 for the time being. Make no mistake, these are probably not for everyone. But if you think these would be bone jarring for everyday driving you would be wrong. Even though the car is much lower now, the coilovers allow independent length adjustment, so you always have full suspension travel no matter what your ride height. Also (though I haven't tried), I'm sure the ride could be made fairly compliant by going to something like a 3R/2F setting. For someone with a dd considering this, I would suggest getting a test ride to see if it suits you...but I highly recommend them.
Last edited by Mr. Lucky; 04-28-2007 at 01:14 PM.
04-28-2007, 01:46 PM
#89
Racer
I have a slightly different problem, yet somewhat similar to. I can't lower my C5 due to all the "Speed Bumps" and "Security Barriers" used by the military here in Germany. So, I installed the "Bilstein Sports" - NOT HD on my Vette for handling and control on the Autobahns over here. This seems to be a good combination for me. . . I can navigate all the speed bumps/barriers when I drive on the military installations and have great handling and control when I'm driving on the Autobahns.
Ciao,
Ciao,
04-28-2007, 01:53 PM
#90
Team Owner
This is a total troll post. How would you know C3 owner?
04-28-2007, 02:24 PM
#91
Instructor
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There is some humor in all this. C4/C3 folks who test drive a C5 almost always say, oh the C5 rides like a Lincoln it's too soft and spongy doesn't feel like a sports car, seats are soft and doesn't hold you like a C4 seat does, it doesn't jar your teeth like their older vette does.
And the C5 people say oh no it's rides just fine, is stiff and responsive etc., etc., etc.
Personally, I find my '01 with Z51 just right. Of course mine is stock and original except for the tires (Michelins).
I cannot seem to grasp the reasoning behind lowering the Vette even more. In this part of the country road kill would take out a section of the car if it is lowered much more. They seem to accept that its ok to scrap the bottom of the vehicle on every bump, but don't let it get rained on or get dirty. Funny too, how millions of dollars of resources and engineering went into designing and making the Corvette do just what it is desgined for, yet all the DIY'ers seem to know better.
I suppose if your only racing the vehicle on a track like the NASCAR vehicle have then yes optimize it for use on the track, but I gather the majority are not doing this. Kind of reminds me of all the low-rider cars.
And the C5 people say oh no it's rides just fine, is stiff and responsive etc., etc., etc.
Personally, I find my '01 with Z51 just right. Of course mine is stock and original except for the tires (Michelins).
I cannot seem to grasp the reasoning behind lowering the Vette even more. In this part of the country road kill would take out a section of the car if it is lowered much more. They seem to accept that its ok to scrap the bottom of the vehicle on every bump, but don't let it get rained on or get dirty. Funny too, how millions of dollars of resources and engineering went into designing and making the Corvette do just what it is desgined for, yet all the DIY'ers seem to know better.
I suppose if your only racing the vehicle on a track like the NASCAR vehicle have then yes optimize it for use on the track, but I gather the majority are not doing this. Kind of reminds me of all the low-rider cars.
