Getting Fed Up!!! Please Help!!!!
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From: Phoenix
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 82
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From: Phoenix
Faulty O2 sensors?
Still got the old ones? I'm sure they all are not bad.
So, put them back in. Now, one at a time, replace an old one with each one of the new ones checking the light after each replacement. If all four new ones fail assume the old original is OK, put it back in and move on to the next original sensor again trying each new one in its place, etc.
Here's my story. I had this problem on a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Took it in for a tuneup: plugs, wires 02 sensors, etc. Got the car out. Soon after "Check Engine" lit up.
Oh, I forget to mention, the new o2 sensors were from Jeep.
Long story short. The federal warranty on emission parts had not expired (70,000 miles or seven years (i think)). I ended up taking it to Jeep 10 times. Each time a new part in the emission system had been replace but each time the car failed smog and turned on the CE light. Jeep changed (under warranty) EVERY EMISSION PART ON THE CAR (ie. new cats, new PCM, new hoses, new EVERYTHING! Over $5000 in emission parts were replaced. After 10 failures and calls by the dealership to Chrysler engineers who were no help I said, "Why don't you change out those "new" o2 sensors that were put in during the original tuneup with another set. Jeep hesitantly said OK. They did it. The car passed smog! Never had CE light again.
So, maybe one or more of those brand new sensors is bad.
I hope its something else but, you've got enough old and new ones to do some experimenting. Just keep good notes as you experiment.
Good luck!
..rickko..
Still got the old ones? I'm sure they all are not bad.
So, put them back in. Now, one at a time, replace an old one with each one of the new ones checking the light after each replacement. If all four new ones fail assume the old original is OK, put it back in and move on to the next original sensor again trying each new one in its place, etc.
Here's my story. I had this problem on a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Took it in for a tuneup: plugs, wires 02 sensors, etc. Got the car out. Soon after "Check Engine" lit up.
Oh, I forget to mention, the new o2 sensors were from Jeep.
Long story short. The federal warranty on emission parts had not expired (70,000 miles or seven years (i think)). I ended up taking it to Jeep 10 times. Each time a new part in the emission system had been replace but each time the car failed smog and turned on the CE light. Jeep changed (under warranty) EVERY EMISSION PART ON THE CAR (ie. new cats, new PCM, new hoses, new EVERYTHING! Over $5000 in emission parts were replaced. After 10 failures and calls by the dealership to Chrysler engineers who were no help I said, "Why don't you change out those "new" o2 sensors that were put in during the original tuneup with another set. Jeep hesitantly said OK. They did it. The car passed smog! Never had CE light again.
So, maybe one or more of those brand new sensors is bad.
I hope its something else but, you've got enough old and new ones to do some experimenting. Just keep good notes as you experiment.
Good luck!
..rickko..
Racer
Joined: Apr 2001
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Seriously, I'm with you. I'd do more damage than good if I tried to make sense of that!
Good luck!
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: Santa Maria Ca.
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Middletown CT
Pin C on the sensors are the ground wires for the individual sensors.
They all go to splice pack 122. The splice pack is basically a junction box for the ground wires. The ground wire then exits the splice pack and connects to the frame at ground G105. For all four sensors not to be working, I would say G105 is not making a good connection to the frame. I would clean and refasten the ground lug first. Less likely would be corrosion in the splice pack but IMO it would have to be pretty severe for all four ground connections in the splice pack to fail at the same time. It should be checked for corrosion, even if the ground is the culprit to avoid future problems.
See post #11 in this thread for a drawing showing the location of G105.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-t...ious-help.html
Last edited by Greg_E; Jun 16, 2010 at 12:43 PM. Reason: Corrected typo G105 not G104
Le Mans Master
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The real way is to get it on a graphing scanner to see what the O2's are putting out-if they all go to 0, there has to be a bad COMMON point. All 4 dying at the same time would be a rare occurance unless something is polluting the exhaust stream (like a coolant leak) taking all 4 O2's out at the same time.
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From: Phoenix
So here is the update. Sorry for the delay work has been crazy. It has turned into a hit or miss type of situation. Every day on my drive to work, no codes at all. Sometimes on my way home, or if I make a trip to the store or something, then I occasionally run into a code or four. And its not always codes for all four sensors, sometimes it's just one, or just two, or three, and not always the same ones. Its very confusing. I plan on getting under the car either this evening or tomorrow morning, so we'll see if the ground is loose or something. Thanks again for all of the advice.
Race Director
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St. Jude Donor '03 thru '26
Oldtimer
So here is the update. Sorry for the delay work has been crazy. It has turned into a hit or miss type of situation. Every day on my drive to work, no codes at all. Sometimes on my way home, or if I make a trip to the store or something, then I occasionally run into a code or four. And its not always codes for all four sensors, sometimes it's just one, or just two, or three, and not always the same ones. Its very confusing. I plan on getting under the car either this evening or tomorrow morning, so we'll see if the ground is loose or something. Thanks again for all of the advice.
The PCM keeps telling you there's a problem with the emissions system, and you only got the Oxygen sensors and the type of gasoline when you boil it down to basics, it's just those two. Something keeps throwing those same codes and that source of the problem is constant. So what in the emission system is giving you this problem? This is just my $0.02, but I think that it lies within the fuel or the fuel monitoring system.
Last edited by killain; Jun 19, 2010 at 07:03 PM.
Melting Slicks
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I have done nothing to the car in roughly 2 months, and that was only seafoaming the fuel tank to fix the gummy fuel senosr, which is what I thought might have caused the old sensors to finally go.
And as far as crossing the wires, I did one at a time, so there was no way to cross them because I finished each one before moving on....
I am so perplexed by this.
And as far as crossing the wires, I did one at a time, so there was no way to cross them because I finished each one before moving on....
I am so perplexed by this.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2005
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From: "Man been singin' the Blues, since he began to till the ground"...Vancouver, USA WA.
You've really given this problem a lot of work, and I'm not trying to sound foolish but, Have you checked the grounds and the fuel pressure, and (and I realize this sound stupid) have you tried flushing the tank and switching to a different gasoline ? I've had five Corvettes, and two of them had corrosion at the grounds. On the left front frame is a ground lug bolt with a gang connector, it would only take fifteen minutes to remove the lug bolt and make sure it's clean, and then simply remove the gang connection and clean it out with electrical cleaner (Don't get any of it on your paint) but once it's clean apply a film of diaelectric grease and see it the codes go away ?
The PCM keeps telling you there's a problem with the emissions system, and you only got the Oxygen sensors and the type of gasoline when you boil it down to basics, it's just those two. Something keeps throwing those same codes and that source of the problem is constant. So what in the emission system is giving you this problem? This is just my $0.02, but I think that it lies within the fuel or the fuel monitoring system.
The PCM keeps telling you there's a problem with the emissions system, and you only got the Oxygen sensors and the type of gasoline when you boil it down to basics, it's just those two. Something keeps throwing those same codes and that source of the problem is constant. So what in the emission system is giving you this problem? This is just my $0.02, but I think that it lies within the fuel or the fuel monitoring system.
Check your gas cap also, usually the first thing to set off your "check engine lite". May be time for a new one. BTDT, JOE
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Middletown CT
All four of the codes you posted are O2 sensor heater performance codes.
As mentioned in an earlier post, if you wanted to methodically troubleshoot the problem you would hook up your Tech 2 (which you don't have), and monitor the voltage swing of the sensors.
If you are comfortable using a 12 volt test light, and understand the schematics that have been posted, you can connect one side of the light to a known good ground, probe the 12volt feed to the sensor, with the key on. If the light is on, you have power at the sensor.
Now do the same test but but move the test light ground wire to the pin in the harness that goes to the splice pack 122 and G105 ground. If the test light is off or glows dimly the ground is bad.
Or you can just go ahead and check/clean SP122 and G105 and in all likelyhood, fix the problem.
As mentioned in an earlier post, if you wanted to methodically troubleshoot the problem you would hook up your Tech 2 (which you don't have), and monitor the voltage swing of the sensors.
If you are comfortable using a 12 volt test light, and understand the schematics that have been posted, you can connect one side of the light to a known good ground, probe the 12volt feed to the sensor, with the key on. If the light is on, you have power at the sensor.
Now do the same test but but move the test light ground wire to the pin in the harness that goes to the splice pack 122 and G105 ground. If the test light is off or glows dimly the ground is bad.
Or you can just go ahead and check/clean SP122 and G105 and in all likelyhood, fix the problem.
Last edited by Greg_E; Jun 21, 2010 at 05:31 AM.
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From: Phoenix
Todays update: I checked the splice pack and the ground, everything was super clean (which was a total surprise) but I took it all apart and cleaned it anyway. Drove around the block with no codes, but we'll see how tomorrow goes. Thank you all again for the information and wish me luck. I'll let you know how things go tomorrow.
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From: Phoenix
So apparently I'm back to square one. I was driving home from work and of course got the same 4 codes. I don't know what else to do. I need to have this thing fixed this week as I need to smog it so I can do the registration which is due saturday...so I don't know. I'm to the point where I might need to take it in to a shop, but I hate to do that since I know this is something I can fix...assuming I figure out the problem. I guess we'll see...