Hi all. Gotta love YouTube. Now we can all sit back and watch in horror as guys pour on all that power at freeway speeds (or slower) and start fish-tailing uncontrollably until they hit something. I have owned my C5 for 2 years now. No performance mods (unless you wanna call a Magnaflow cat back a performance mod...I won't). SO even with only stock horsepower on tap, I have never felt comfortable enough to turn off the active handling/traction control. I will occasionally put it in Competitive Driving (Ok, I confess I did a nice burnout once on a back-country road in the middle of nowhere) but even then my brain gets the better of me and I turn it back to regular driving mode. It is so easy to break the rear end loose in the lower gears... I have a ton of respect for this car.

One of my goals is to get out to some track days in the next year or so to start to get an understanding of the limits of the car's grip and handling - but even track days are NOT a good place to learn how to NOT wipe out, as most of them I've seen online will give you the boot if you can't keep it under control.

So, humor me, what do you think causes these wipeouts we keep seeing everywhere? At one point does the active handling give up (or is everyone just disabling it?). I remember playing around in my Ford Escort as a teenager on the ice in winter, and one time I got stuck in a back-and-forth see-saw motion that ended up with me in a ditch...but that was on ice with nearly bald tires. I watch these videos of guys swinging the rear end left to right and back again and I swear it looks just like they are on ice. Are they not letting up on the gas? Are they lacking the experience to counter steer without over steering to bring it back in line? I often wonder if you put a professional race car drive in the same exact situation, would they be able to correct the error and save face (and damage) - thus attributing these wrecks to a combination of inexperience and overconfidence?

Just food for thought as I sit here at my office wishing I was out enjoying a ride on this beautiful day!

 

Unless I (we) are there and talk to the driver it is hard to say. I think part of it has to do with the driver not understanding the car and it power. I also believe that a lot has to do with simply turning off the TC, but not holding the button down long enough to get the Competition mode engaged. Finally, it is that they guys or gals doing this just simply don't know when to get off the go peddle.

 

I have a 2001 stock C5 with manual. I can overpower the rear tires (new run flats) regardless of settings. I like to let the rear end slide to one side and then power shift to let it go the other way, usually thru 3rd gear. However, I know what I am doing and know how to stay on the ragged edge but still be in full control. Mind you, I do this without anyone near me since things can break. Too many people, not just Corvette owners, want to show off and they have no idea what they are doing.

Learning how to do this in a mid engine car is even trickier. Since if you are heavy into the loud petal in a curve and start to drift, you CANNOT LET OFF, you have to apply power to stay in control. It took some time in my Pantera to master that without having to wear Depends.

 

People need better tires for a start...

With 360rwhp, I couldn't break it loose at all in 2nd gear and higher with the Nitto drag radials. I could do it easily with the stock 10yr old Supercars. When the tires spun, that's all they did. The car state straight and the tires spun and spun until I got off the gas. The back end NEVER came out unless I turned the wheel or was on a very curved road surface. Once it did, I lifted immediately and counter steered to snap it back in line when TC was off. Simple.

The problem is people showing off and cranking the wheel to get it sideways or doing it while turning an then not having the experience or knowledge to save it. It happens FAST. Usually, I see most of the wipeouts happen when people slam it into 2nd while hard on the throttle. That will get you in a hurry if you're turning or don't know how to keep it straight.

 

Never have had a problem with my C5's, but in one of my C4's, I found out that once it starts coming around, it happens QUICK!!!! Also, once it gets around so far (how far is so far?) there is just no getting it back. At that point, you are just along for the ride.

One time years ago, I was coming down from Estes Park at night and enjoying the curves in the Big Thompson Canyon. Yes, I was going faster than I should have been doing, but everything was completely under control and operating normally. That is until a deer walked out into the road in front of me. I was in the middle of a long sweeper and just letting up on the gas took enough weight off of the rear wheels that they immediately lost traction, the car swapped ends instantly, and I left the road backwards at a high rate of speed!! I didn't even get a chance to try to avoid the deer!! Thankfully, I went to the inside or canyon side of the road. If the curve had been to the outside, or river side, it would have been about a hundred foot drop to the river!! There is no more helpless feeling than knowing you just have to wait until it stops, and not know WHEN it will stop!!!

Ended up on top of a large strip of big erosion control boulders. Tore my car up pretty good, but didn't total it, thank goodness. Got it fixed and all was fine, including my realization that I am not a professional driver!!!

Supposedly, from what I have been told, Corvettes have a fairly shallow break point in that regard and are not very forgiving once you are in trouble. Don't really know if that is true or not, but it was my experience!!

Just food for thought........

DSTURBD

 

Addition to previous post, in case some are wondering....

I had a house on ten acres on top of Storm Mountain up there, and had driven that road millions of times and knew every inch of it. Had driven it many, many times in a very spirited manner without a hint of a problem. I say this to illustrate just how quickly you can get in trouble no matter what the circumstances are!!

Be safe!
DSTURBD

 

 

I would like to be the inside of her left arm as she eats the popcorn...

 

Inexperience or poor judgment, or both at the same time.

 

If you don't know the car or how to drive it you get in trouble.

The take away should be "get to know the car and learn to drive it" not "never do so-and-so with a car".

And never ever be afraid to say "No thanks, I do not think I will do a burnout today"

It is simply a mechanical device for goodness sakes. Go learn how to use it. If you can't teach yourself, pay someone to teach you.

Go find an empty parking lot. Experiment. Learn what it feels like to break loose, slide, panic brake, swerve etc etc.

Don't be the guy or gal that "learns" on the fly. That is never fun or cost effective.

Oh, and never be afraid to say 'No thanks, I don't feel like doing a burnout today.'

 

Its all on the driver.

 

Something I noticed is that after I installed Pfadt C/O (and removed the transverse leaf springs) the car has less of a tendency to swing the azz-end to the right when I break them loose.

I can't prove it but, it sure feels that way to me. Am I smoking crack?

 

Got to know the limits of the car and know when to let up.

 

It's pretty simple really. A spinning tire has practically zero traction. I can remember being at the drag strip long ago when things weren't so strictly enforced. A guy could stand next to the car with a hand on the quarter panel and move it side to side when it was spun up in the burnout box.

Any rear drive car with lots of horsepower to weight can get in trouble. Mustangs tend to swap ends pretty well too. Years ago my buddy found out the hard way with his Cobra. Got sideways, he lifted and whaM! straight into a wall before he could say Oh ****. Nice job for me. Ended up 10 grand damage with both bags popped.

 

Ditto with my buddy's Porsche 930 Turbo.......back out of the throttle during an oversteer situation is death.

 

As a kid we had a 13 acre field behind our house, my father bought me my first car when i was 9 in 1955, a 1941 ford two door sedan.
By the time i got my junior license at 16 had wrecked about
5 cars, and at 18 was driving 40 foot semi's. I know not
everyone had this opportunity, but my point is there
are alot of people out there who can't handle an impala
much less a corvette.

 

^^ This.

The first week after I bought my Vette I was heading home, just getting on the freeway, and for some reason the slow lane was backed up at least 20 cars deep, with not a single car in any of the other lanes for at least a quarter mile. I dropped down into 5th gear and punched it to get around them; the rear tires broke loose unexpectedly (I was still getting used to the car) and if not for the many, many years of driving high performance cars on and off the track, I could easily have wiped out half of the cars sitting in the slow lane. I still don't know how I managed to smoke the tires in 5th, but it sure was one hell of a fun ride. My daughter was in the passenger seat giggling her head off becuase she saw the tire smoke in the mirror on her side, and after watching all of the Fast & Furious movies she knew exactly what was going on.

 

Throttle control (or lack thereof). Best way I've ever heard it explained was like this:

If you walk up to someone, and give them a sudden, hard push on their shoulder, you'll most likely knock them off balance, and they may potentially fall over. Tires behave the same; "drop the hammer" on the throttle, and the tire has no time to build up resistance to the surface, and just gives in...resulting in the wipe out.

Conversely, walk up to someone, place your hand on their shoulder, and then continually apply more & more force pushing on them, and they'll counter the force by pushing back on you to keep from falling. Tires behave similarly; feeding in the throttle quickly and efficiently instead of going "pedal to the metal" results in a similar reaction, giving the tires a chance to continue making contact to the road as the force (torque) continues to build up as the rev's build.

Also the above from dadaroo / zerotosixsty: lift-off oversteer will wipe you out before you know it when all the weight shifts over the front wheels. Either commit and know the entry / exit speed of the corner before you decide to show off, and remember to ease off the gas, not completely lift.

Gotta remember too, tires can either accelerate, turn, or slow down - not any combination of these at the same time. It's once you combine them that you either get drifting, trail braking, or a wipe-out scenario. Remember to take in to account your inflation pressures (hot vs. cold), and the ambient temperature, as that'll determine how well your tread compound sticks in any scenario.

Drife Safe
Chris

 

 

as others have said, driver skill

other is the tires they are on and day to day changes in the weather. a guy might do something on a 90deg, have traction and continue through

try it on a 50deg day and the tires break loose.

so many variables go into this

besides you should never be pushing more than 75% on the street anyway. you absolutely have to leave room for error cornering, could be gravel, oil, who knows. if you drive at the limit of traction on the street often you will wreck cars.