VTEC vs LSx!
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 328
Likes: 0
From: Sacramento CA
VTEC vs LSx!
I mentioned my definition of VTEC to a Honda enthusiast friend of mine. The following is the argument that has ensued so far:
Me: VTEC = VirtuallyTorquelessEconomyCar
Him: VTEC = spend half the money of a **** *** domestic and run 9 second quarter miles without blowing up...
Me: VTEC is just a crutch that Honda uses to make their tiny engines more drivable. Their small displacement engines need to spin HIGH RPMs in order to make power, and be cammed for optimum air/fuel and exhaust flow at high RPM. This causes their engines to have almost ZERO low RPM torque.
On the other hand, my Corvette's LS1 has very good low RPM torque due to larger displacement and can make horsepower at both high AND low RPMs.
It's just a simple fact that my LS1 makes more HORSEPOWER & TORQUE than any PRODUCTION Honda or Acura engine, including the NSX.
And speaking of blowing up...
Him: Don't get me wrong the ls series v8s are gods gift to domestics they are truly potent motors, and boosted they are serious competitors in the car world, I'm just saying for the price of a corvette you could buy and build a 9 second Honda with proper boost and tuning and legitimate parts. And still have money left over for a steak dinner. There's quite a few daily driven 9-10 second Hondas in Sacramento, an they probably still get better gas mileage then a corvette.
What I'm about to say: I picked up my 1998 C5 Corvette for $6,300 with 93k miles, NEW B&B Exhaust, Cross Drilled and Slotted Rotors, C6 Z06 Wheels, SS Braided Brake Lines and High Quality Leather Aftermarket Seats. The car also has virtually every factory option for the 1998 model year. Since purchasing the car I have added a Vararam-B2 Cold Air Intake, 12'' Polk Audio Subwoofer and a 800 Watt CRUNCH Amp. That makes the Grand Total come to $6,800 for my 1998 C5. The Average Book Value on it now with 96k miles is $16,000 in our area. I would put my C5 against any Honda of the same price I have spent on my Corvette and EAT IT FOR DINNER! ESPECIALLY AROUND A ROAD TRACK! By the way, I get 35 MPG cruising at 70 MPH on the freeway!
Does anyone have any good points they would like to add to this argument?
EDIT: WHEN I SAID "It's just a simple fact that my LS1 makes more HORSEPOWER & TORQUE than any Honda or Acura engine, including the NSX." I WAS REFERRING TO PRODUCTION HONDA'S AND ACURA'S!
Me: VTEC = VirtuallyTorquelessEconomyCar
Him: VTEC = spend half the money of a **** *** domestic and run 9 second quarter miles without blowing up...
Me: VTEC is just a crutch that Honda uses to make their tiny engines more drivable. Their small displacement engines need to spin HIGH RPMs in order to make power, and be cammed for optimum air/fuel and exhaust flow at high RPM. This causes their engines to have almost ZERO low RPM torque.
On the other hand, my Corvette's LS1 has very good low RPM torque due to larger displacement and can make horsepower at both high AND low RPMs.
It's just a simple fact that my LS1 makes more HORSEPOWER & TORQUE than any PRODUCTION Honda or Acura engine, including the NSX.
And speaking of blowing up...
Him: Don't get me wrong the ls series v8s are gods gift to domestics they are truly potent motors, and boosted they are serious competitors in the car world, I'm just saying for the price of a corvette you could buy and build a 9 second Honda with proper boost and tuning and legitimate parts. And still have money left over for a steak dinner. There's quite a few daily driven 9-10 second Hondas in Sacramento, an they probably still get better gas mileage then a corvette.
What I'm about to say: I picked up my 1998 C5 Corvette for $6,300 with 93k miles, NEW B&B Exhaust, Cross Drilled and Slotted Rotors, C6 Z06 Wheels, SS Braided Brake Lines and High Quality Leather Aftermarket Seats. The car also has virtually every factory option for the 1998 model year. Since purchasing the car I have added a Vararam-B2 Cold Air Intake, 12'' Polk Audio Subwoofer and a 800 Watt CRUNCH Amp. That makes the Grand Total come to $6,800 for my 1998 C5. The Average Book Value on it now with 96k miles is $16,000 in our area. I would put my C5 against any Honda of the same price I have spent on my Corvette and EAT IT FOR DINNER! ESPECIALLY AROUND A ROAD TRACK! By the way, I get 35 MPG cruising at 70 MPH on the freeway!
Does anyone have any good points they would like to add to this argument?
EDIT: WHEN I SAID "It's just a simple fact that my LS1 makes more HORSEPOWER & TORQUE than any Honda or Acura engine, including the NSX." I WAS REFERRING TO PRODUCTION HONDA'S AND ACURA'S!
Last edited by 97VetteDan; Apr 8, 2013 at 12:59 AM.
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,341
Likes: 8
From: Hopatcong New Jersey
Who cares? You can pick up any old civic hatch back or CRX for a couple grand and dump 5-6K into it and make it run 10 seconds.....a couple times...before it breaks. Even if there is more money in it to make it more reliable, a 10 second Honda will never be a daily driver, it will be a track car. A 10 second Corvette can be both. And at the end of the day, no matter how fast the Honda is, it's still a Honda.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 16,028
Likes: 170
From: oregon
make fun all you want but honda cylinder heads FLOW. with some boost behind them you can have a quick straight line car
in fact, this is my old integra the new owner is running on a local track. that's all done on a stock type r engine with a VERY good turbo
in fact, this is my old integra the new owner is running on a local track. that's all done on a stock type r engine with a VERY good turbo
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,937
Likes: 348
From: My interests are mobile
I can't believe the ignorance of people. You really started a thread like this...lol.
The fact is, a hack can build anything...a camaro, corvette, mustang, chevelle or honda. There are half assed builders attempting to make all kinds of cars fast. The simple fact is though, camaro's, corvettes or various mustangs just hand you more out of the box...in terms of straight line performance. In turn, their owners think they've achieved some monument of success when they run 11's in their Camaro.
I built Honda's for over 10 years as my primary business. I've built components and engines for Honda's that made over 900whp and 650wtq. I HAVE built and owned 10 sec capable Hondas and driven them daily...and were I next to you at a street light you'd have never had a clue.
Fact is, a real builder knows anything fast...is respectable...doesn't matter what it is. If you truly respect ability, then seeing a guy go 9 seconds on a 2 liter, while you struggle to achieve it with rwd and a 5-7liter...funny how you look down upon that person...lol.
Fact of the matter is, the Corvette is an incredible machine for the money. I know many Honda guys driving them. Corvettes are very respected in the import world, as are many other cars. The LSx platform is very respected in that world as well.
The fact is though, what do YOU know about the Honda platform to judge it. Honda heads, as stated, flow HUGE amounts of air. Honda injects race technology more quickly into their street platforms than does GM. Vtec technology was developed in F1 and was in a production car in THREE years! Variable timing and lift technology is just NOW being fully developed by the big three...20+ years after Honda started using it.
Regardless...debating with folks like you is fairly pointless. You have an ignorance that just doesn't go away, and it's what compromises your ability as an enthusiast.
In departing, I'll leave a pic of myself with a good friend of mine who works out your way in CA. We are standing in front of his 1000hp Civic, at SEMA, that he built in less than 2 months from the time Honda provided him the vehicle. That is paired with the vehicle that he exhibited the year before, the CRZ which made 500+hp on a 1.5 liter and got 50+mpg. We have long known each other, and exhibited together at La Auto Show, as well as others. Bisi forgot more than most builders know, twice his age.
If that's too young for you...or too ricer...know that Smokey Yunik, one of the most respected builders of V8's in history, was an advocate of turbocharged 4 cylinders, and even had a 50mpg turbo'd Fiero back in the 80's. Those who were true builders, could see beyond the V8 as the holy grail...it's about power...efficiency...and execution...period.
The fact is, a hack can build anything...a camaro, corvette, mustang, chevelle or honda. There are half assed builders attempting to make all kinds of cars fast. The simple fact is though, camaro's, corvettes or various mustangs just hand you more out of the box...in terms of straight line performance. In turn, their owners think they've achieved some monument of success when they run 11's in their Camaro.
I built Honda's for over 10 years as my primary business. I've built components and engines for Honda's that made over 900whp and 650wtq. I HAVE built and owned 10 sec capable Hondas and driven them daily...and were I next to you at a street light you'd have never had a clue.
Fact is, a real builder knows anything fast...is respectable...doesn't matter what it is. If you truly respect ability, then seeing a guy go 9 seconds on a 2 liter, while you struggle to achieve it with rwd and a 5-7liter...funny how you look down upon that person...lol.
Fact of the matter is, the Corvette is an incredible machine for the money. I know many Honda guys driving them. Corvettes are very respected in the import world, as are many other cars. The LSx platform is very respected in that world as well.
The fact is though, what do YOU know about the Honda platform to judge it. Honda heads, as stated, flow HUGE amounts of air. Honda injects race technology more quickly into their street platforms than does GM. Vtec technology was developed in F1 and was in a production car in THREE years! Variable timing and lift technology is just NOW being fully developed by the big three...20+ years after Honda started using it.
Regardless...debating with folks like you is fairly pointless. You have an ignorance that just doesn't go away, and it's what compromises your ability as an enthusiast.
In departing, I'll leave a pic of myself with a good friend of mine who works out your way in CA. We are standing in front of his 1000hp Civic, at SEMA, that he built in less than 2 months from the time Honda provided him the vehicle. That is paired with the vehicle that he exhibited the year before, the CRZ which made 500+hp on a 1.5 liter and got 50+mpg. We have long known each other, and exhibited together at La Auto Show, as well as others. Bisi forgot more than most builders know, twice his age.
If that's too young for you...or too ricer...know that Smokey Yunik, one of the most respected builders of V8's in history, was an advocate of turbocharged 4 cylinders, and even had a 50mpg turbo'd Fiero back in the 80's. Those who were true builders, could see beyond the V8 as the holy grail...it's about power...efficiency...and execution...period.
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 138
Likes: 1
I'm not in a Corvette so I can't compared just yet (Friday I'm planning on picking up a clean stock 99 
) but I built this 00 Civic Si to 320 whp on 11 psi, and it was a BLAST to drive. I will never bash Hondas as mine showed me nothing but amazing things when you build / treat it right. I loved it and some days I wish I still had my 30 mpg go cart.
) but I built this 00 Civic Si to 320 whp on 11 psi, and it was a BLAST to drive. I will never bash Hondas as mine showed me nothing but amazing things when you build / treat it right. I loved it and some days I wish I still had my 30 mpg go cart.
Intermediate
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
From: LEROY NEW YORK
At the end of the day vtecs and Hondas, are what they are... ricers. When i think of a powerful car, a dream car, I think of a corvette not a Honda civic that some kid thinks is a race car because he put a loud muffler on it
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,754
Likes: 380
From: South Florida FL
I think both ofmyou are lil lost. Hondas makes well engineered motors for what they are, look up,the flow numbers on K20 head. If It was apples to apples. Like if they made a 5.7 also, it'll do a lot of damage. But turbo is the replacement for the small cubes.
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,855
Likes: 78
From: Sammamish WA
WA Events Coordinator
Show me a Honda product (not counting the early 80's F1 Qual engines) that can do 2000hp like this LS:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-f...ld-thread.html
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-f...ld-thread.html
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,301
Likes: 6
From: LAND OF OZ Kansas
I have a friend that has a 92-93 Civic hatchback, can't remember the year exactly, but you couldn't keep up with him if you wanted to. Yes, I'm even saying you 500-700HP vettes. It's an ugly car though.
Remember this, "money makes anything fast."
Remember this, "money makes anything fast."
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 210
Likes: 0
From: Ravenswood West Virginia
Your 98 bolt on vette will NOT eat any Honda lmfao... Ive had several Honda hatches, one was a $4500 boosted gsr that would walk the dog on your vette all day long. Faster passes on a 22" slick than my cammed c5z too.
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 210
Likes: 0
From: Ravenswood West Virginia
K series is phenominal but for the money all you need is a hatch, B-series, 35r, 1000cc's, rods/pistons, head studs and Jeff Evans and youre an animal on the highway lol REALLY embarrassing some exotics on the highway. ( yes it's "still a Honda" ) lol but goddamn its fun...
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,842
Likes: 5
From: Enid Ok
St. Jude Donor '13-'14
Other then having fun arguing with friends it all comes down too who has more money to spend, other then that the LSX is a better starting platform then the honda engines as dollar for dollar mods the Honda will never catch up.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,270
Likes: 29
From: Chilliwack B.C.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,075
Likes: 4
From: Asheville NC
Corvette only guy's forget that there are lot's of import tuner guy's like myself at age 43 and younger that own both an import and a Corvette. I own a C5Z and I DD and own a modded Subaru WRX.
I was at one time a huge DSM guy that owned a 500whp 2g 97 Mitsubishi Eclipse turbo before I sold it and bought a highly modded 06 Yamaha YZF-R1 sport bike.
I thought back in the mid to late 90's that turbo charging and supercharging would be the way of the future, and it is starting to look like that more and more as time goes by.
I'm not a brand loyal type of guy and I can appreciate and respect any make of car that is fast, but I have always wanted a Corvette and when the C5Z came out years ago I told myself that one day I was going to finally get one, and I did. I love it with a passion!!
I was at one time a huge DSM guy that owned a 500whp 2g 97 Mitsubishi Eclipse turbo before I sold it and bought a highly modded 06 Yamaha YZF-R1 sport bike.
I thought back in the mid to late 90's that turbo charging and supercharging would be the way of the future, and it is starting to look like that more and more as time goes by.
I'm not a brand loyal type of guy and I can appreciate and respect any make of car that is fast, but I have always wanted a Corvette and when the C5Z came out years ago I told myself that one day I was going to finally get one, and I did. I love it with a passion!!
Racer
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 263
Likes: 0
From: Fort Hood TX
Honestly being in the younger crowd and owning a Corvette I hear this kind of stuff all the time...
The best argument you can give (it's more of a fact)
is...my mom drives a Civic...and I drive a Corvette ;]
The best argument you can give (it's more of a fact)
is...my mom drives a Civic...and I drive a Corvette ;]
Pro
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 564
Likes: 12
From: Vancouver British Columbia
I can't believe the ignorance of people. You really started a thread like this...lol.
The fact is, a hack can build anything...a camaro, corvette, mustang, chevelle or honda. There are half assed builders attempting to make all kinds of cars fast. The simple fact is though, camaro's, corvettes or various mustangs just hand you more out of the box...in terms of straight line performance. In turn, their owners think they've achieved some monument of success when they run 11's in their Camaro.
I built Honda's for over 10 years as my primary business. I've built components and engines for Honda's that made over 900whp and 650wtq. I HAVE built and owned 10 sec capable Hondas and driven them daily...and were I next to you at a street light you'd have never had a clue.
Fact is, a real builder knows anything fast...is respectable...doesn't matter what it is. If you truly respect ability, then seeing a guy go 9 seconds on a 2 liter, while you struggle to achieve it with rwd and a 5-7liter...funny how you look down upon that person...lol.
Fact of the matter is, the Corvette is an incredible machine for the money. I know many Honda guys driving them. Corvettes are very respected in the import world, as are many other cars. The LSx platform is very respected in that world as well.
The fact is though, what do YOU know about the Honda platform to judge it. Honda heads, as stated, flow HUGE amounts of air. Honda injects race technology more quickly into their street platforms than does GM. Vtec technology was developed in F1 and was in a production car in THREE years! Variable timing and lift technology is just NOW being fully developed by the big three...20+ years after Honda started using it.
Regardless...debating with folks like you is fairly pointless. You have an ignorance that just doesn't go away, and it's what compromises your ability as an enthusiast.
In departing, I'll leave a pic of myself with a good friend of mine who works out your way in CA. We are standing in front of his 1000hp Civic, at SEMA, that he built in less than 2 months from the time Honda provided him the vehicle. That is paired with the vehicle that he exhibited the year before, the CRZ which made 500+hp on a 1.5 liter and got 50+mpg. We have long known each other, and exhibited together at La Auto Show, as well as others. Bisi forgot more than most builders know, twice his age.
If that's too young for you...or too ricer...know that Smokey Yunik, one of the most respected builders of V8's in history, was an advocate of turbocharged 4 cylinders, and even had a 50mpg turbo'd Fiero back in the 80's. Those who were true builders, could see beyond the V8 as the holy grail...it's about power...efficiency...and execution...period.
The fact is, a hack can build anything...a camaro, corvette, mustang, chevelle or honda. There are half assed builders attempting to make all kinds of cars fast. The simple fact is though, camaro's, corvettes or various mustangs just hand you more out of the box...in terms of straight line performance. In turn, their owners think they've achieved some monument of success when they run 11's in their Camaro.
I built Honda's for over 10 years as my primary business. I've built components and engines for Honda's that made over 900whp and 650wtq. I HAVE built and owned 10 sec capable Hondas and driven them daily...and were I next to you at a street light you'd have never had a clue.
Fact is, a real builder knows anything fast...is respectable...doesn't matter what it is. If you truly respect ability, then seeing a guy go 9 seconds on a 2 liter, while you struggle to achieve it with rwd and a 5-7liter...funny how you look down upon that person...lol.
Fact of the matter is, the Corvette is an incredible machine for the money. I know many Honda guys driving them. Corvettes are very respected in the import world, as are many other cars. The LSx platform is very respected in that world as well.
The fact is though, what do YOU know about the Honda platform to judge it. Honda heads, as stated, flow HUGE amounts of air. Honda injects race technology more quickly into their street platforms than does GM. Vtec technology was developed in F1 and was in a production car in THREE years! Variable timing and lift technology is just NOW being fully developed by the big three...20+ years after Honda started using it.
Regardless...debating with folks like you is fairly pointless. You have an ignorance that just doesn't go away, and it's what compromises your ability as an enthusiast.
In departing, I'll leave a pic of myself with a good friend of mine who works out your way in CA. We are standing in front of his 1000hp Civic, at SEMA, that he built in less than 2 months from the time Honda provided him the vehicle. That is paired with the vehicle that he exhibited the year before, the CRZ which made 500+hp on a 1.5 liter and got 50+mpg. We have long known each other, and exhibited together at La Auto Show, as well as others. Bisi forgot more than most builders know, twice his age.
If that's too young for you...or too ricer...know that Smokey Yunik, one of the most respected builders of V8's in history, was an advocate of turbocharged 4 cylinders, and even had a 50mpg turbo'd Fiero back in the 80's. Those who were true builders, could see beyond the V8 as the holy grail...it's about power...efficiency...and execution...period.
