I stopped by my local Ford dealer today - they had two 03 super-cobras - both sold and they had already sold a third.

I asked the salesman - very friendly and not a typical salesman BTW, what the pricing was like, he told me that they were getting 2k over msrp.

I got my Z06 for 3k UNDER msrp. by way of comparison, but these mustangs are going to be really hot sellers for a while.

Very nice cars though - and even a 'vert.

The salesman informed me that these have "390 HP at the rear wheels"...

best regards -

mqqn

 

Ask him to calculate the power to weight ratio's of both car's. That is of couse if he can do complicated math equations.

But for fun show him this:

Power-To-Weight Ratio Comparison Mass HP Lbs/Hp
2000 BMW M 2899 240 12.1
2000 Audi TT 2655 225 11.8
2000 Porsche Boxster 2855 250 11.4
1999 C5 Coupe 3250 345 9.42
1995 Corvette ZR-1 3535 405 8.73
1999 Porsche GT3 2975 360 8.26
2000 Ferrari Modena 3241 395 8.21
2000 Porsche Turbo 3400 415 8.19
2001 Corvette Z06 3115 385 8.09
1999 Dodge Viper 3380 450 7.51

The 02 Z factors in at 7.69. Based on what has been published the 03 SC Stang weighs in between 3550 and 3600 lbs. Giving the benefit of doubt at 3550 lbs the SC Stang has a power to weight ratio of 9.10 roughly the same as a regular C5 power to weight ratio of 9.28. Add the aero advantage of the C5 coupe over the stang and I'd call it a draw.

If I were an 03 SC stang owner I'd be worried about regular C5's and leave the Z06 alone.

What a morron.

Tom
USAF Retired


[Modified by AFVETTE, 2:24 AM 7/12/2002]

 

Did the guy in the right lane let off the gas??? :confused:


[Modified by IH8PONYS, 3:39 AM 7/12/2002]

 

I am with Les on this one. :yesnod:

 

I can't argue with the real-world results we are starting to see, and I am glad for it - since I have a Z06. But I would like to point out one thing that is important and that a lot of folks are forgetting, or overlooking...

Peak Hp/lbs is not the end-all of calculations.

You have to look at several factors...

1. Gearing
2. Aero
3. Hp Area under the curve/lbs

Gearing is similar on the cars.

Aero goes to the vette, although I wonder what the C/D is on a Z06 compared to a coupe?

Hp area under the curve gets complicated. The 2003 Cobra has GOBS more torque down low than the Z06. (390 @ 3,500 rpm) My feeling is that the Cobra in a 1/8th mile is gonna be a wicked competitor for the Z06, while the Z06 will pull away on the second half of the track.

I would argue this. I see your point. 4 seats, and all that. But the Cobra also isn't a plain old Mustang.

And, we aren't gonna be able to compare to a Camaro or Firebird soon.

One other feeling, if the car is in the same league performance-wise, then it deserves to be compared - even if it does fall somewhat short.

And, it is going to very likely be SIMPLE (based on the results people have had with the Lightnings) to turn the boost up on the Cobra, and there are gonna be a LOT of them significantly faster than stock, with VERY LITTLE effort or $ expended.

I agree with that. I wonder if on Viper forums they ridicule us and say we shouldn't be compared to them? :)

Agree! And if they do that, then they have to keep the Corvette out in front of the Camarobirds so we benefit too!

 

I can't see why anyone would buy a Cobra when slighltly used Vette or ZO6 is close to the same price. I payed about 32K for a 99 FRC with 12K miles a year ago. If the Cobra was around at the time for 32K, I would not even concider it. I respect the Cobra as a fast car, but it was not designed from the ground up to be a sports car. All of the basics are in favor of the Vette. Weight, Center of gravity,better suspension,stiffer,better wieght distribution, etc. You can take any car, throw a super charger on, bigger brakes,bigger wheels, and stiffer suspension and get decent results. But push the car to the limit and and the real difference comes out. Sure the mustang is a great muscule car, but it is not a world class sports car.
Luke

 

Well that would be true, IF the 03 Cobra was making the advertised hp of 390.. but the lowest average dyno reading I've seen was about 350 to the wheels, up to about 380 at the wheels..

Taking your 3550 lbs and dividing it by the 402 hp a 350 RWHP car is making, your weight/hp comes out to 8.83

using the 380 hp at the wheels, approx 437 net hp, gives you a 8.12 lbs/hp figure..

also like someone else said, the 03 Cobra has alot more low end torque than the Z06..

Cd for the Z06/FRC is .31, the coupe is .29... I don't know what it is for the 03 Cobra.. Just called SVT, and while they couldn't give me an exact figure, its about the same as the 01 Cobra, which was .36.

 

The Cobra weighs 3700lbs. The earlier models may have been 3550.
No way they weigh less than a SS/Z-28 (3500lbs with all-alum LS1)

 

2003 SVT Cobra curb weight-coupe: 3,665lb.,convertible 3,780lb. The Cobra is built to that $35,000 price point, so you don't get the comfort items like lumbar air bladders,electric telescoping steering wheel,memory for seat position etc. I also noticed that the shifter is placed too far forward ergonomically to get a good shifting position. This may not matter to someone who is just looking for a power kick but to go from a Corvette to a Cobra is unthinkable for me. That level of performance is not a far reach for a Vette with a few mods let alone a 405hp Z06. The Corvette chassis is superior and includes active handling as well so I don't see why the Cobra is being compared to a Corvette. This is a definite apples to oranges comparison. This discussion reminds me of the Buick Grand National, a car that has out accelerated me more than once. Never did I even consider trading in any of my vehicles to get one, though I admire their performance when modified. Their are Corvette's and their are other cars. :D Raul

 

Raul,

I hate to be the one to break this to you, but the Z06 isn't available with lumbar air bladders and electric telescoping steering wheel. Memory seat is an option though. Maybe it is the $50k price point holding it back? :)

 

Just to clarify, the 03 Cobra does have electric lumbar, side bolster, and thigh bolster air bladders on the drivers seat.

 

When I went to Greenway Ford in Orlando the Yellow 2003 Cobra they have in stock has a power drivers seat but it did not have an air bladder for the lumbar support or side bolsters as per the salesman. I remember looking for the buttons on the side of the seat facing the door because the side bolsters were too confining. Is this an option that was not on this vehicle or was I misinformed? Another thing that sticks in my mind was the reach for the shifter. With the seat placed back for good pedal reach the shifter was out of my arms reach. It seems the ergonomics are not that well thought out. The Z06 should have no problem outrunning the Cobra, however it is purpose built as more of a race car and the sport seats were sacrificed for weight savings. I do admit though that sitting in EB-Z drivers seat Saturday at Bradenton Florida that the 2002 Z06 seats are more lumbar supportive than the Cobra and the seating is ergonomicaly superior to it. :cool: Raul

 

The bolster controls are on the right front of the seat. The only options on a Cobra are chrome wheels and no cost spoiler delete.

I'm rather average height/weight wise and I've got no problems. To each his own, though. The seats are quite adjustable for tilt and height, so I imagine had you spent more time screwing with them, you'd of found something close to tolerable.
Again, to each his own. If you had been able to adjust the Cobra seat somewhat, it may have redeemed them to some extent, maybe not.

 

Heck a H/C ZO, would cream a viper! And that still cheaper than a new viper. :cheers:

 

The day WE (wife has a say) bought the 02 Mag Red2 Coupe Auto...I first brought home a Saleen SC (02)...

My wife asked, "how much?", I showed her the sticker and she then said, "What about a Corvette, you have dreamed of and drooled over every new one and many of the classics".

I immediately pulled out of the driveway and went to the Ford dealer, got my car back after the extended test drive...very nice, brutal car!"

Drove the chevy dealer, where I knew the GM personally, and brought the vette home for less than the sticker of the Saleen SC.

Am I happy, yes...unless I get "Killed and show up on the Mustang Forum as cobra fodder"

Are they really a danger to C5s and the stellar z06?

Wishing I had more $ for the z06....

 

I hate to get into these types of discussions but I just can't seem to help myself.

For all of you who don't think the Mustang will be a challenge for a vette because it's supposed to hold the curves better, you might want to check out the skid pad figures on the Cobra, several mags have it above the c5 and slightly below the Z06.

On a race track I think the weight of the Cobra will hurt the brakes, but an upgraded brake kit like alot of vette guys use will help that tons.

also, the basic free mods done by vette guys will help the Cobra even more.

So far the highest dyno pull numbers ive seen so far are 404hp at the rear wheels and something like 377tq.

Thats removing the silencer on the filter, changing the paper filter to K&N, and I "think" a diffrent catback, that isn't designed for the 03 Cobra. the belief is once the cobra gets a supercharger friendly exhaust system the numbers will go up. and thats without a chip, or pulley, the SC turns at about 8#'s a pulley change will put it at about 14 or 15#'s or more, maf programing is getting about 20hp to the wheels also.

Ford had to litteraly bottle up the engine to pass emissions and drive by noise laws because of the SC, the silencer is relativly tiny making a huge bottle neck as far as air flow and the exhaust is reported to look like it was lifted off a GT using 2.5 instead of 3.0.

I like vettes and im thinking of buying one but I just can't stand it when people get snobbish about their cars like it's the best thing since sliced bread (yea a mustang may beat me but it's still a mustang)

If I do get a Vette over a Cobra ill make sure I get a bottle of NOS so I can at least try and put up a fight.

Ill honestly say that the attitute of many vette enthusiast turns my stomach about being stero typed by others because of the type of car I buy.
I want the Vette for autocrossing and such, but I hope the rest of the vette community isnt like so many of the people who seem to post on message boards.


[Modified by Bishop, 4:46 AM 7/18/2002]

 

The reason for the shifter beeing so far forward is that you got these little japs cilimbing one rung at a time. They go from toyotas and hondas to flea bitten stangs so ford puts the shiffter way in the front, then they just move the seat up all the way.

 

Yeah, I like Vettes, and I OWN A Z06 and I still hate to see that crap. It embarrasses me. I guess there are dumbbutt Mustang owners and dumbbutt Corvette owners and they talk trash about each other, and then there are those who just enjoy any well-done performance car.

 

Why don't some of you guys hit the drag strip this weekend and find out for sure what the Cobra can do? Our very own Venom Lover (Mike) posted a CHALLENGE to all the C5 guys in the kill section on this board - he is going to the drag strip this weekend, and so far NOBODY has agreed to show up and race. He's a great guy and it's just for kicks - so why not show and see the Cobra first hand????

 

Ok, I have seen it in action. I was at Sears Point last night (wed night drags) with my Z06 and this is what i saw. There was a guy there with the new cobra talking all kinds of sh**. There was a fellow Z06 owner there with his 2002 black on mod red. The guy who owned the cobra was standing there with a small crowd around his car with the hood up talking out his arz!! So after proding a bit (it did not take long because ford guys love to bash chevy's) I had him talking about how much faster his cobra is than any stock Z06!!!! :lol: . He did not realize that i was a vette owner. Oh yea i guess i should throw in that he had a sticker on his back window that said "Vette Killer". Ok so here comes the next round of time runs and i slid my car out of order to wait for him then slid into the lane so we were matched. TO make a long story short i ran a 12.23 @114 2.09 60' to his 13.01 at 108 1.93 60'!!! :boxing . I would say that it was a complete butt woopin!!!! Good Night :sleep: . And the Victor is as would expect :chevy Ok then i went to talk to him and here came all the excuses!! "My car is not broke in yet so i am short shifting it" :nopity "I spun them really hard of the line" (dont forget he pulled a sub 2 sec 60' time) :nopity then my favorite one of them all ( well we were running into the wind and the wind effects my car more than yours because yours is a little more aerodynamic) :confused: :confused: . It is funny how Ford guys blame chevy guys for bashin there rides! Ford guys are the ones who do the bashin. I just let my ride do the bashin for me! :smash: :cheers:


[Modified by SilverZ06Chris, 8:28 PM 7/18/2002]