C5 Final Design Update
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,764
Likes: 375
From: Central Florida
The C5 is in my opinion the closest anyone has ever come to capturing the perfect body shape. There are some things I would have done quite differently however.
In the illustration it may appear that the changes are subtle however, just about everything has been changed. yet, it still looks like a C5. Angles,heights,dimensions,wheelbase and width have been changed
The nose has been shortened considerably
The rear quarters brought up and back considerably
The window lines have been lowered and angles changed
Rear brake cooling ducts have been integrated into the body
Front brake cooling ducts have been moved into the corners and integrated into the front bumper
Sealed Beam headlights replace the pop ups
Angular and symmetrical changes. Everything from the mirrors, brake ducts to door handles all reside within body lines.
The hood is lower at the base of the windshield
The front fenders have a touch more flare
The front wheel well size has been decreased
The roof height has been dropped substantially
This car is also a wide body with suspension dimension changes but still uses the basic lines of the car.
Side duct lines have been widened considerably
Not Shown is the large (mouth) cooling area in the front bumper
The stock car is begging for air and it shouldn't have to rely on the air deflector (vacuum effect) to get it. Engines temps would plummet with more air. We shouldn't have to turn on our fan and ac compressors at stoplights to keep this car under 200 degrees. Simple air cooling would keep under hood temps much lower than stock.
Seats would be moved closer to the floor of the car( The stock seat height is something I would consider to be one of the biggest fails of the stock design. They are awkward and high, offer little bolstering and create an awkward feel. A buoy effect in a way to the driver, forcing the driver to really plant the left foot into the 3rd pedal during even moderate cornering. This design solves those issues by dropping the cockpit and seats closer to the chassis.
This car should have been wider from the factory.
This illustration was done out of curiosity for what could've been.
I am fully aware that these changes would cause a near complete redesign of the chassis and just about everything else.
The more I drive my C5, the more I want to change things that would cost a fortune to change. I am starting to realize at the ripe age of 43 that I will literally have to build a car from the ground up to be what I envision. When you start talking about the funds needed to do that you might as well buy a Ferrari.
C5 is a great car but could've been even better
In the illustration it may appear that the changes are subtle however, just about everything has been changed. yet, it still looks like a C5. Angles,heights,dimensions,wheelbase and width have been changed
The nose has been shortened considerably
The rear quarters brought up and back considerably
The window lines have been lowered and angles changed
Rear brake cooling ducts have been integrated into the body
Front brake cooling ducts have been moved into the corners and integrated into the front bumper
Sealed Beam headlights replace the pop ups
Angular and symmetrical changes. Everything from the mirrors, brake ducts to door handles all reside within body lines.
The hood is lower at the base of the windshield
The front fenders have a touch more flare
The front wheel well size has been decreased
The roof height has been dropped substantially
This car is also a wide body with suspension dimension changes but still uses the basic lines of the car.
Side duct lines have been widened considerably
Not Shown is the large (mouth) cooling area in the front bumper
The stock car is begging for air and it shouldn't have to rely on the air deflector (vacuum effect) to get it. Engines temps would plummet with more air. We shouldn't have to turn on our fan and ac compressors at stoplights to keep this car under 200 degrees. Simple air cooling would keep under hood temps much lower than stock.
Seats would be moved closer to the floor of the car( The stock seat height is something I would consider to be one of the biggest fails of the stock design. They are awkward and high, offer little bolstering and create an awkward feel. A buoy effect in a way to the driver, forcing the driver to really plant the left foot into the 3rd pedal during even moderate cornering. This design solves those issues by dropping the cockpit and seats closer to the chassis.
This car should have been wider from the factory.
This illustration was done out of curiosity for what could've been.
I am fully aware that these changes would cause a near complete redesign of the chassis and just about everything else.
The more I drive my C5, the more I want to change things that would cost a fortune to change. I am starting to realize at the ripe age of 43 that I will literally have to build a car from the ground up to be what I envision. When you start talking about the funds needed to do that you might as well buy a Ferrari.
C5 is a great car but could've been even better
You say it (c5) was almost perfect, but you changed almost everything?
I know you don't care what I think, but I strongly disagree this is "even better"
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 224
Likes: 33
A lot of thinking went into the recent concept pic. I agree that particular design would be pretty much track only though.
I don't mind opinions at all ForcedVert. Sometimes the Naysayers help.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 224
Likes: 33
Where are you getting $58k from? The most expensive C5 available? My '02 Z stickered just under $51k, which cars were $58k?
Traffic and usability isn't a moot point. Usability is a huge aspect of any car design. My car is very mild, but it wouldn't make a good DD based off the few mods I've done to it. You have to consider things like that unless you're building anything else than a toy.
Even if I gave you a $58k budget to build a car, how are you planning to accomplish it? You can't build a usable prototype of anything for that amount. Have you ever seen the actual budget it takes to develop a car? There is a reason so many halo cars are sold at a loss.
Traffic and usability isn't a moot point. Usability is a huge aspect of any car design. My car is very mild, but it wouldn't make a good DD based off the few mods I've done to it. You have to consider things like that unless you're building anything else than a toy.
Even if I gave you a $58k budget to build a car, how are you planning to accomplish it? You can't build a usable prototype of anything for that amount. Have you ever seen the actual budget it takes to develop a car? There is a reason so many halo cars are sold at a loss.
Here's my window sticker. Almost 57K. Not 58. My bad
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 4,260
Likes: 429
From: Houston TX
The latest concept "rendering" is just a graphic drawing. Not a prototype or anything trying to be developed. The actual car I'm building uses all standard body panels(modified) The rear bumper is all new and fabricated.
Here's my window sticker. Almost 57K. Not 58. My bad
Here's my window sticker. Almost 57K. Not 58. My bad
So with everything you're complaining about fixed, would you have been comfortable with the car costing $77k instead of $57k? What other car in the era for the same price comes close to the performance offered? Yes, the C5 has areas that could have been better, but would it have sold if it cost 20-30k more? My guess is probably not.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 224
Likes: 33
The verts make the Z06s seem like even more of a bargain.
So with everything you're complaining about fixed, would you have been comfortable with the car costing $77k instead of $57k? What other car in the era for the same price comes close to the performance offered? Yes, the C5 has areas that could have been better, but would it have sold if it cost 20-30k more? My guess is probably not.
So with everything you're complaining about fixed, would you have been comfortable with the car costing $77k instead of $57k? What other car in the era for the same price comes close to the performance offered? Yes, the C5 has areas that could have been better, but would it have sold if it cost 20-30k more? My guess is probably not.
The column lock issues should have never happened and should not raise the cost of a vehicle to have them not malfunction. GM recalled the M6 cars but the recall did not work. Then they just left it and screwed their customers, forcing them to buy the bypass module. To me, that is unacceptable. If they fixed the problem , then cool, but they didn't.
No matter how much you pay for a car no one should have to worry about issues like this. It is a poor design and it should have never been implemented on this car.
I had my car a month when the column locked up. Unacceptable
Yes the z06 is one hell of a bargain, especially these days
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 4,260
Likes: 429
From: Houston TX
I agree that the seats are garbage. It's even more apparent after sitting in proper seats that actually support you. I understand they needed a seat to fit heavier people, but an actual supportive seat as an option would have been nice. At least they've addressed it in the C7.
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,346
Likes: 755
From: Greensboro Nc
I agree that the seats are garbage. It's even more apparent after sitting in proper seats that actually support you. I understand they needed a seat to fit heavier people, but an actual supportive seat as an option would have been nice. At least they've addressed it in the C7.
The quality of the leather was far superior, and they did hold tighter, but with the bolstering mods on my corvette, I only miss the gorgeous look and quality of the sparcos, nothing else.
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Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 224
Likes: 33
My First Take on the C7
I've been on the fence about the C7 since it came out.
They look amazing at certain angles and not so much in other angles.
AKAPounder wanted to see my take on the C7 so here it is.
They look amazing at certain angles and not so much in other angles.
AKAPounder wanted to see my take on the C7 so here it is.
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 4,260
Likes: 429
From: Houston TX
I'm kinda against that. I had sparco Milano presteige's in my 350z, and they were only marginally better than my stock z06 seats with added bolstering.
The quality of the leather was far superior, and they did hold tighter, but with the bolstering mods on my corvette, I only miss the gorgeous look and quality of the sparcos, nothing else.
The quality of the leather was far superior, and they did hold tighter, but with the bolstering mods on my corvette, I only miss the gorgeous look and quality of the sparcos, nothing else.
It's too bad we don't have more seat options available with the C5. I would imagine a good seat would completely transform the car into something way more fun to drive.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,764
Likes: 375
From: Central Florida
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,052
Likes: 112
American cars cannot compete with German nor Japanese cars. American cars lack the fit, finish, reliability, resale value that foreign cars enjoy. American car designs leave a lot to be desired. Lack innovation is also a problem. I don't think that these things are very important to American car companies.
Once this country was the leader in all of the above, however we have got our butts spanked by foreign companies. The greatest, most powerful country today cannot build a decent car anymore and have not been able to build a decent car since the 1970s. They are trying for the last few years but still very far behind.
On a new car purchase, there is always a better option with a foreign car.
Once this country was the leader in all of the above, however we have got our butts spanked by foreign companies. The greatest, most powerful country today cannot build a decent car anymore and have not been able to build a decent car since the 1970s. They are trying for the last few years but still very far behind.
On a new car purchase, there is always a better option with a foreign car.
Well that isnt true. you can buy a nice e46 bmw for like $5000 now. i almost bought a fully loaded z3 for $2500.
Japanese cars? I bought my fully loaded 350z for $7500 back in 2009. The car probably sold new for almost $35k.
There was a z4 3.5 that sold at carmax for $25k, the original sticker on it was in the 70k area.
How about an a4? no, just burn the money instead.
Fit and finish maybe, but value and resale? germany is way below
Japanese cars? I bought my fully loaded 350z for $7500 back in 2009. The car probably sold new for almost $35k.
There was a z4 3.5 that sold at carmax for $25k, the original sticker on it was in the 70k area.
How about an a4? no, just burn the money instead.
Fit and finish maybe, but value and resale? germany is way below
Yes, BMWs are the ultimate depreciation machine. You can't compare a garden variety E46 to the Corvette though. You'd have to compare it to ths M cars, which you won't find for the prices you listed. A decent E46 M3 runs about $15k these days, roughly the price of a C5. A clean, very low mileage example can run $30k+ depending on color and options.
Generally, the more expensive the car is initially, the more depreciation there is to deal with. I don't think any car, short of a limited production exotic, is immune to depreciation.
Generally, the more expensive the car is initially, the more depreciation there is to deal with. I don't think any car, short of a limited production exotic, is immune to depreciation.
German cars = Pure driving pleasure and innovation, fit and finish.
America cars = None of the above. We have ways to go.....still.
Last edited by Studying4boards; Apr 30, 2016 at 10:43 AM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,300
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From: Odessa FL
St. Jude Donor '10-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17
1/4 mile/AutoX
Joined: Jun 2014
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From: Buffalo Texas
2. I like the what you did at the rear of the door glass, flows better
3. the shorter vent area is better
4. the bottom edge would be destroyed from my dirt road !!!!!
Still love my C 5 !!!!!!!!!!!!
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 224
Likes: 33
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 224
Likes: 33
Yeah, while my version of the C7 may fight a little bit for identity, the design is less quirky. Like I said before though, The stock c7 looks amazing at certain angles. Then not so good at other angles. I will do more just to see. It was fun. There is a little of the Callaway C12 in my C7 if you really look at it. I agree about the side vent. Honestly I think the stock vent is totally lost on the body and it breaks up the body lines. The smaller vent made sense, either that or keep it wide all the way back. I still do not like the rear of the C7. Even my rework doesn't make me feel it anymore. I don't like the lights or the squareness of this rear end. Chevy is doing this across the board. The other day I thought I was behind a Camaro from 100 ft back, it was a Malibu. Many of my styling cues come from military aircraft and race bred designs. That's kinda where my heart resides when it comes to cars. I feel the stock C7 read end is way too short, yet it looks amazing from wheel level 3/4 rear corner view. So even after I played with the C7 , I'm still on the fence about it. The C5 is still a better looking car.
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,346
Likes: 755
From: Greensboro Nc
Never tried Sparco seats before so I can't comment on those or other aftermarket seats. I stand by my statement on the oem C5 seats though. They have no support in the turns and are not very comfortable in general to me. I've been spoiled as my E90 had the sport seats and my 997 has the adaptive sport seats which are amazing.
It's too bad we don't have more seat options available with the C5. I would imagine a good seat would completely transform the car into something way more fun to drive.
It's too bad we don't have more seat options available with the C5. I would imagine a good seat would completely transform the car into something way more fun to drive.
The C5 seats have good bolstering (with the added padding) at the waist level, but nothing in the shoulders. I would imagine based on the average american, and especially the average corvette owner, that this is the opposite of what they need, leading to all the complaints about it.
Pic to show off my massive delts.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,764
Likes: 375
From: Central Florida
I don't dislike the all of the things you have shown, but I will admit I like my Carravaggio spoiler better than a built in one, to me the built in ones remind me of a maverick?
and I like the mcm hood design better, it's the only hood that looks right on the car to me besides stock, I like c5s with ground effects and front splitters, I just don't like them too molded in making the car look too thick, these are all opinions so don't take offense as I'm not someone saying the car is holy and should not be messed with. I like what I like, as do you.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,937
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From: My interests are mobile
I think it was quite obvious why the seats in the C5 were what they were. Owners of the C4 complained about ingress/egress and seat fitment (murica=fat). C5 focused on easier in and out, the seats were sloppy to fit fat people. It's what was necessary to sell cars.
Keep in mind, during the C5 design foundation era, GM was fighting a bankruptcy/merger. Corvette was almost killed and narrowly escaped death. The budget on C5 wasn't huge, given the fact it was a total redesign. The C5 pulled off amazing things given the obstacles it faced.
Keep in mind, during the C5 design foundation era, GM was fighting a bankruptcy/merger. Corvette was almost killed and narrowly escaped death. The budget on C5 wasn't huge, given the fact it was a total redesign. The C5 pulled off amazing things given the obstacles it faced.