Worked at Discount Tire for two years. Star pattern followed by a clockwise circle, just to be sure. One less thing to worry about- do it right the first time.

 

I've had the exact same incidences occur when I've had tires installed by others than myself. I've had wheels tightened so much I was on the verge of not being able to remove the lugnuts, even using a long pipe on a breaker bar with a heavy friend standing on it. Actually once broke a breaker bar and the nut still wasn't loosened. I always loosen and retighten properly. I thought in a GM publication I once read it should be 30, 60, 100. Years ago I corrected wheel pulsation in VW's when braking by loosening and retorquing the wheel lugs.

 

Around the turn of the century, GM had a huge problem across all models of their line-up with brake rotors warping. This happened at low mileage and while under warranty. GM went back and forth whether they would cover the rotors under warranty or whether they would claim it was a maintenance item.

From a dealer's perspective, our techs were convinced it was a problem with the rotor's manufacturing process and the attempt to lighten the rotors. At some point, GM came to the conclusion the fact dealers were not torquing the wheels properly was a major contributing factor to the rotors warping. Techs were quick to point out they had never torqued wheels and rotors didn't warp previous to their being changed.

The argument went back and forth for some time and was very expensive for both the factory and the dealers. Consumers were pissed off when told they owed for new rotors while the vehicle was still under warranty and as a dealer I paid for a number of new rotors on a goodwill basis. I bought equipment for the techs in all our stores to properly torque the wheels and we did find many of the problems stopped. Not all of them.

 

I have a couple of torque wrenches and use them frequently. For certain the wheels are done with the suggested star pattern and done in steps to 100 pounds foot of torque.

Worthwhile checking them after a few runs, never hurts and often I am surprised by the fact some are loose.

Good topic.

 

It's good to know that there is a graduation pattern on these cars. I've yet to have my wheels off, but will use that method when I put them on.

When I change over my snow tires on my truck, I'll use my air impact to remove the lug nuts, but typically will install them my hand. If I have my electric impact out, I may start the lugs by hand and confirm they're spinning smoothly and then use the electric to spin slowly to the first kick on the tool, and then do the rest of my torquing by hand. I've never used my air impact to put anything on, simply because every one of my friends/acquaintances that have run into snapped studs / crossthreaded lugs had previously gone to a tire shop that just mashed their lug nuts on with the impact.

What I need to improve in my method is the re-check after 20 miles...admittedly I'm not as good on that as I should be.

I'm a big fan of torquing everything to spec if for no other reason then I don't have to think about it again. I actually ended up missing a bolt when I did the suspension lift in my old Tacoma and ended up with a noticeable clank. Went back through all the bolts and found one loose, retorqued it and problem solved. Gives me a good excuse to use my tools.

 

I agree about torquing to specifications lug nuts. And fully appreciate Discount Tire/American Tire adherence to these procedures.

But I have two questions: What do you guys do in climates that involve exposure to salt? Especially involving open end lug nuts. And is there an issue with using a small amount of anti seize between the contact surface of the wheel and hub to prevent galvanic corrosion?

Will the indicated torque from a torque wrench be changed if a small amount of anti seize compound is placed on the threads? Is anti seize considered a lubricant? And isn't most of the surface that effects the torque reading the contact surface between the conical lug nut surface and it's contact surface of the wheel--and not the thread?

And lastly--do you guys torque your oil filters to specification?

Two things that are commonly over torqued: lug nuts and oil filters.

 

I am not going to get into a pissing contest, back when I worked in a Dealership (long time ago) no one in the Auto industry torqued lug nuts. Not saying it was right, one thing to consider was there were always Techs who were way above others in talent and pride in their work. You could always find a Tech who just hammered the nuts with a impact. When someone does something day in and day out they can get really good at what they do. I would be willing to bet my impact tightened lug nuts were within a few pounds of correct torque. Think that is crazy well maybe, but we will never know. We always used a star tighten process. Another note is many torque wrenches are not all that accurate. Snap On had a program where they would take your wrench and have it calibrated while giving you a loner. ( I always had many torque wrenches) I used this program very often. I have used a impact on my lug nuts my entire life and have never had warped rotors or any other issue. I have always used a torque wrench on Mag Wheels of any type.

 

Pounder interesting that you bring up the idea of torque wrenches being out of spec. I think there was a thread on here about how to check the settings yourself. Can't find it however. But point taken that they can be out as well.

I think a lot of garages use those different colour extensions on air guns that somehow are supposed regulate the torque. No idea if they work or not but my gut feeling is they are not very accurate. That is based on trying to get wheels off that a tech has installed.

 

we have come a long way in tech tools of many kinds, at the Discount I use they use a impact that has torque settings. watch a video of GM building a engine and a machine with multiple impacts comes down from above and torqueing a whole set of head bolts at once.

 

At the Discount i used, they were the ones that over torqued my Blazer lugnuts that i had to use a 5ft pipe to remove. The tools used in GM assembly plants are computer controlled and calibrated

 

As most have pointed out tightening the lug nuts to the correct torque is very important! Not enough torque can cause lug nuts to loosen up which can damage the lug seats in the wheel, break studs, and in a worst case scenario the wheel may come off while driving around which I have personally seen happen more than once. If the lug nuts are too tight you can break studs, warp the rotors, bend the wheels and damage the lug seat on the wheel. I once worked as an automotive manager at Wal Mart for a very short amount of time and quit because I didn't agree with their service policies. The one I really didn't like was that all techs were required to apply anti seize to the wheel studs before installing wheels. I tried to plead my case that it was not a good idea to lubricate the threads because it would cause inaccurate torque readings which could cause the lug nuts to loosen and result in serious damage to the vehicle or injury to the occupants if the wheel came off while driving. I was told by upper management that it was their policy to add anti seize due to numerous complaints and repairs to broken and seized wheel studs. I know it's wrong as are many of their other policies so I'd advise not using Wal Mart for tires or oil changes. It's possible that other companies have similar policies so always ask if they use anti seize and make sure they properly torque your lug nuts.

Steve

 

well up here in the north never-seize is a must and widely used. GM recommended use a lubricant for proper torque ?? If the nuts and studs are full of corrosion you will never get the right torque. Just try and get some of the wheels off a car here without never-seize, especially with aluminum wheels. (not just on the lugs but the hub as well)

 

my point about technology !!
the Discount I used the torque was perfect and they told me to come back and have them rechecked after 200 miles.

 

At GM all torque guns are QC inspected, they get a tag and a recertification cert. the tag states when it was done and when it need to be done and who did it.

since the 80's GM tacks have bee required to use torque wenches.. its the hacks at a dealership who think they are Prima donnas that influence the young guys to throw away their schooling... A dealerships service manager is between a rock and a hard place since these Prima donnas bring in the bucks, he look good, he turns his back and the customer suffers.. its a fact that ANYONE WHO is caught short cutting GM procedure is subject to dismissal, but it rarely happened, thus the bad reputation by the consumer.. these prima donnas ruin the young guys who just got out of school. Teaching them all the short cuts and how to make money at the customer expense. At high reputation Dealerships , Techs do the job the way it is suppose to be. IT takes a long time to build that reputation , and these good dealership have no problem terminating a repeat Prima donna who is unwilling to follow procedures.

Like I've always said, it easy to see who are the hacks, and as I always say, be careful who you listen too here. There is only one right way to do anything.

Bill aka ET

 

Bill:

And what is the correct way in a corrosive environment? Dry threads that will quickly corrode and make it difficult to remove? Or the use of anti seize on the threads --that may cause false torque readings?

 

First, I grew up in a town that had seven divisions of GM and worked in the business there for many many years. I can assure you there were just as many "hacks" working for GM as there are working for the dealers. That includes factory production workers and engineers! As well, there are a number of very talented and dedicated folks working for both.

Second, GM has never had any right to dismiss any dealership employee for any reason. They work for and are paid by the dealer, not the manufacturer. The manufacturer can refuse to pay specific warranty claims to the dealer if they can prove the proper procedures were not followed such as the proper use of "special tools".

 

I can see why anti seize up north would help with all the salts and corrosion, but WM policy was to use it on all vehicles here in Cali which makes no sense to me. I have seen it used on hubs to wheels before, especially on non similar metals like aluminum to steel which naturally have a chemical reaction with each other, just not on studs. Are they still using factory torque specs with the anti seize? 100 ft#'s with lubricant vs 100 ft#'s dry will stretch the studs farther due to no friction on the seat or threads. If you can get a mic over both ends of the stud, you can see how much more the bolt is being stretched when everything is lubed. This is why all lug nut torque specs are dry. At WM the techs were still told to use factory specs which I thought was funny cause the reason why they were putting it on was to reduce the number of broken stud repairs which they were now also creating. I've often wondered if something like a dry film spray lube would be a better option?

Steve

 

GM uses the American bureau of standards and measures as it global. resource. Lug nits are classified as a dry torque spec. Using a lube of anti seize will increase the level of torque. Most people do not know the science behind tight. Its the stretch of the bolt thread that hold the nut to the bolt.. that stretch is defined by the metal, the thread pitch and type of bolt. there are B1 and b2 and other types of thread that qualify and nut or bolt for a certain application. threads which fill in the interspace.. there is a lot more to tightening a bolt than just leaving it to a hack to " wing it " . Be careful of those hacks who have winged it for 40 years. they give the dealerships a bad reputation.
Bill aka ET

 

The deanship is licensed by GM, and by contract are required to be certified by GM.. Failure to follow procedure can cause termination.. Hacks at the dealership or at the factory are subject to over sight, they just can do whatever they want. They are subject to discipline. These procedures are in place to protect against liability.

Again some guy using logic with no clue to How the car business works.. Do You think The Department of transportation does not require certifications for automobiles to conform to their requirements. Even the design has to be signed off for compliance. Clueless..

Lots of know it all in here but few with any real Know lege.

Bill aka ET

 

I'm sorry but you Sir are the one who does not have a clue what you are talking about. A dealership holds a franchise from the manufacturer, not a license. There is a vast difference between the two. It is rather obvious to those of us who have held multiple franchises from multiple manufacturers, you have no knowledge of that part of the system.

So called "hacks" (your words) working for a dealership are only subject to discipline by their employer, the dealership. Any liability they may create by doing poor work is a liability of the dealership not the manufacturer.

An automotive franchise is a very complicated item. It is regulated by multiple contracts between the Dealer Principal and the manufacturer. It also comes with a Policies and Procedures Manual of many hundreds of pages. Someone like you, who was merely an employee of the manufacturer, would not be expected to fully understand the process unless you were assigned to that area. On the other hand, those of us who invested our life savings in the dealership process understood it very well.

I am not picking a fight with you and I am sure it is evident you have a vast knowledge of automotive engineering. You should though recognize there are others who made their living in the dealership arena and have far more knowledge than you ever could have.