Nope, BPP sells a CAI also. Works very well also.

 

FWIW I put a blackwing on my 04 coupe shortly after buying the car. Didn't notice any change really. I have noticed tremendous change after adding full exhaust. I think it contributed much more when I freed up the exhaust flow.

 

"Sitting" is the operative word.

When the car is moving, the engine bay temperatures in front of the radiator and not within millimeters of the exhaust will be the same as the outside air. Please rfer back to TheWrench's post.

Thank you.

 

It's hard to really "free up" the exhaust the old fashioned way, when the catalytic converters are still in the loop. They are the most restrictive part of the flow these days.

 

I think you are missing my point... the air taken in by a black wing under the close hood of an LS1 with pcm demanding high speeds faNS on AT 233, IS COOKING THE air under the hood.. as oppose to the coldest air outside the engine bay... if heat extracting hood are loweing engine bay temps by 40 degrees ( manufacturers claims, with track data ) I would have to say engine bay temps must be atleast 40 degree hotter than outside air on a hot day... so a cold air system like vararam has to be better than air ingested by an under hood intake, unless that was a system that was helped buy cold air screens and a heat extracting hood.

 

E-T, talking about heat extraction, how much work would it be to make the side fender vents function for that purpose? I read somewhere that's what the vents were originally planned to do.

 

Nope, sorry, they're not.

Difference in intake air from a Blackwing and the ambient air is > 5 degrees Fahrenheit, or about 1 hp.

So sorry. Placebo effect.

pla·ce·bo ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pl-sb)
n. pl. pla·ce·bos or pla·ce·boes

1. A substance containing no medication and prescribed or given to reinforce a patient's expectation to get well.

2. An inactive substance or preparation used as a control in an experiment or test to determine the effectiveness of a medicinal drug.

3. Something of no intrinsic remedial value that is used to appease or reassure another.

4. (plä-chb) Roman Catholic Church. The service or office of vespers for the dead.

 

I thought that the difference in intake air from a Blackwing and the ambient air was < 5 degrees Fahrenheit.

 

From Jim Hall:
"The Blackwing sucks hot air. At 95-degrees IAT, the Blackwing will lose 1 degree of timing. At 135-degrees a full 12 degrees is pulled on the LS1 which equals 10 RWHP."

Before installing my cold air mod, in which fresh outside air is directed at the air filter from underneath, I would drive home on a Summer day and after criusing at a steady 50 MPH for 3 miles, would pull into my garage, pop the hood, and place my hand on the plastic airbridge. It was VERY hot to the touch, so much so, that I had to pull my hand away.

Repeating this procedure AFTER my cold air mod and on a temperature-similar day, the airbridge felt cool to the touch - a SIGNIFICANT difference, obviously due to the cold air scoop.
Folks, cold air induction works, and works well. You often cannot see the benefits on the dyno, but believe me, the SOTP difference is there.

 

Correct. Wrong operator.

The difference is less than 5 degrees Fahrenheit.

 

Errr... That was the old Jim Hall... he periodically reconstitutes himself depending on how sales are going.

Here's the new Jim Hall, right off his web site:

"The Stinger Intake is our newest intake system, and is probably the baddest *** intake on the market for the money. It features the same 25% more than stock flow numbers of our TRAP..."

And, here's a picture of the "Halltech Stinger:"



Compare that to the Blackwing:



Notice any, errr...., similarities?

Jim copied the Blackwing (which came first), right down to the filter color, after he had all the headaches with water ingestion back in the original "cold air" days with his now discontinued "TRIC." Some motors blew up and all of a sudden the "lifetime warranty" issues became very real for him. His new "cold air" intake is only recommended for "track use," and I don't know if it still comes with the same wet-suit waterproofing booty he was selling with the TRIC before that thing was completely discontinued.

Another "improvement" he touts is the "Warhead" filter -- the "highest flowing filter" and "least restrictive" on the market. You know why it flows so much? Because it also filters less.

The highest flow, least restriction comes from no filter at all.

There's a reason why the U.S. Army uses your tax dollars to put Donaldson filters on every tank, truck, and HUMVEE in the deserts of Iran and Afghanistan. They work. They "flow." And most importantly, they "filter."

That's the kind of performance and protection I want for my motor.

Finally, regarding your comment that you can't see the benefit of cold ari induction on the dyno, why not?

Isn't the "cold air" coming from the outside, and the "hot air" coming from the hood side? There should still be a difference, shouldn't be there? I think you may have confused the dyno "cold air" effect argument with the dyno "ram air effect" argument. Both benefit greatly when the SOTP meter is used. Can't be measured, but boy, it sure feels like it's faster. Known as the "placebo effect."

Cheers!

 

[QUOTE=EHS]Another "improvement" he touts is the "Warhead" filter -- the "highest flowing filter" and "least restrictive" on the market. You know why it flows so much? Because it also filters less.

There's always a tradeoff on filters...higher flow, less filtering capability and vice versa. This also applies to the Blackwing. Great filter, but the very nature of filters result in a balancing act between compromising flow and filtering ability to an acceptable degree. It's worked for me. I've run a Blackwing for the last four years on my C5.

Finally, regarding your comment that you can't see the benefit of cold ari induction on the dyno, why not?
Isn't the "cold air" coming from the outside, and the "hot air" coming from the hood side? There should still be a difference, shouldn't be there? I think you may have confused the dyno "cold air" effect argument with the dyno "ram air effect" argument. Both benefit greatly when the SOTP meter is used. Can't be measured, but boy, it sure feels like it's faster. Known as the "placebo effect."

Dynos are performed many times with the hood up and fans running (blowing air at the car). The difference between air inside the engine compartment and outside is minimal, at best, under these conditions. Therefore, little, if any, difference on a dyno. To my way of thinking, the real benefit of CAI systems is when you are starting from a stop or moving very slowly. For example, I'm planning on installing LT headers and figure this will probably throw a little extra heat load at the engine compartment. If I'm stopped, underhood air temp will rise fairly dramatically, fairly rapidly. That will affect performance off the line. A CAI system, such as the Vararram, provides the capability of drawing in air external to the engine compartment. The fact is, this air will be cooler than underhood air, and probably significantly so. The Blackwing is a great filter, no doubt about it. However, for the above reasons, I'm switching to a Vararam. The intake design appears sound (from a water ingestion standpoint) and I like the (relatively) cold-air draw when the car is stopped or moving slowly. Cooler air does make a difference when launching, no doubt about it.

Ed

 

I would say the Ram Air effect which is the basis of the Vararam design. You will not see that effect during static Dyno runs or slow speed driving. Above 65 mph is when the Vararam shines. Below that it is just another CAI accessory

A biased response from one who just installed a Vararam

 

A couple of observations on the above discussions. Ram effect--does not come into play until speeds exceed 130 mph. Donaldson w/o cold air--not as good as veraram at speeds under 60 mph, equal above it. Donaldson w/icebox shroud, better than veraram from any speed. Breathless, similar to veraram. These were from discussions a year ago on a C5R tour and race engineers from tier 2 companies. Another observation from that visit was there almost universal use of engine dynos for HP comparisons. Something about a chassis dyno with an inertia drum weighing about 1000 lb trying to measure a 3000 lb car. Most felt is was good for measuring devices after the cats or headers only.

 

My thoughts on this issue after attempting to recall my physics. So bear with me.....

The volume (CF/Sec) of air being applied to the devices, would equate to some induced pressure. As the Intake side is acting as a vacumn, the scenario with the greatest pressure differential should permit the most air to move from the high pressure area to the low pressure area. Based on this, the air being introduced (say at 65 mph) at the Vararam intakes should develop a higher pressure (partly induced by the Vararam design and partly by its own speed) than the enclosed are surrounding the Donaldson. This being true only if the Vette design doesn't force ar into this area by design.

OK, I'm sure I'll either be right or flame out. Be kind

 

Does anyone have an answer to this?

 

All very interesting reading.........

Now here is a fact from someone that actually had both systems on the car. I went from a Blackwing to VARARAM and gained an avg. 3mph and 4/10's. My car is/was a VERY consistent a/4 that ran 12.25's @ 113 ALL DAY LONG for over 1 year. Swap to VARARAM gave me (the only change) VERY consistent 11.81's @116 mph. These gains stayed with me for over one year, racing at different times, days, DA's blah blah blah. BTW, my consistency with both intakes was within 3/100's. Maybe the printer at the track was given a "placebo" just to pacify me for spending $300 on a VARARAM.

For all you nay-sayers that have never done it or even been to the track to test out your "theories", I suggest that you shut your mouth when comes to giving advice until you have "been there and done that".

I find it funny that the fastest N/A C5's in the country run VARARAM. But then again, what do they know, they ONLY RACE THE CARS and can choose any intake they want.

 

wow, who knew this thread would spark so much controversy??? Now I'm COMPLETELY torn! Soudns like the Vararam shouldn't make that much of a difference, but it seems to...killin' me here!

 

Why does it "sound like it shouldn't"? It only makes sense that cold fresh air makes additional H.P. The Blackwing breathes hot underhood air. The proof is in my post above. But hey, you can listen to guys that have done it, or guys that have not.

 

Look at two things:
1) The physics behind introducing cooler, therefore denser, air into an engine...more oxygen, and not rolling back timing - two benefits
2) Drive your car when it's cold outside and note how it performs vs when it's hot outside. There is a significant difference. That is all due to inlet air temperature.
The Vararam is a sound design. That's why I bought one. The Blackwing is a good design, also. The compromise is it draws underhood air. Using a cold air shroud on a Blackwing will also work except you add the hydolock concern because it draws air from the front dam area. The Vararam draws air from the foglight area. No scooping action like at the front dam area.
Ed