LS1 engine Guru's step in please
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 14,165
Likes: 9
LS1 engine Guru's step in please
A friend of mine is wanting to do some engine modifications for his LS1, particularly a cam swap. He wanted me to help him do it, I was trying to draw up a budget. Now I'm an LT1 guy and I can do the budget and parts list for a cam swap in one of those in my sleep. Unfortunately I've never really touched an LS1. I know that many aspects of the LS1 cam swap are actually easier than that of the LT1 but I did have a few questions.
1. Many gasket are supposedly re-usuable, which ones?
2. The heads have to be removed because the lifters have to come out and the heads cover the lifter valley correct?
3. Head gaskets and bolts very likely cannot be re-used. Which head gaskets are recommended?
4. How much lift can the stock LS1 valve springs handle?
Without an LS1 in front of me I can only guess that the intake, heads, water pump, and whatever the LS1 uses for a timing cover has to come off. I assume the balancer has to come off as well? What else has to come off that I'm missing?
Thanks for your input!
1. Many gasket are supposedly re-usuable, which ones?
2. The heads have to be removed because the lifters have to come out and the heads cover the lifter valley correct?
3. Head gaskets and bolts very likely cannot be re-used. Which head gaskets are recommended?
4. How much lift can the stock LS1 valve springs handle?
Without an LS1 in front of me I can only guess that the intake, heads, water pump, and whatever the LS1 uses for a timing cover has to come off. I assume the balancer has to come off as well? What else has to come off that I'm missing?
Thanks for your input!
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 14,165
Likes: 9
He's looking at the Hot Cam kit which comes with new springs. I used to work at TEA and I know how much of a pain LS1 springs are to change on the bench, let alone on the car. I'm thinking it might be easier to take the heads off anyway. What do you think?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,635
Likes: 2
From: Aloha, Oregon
Originally Posted by Nathan Plemons
He's looking at the Hot Cam kit which comes with new springs. I used to work at TEA and I know how much of a pain LS1 springs are to change on the bench, let alone on the car. I'm thinking it might be easier to take the heads off anyway. What do you think?
Use telescoping magnets to pull up the lifters in the lifter trays. The trays will hold them up, but it is safe insurance to leave the magnets on the lifters until after the cam swap.
If you take the heads off, replace the head gaskets with late model LS1 MLS gaskets such as 03 or 04 LS6 head gaskets. That is, unless, you have an old set of LS1 heads (97-98 model year) that have the dreaded divot in the deck of the head between cyl 1 & 3 (or 8 & 6, depending which side of motor). In this case you should have that divot aluminum welded then deck the head flat so you can use the MLS gaskets.
Pro
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 525
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by rwj383
No, not easier. Leave the heads on. Spring change is juice with the right equipment to air up the cyl. Several companies also make nice spring compressor tools specifically for changing springs in situ.
Use telescoping magnets to pull up the lifters in the lifter trays. The trays will hold them up, but it is safe insurance to leave the magnets on the lifters until after the cam swap.
If you take the heads off, replace the head gaskets with late model LS1 MLS gaskets such as 03 or 04 LS6 head gaskets. That is, unless, you have an old set of LS1 heads (97-98 model year) that have the dreaded divot in the deck of the head between cyl 1 & 3 (or 8 & 6, depending which side of motor). In this case you should have that divot aluminum welded then deck the head flat so you can use the MLS gaskets.
Use telescoping magnets to pull up the lifters in the lifter trays. The trays will hold them up, but it is safe insurance to leave the magnets on the lifters until after the cam swap.
If you take the heads off, replace the head gaskets with late model LS1 MLS gaskets such as 03 or 04 LS6 head gaskets. That is, unless, you have an old set of LS1 heads (97-98 model year) that have the dreaded divot in the deck of the head between cyl 1 & 3 (or 8 & 6, depending which side of motor). In this case you should have that divot aluminum welded then deck the head flat so you can use the MLS gaskets.
Pro
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 563
Likes: 1
From: Mission Viejo CA
Let me start off by saying if your going to do this don't bother with the HOT CAM, go with at least a 224-228/581-588/ Cam. Make the job worth your time. With regard to the "can you reuse gaskets", yes I have done it. Having done a few of these swaps now I only do it with new gaskets, why take a chance with used ones.
You don't have to pull the heads if your going to just do the CAM. For cam only I would only use the 5/16 metal dowels to hold the lifters back. You will need a crank bolt, (getting that on and off is the hardest part of the job) timing cover gasket, CAM seal, Dexacool, hardened push rods, and at least COMP 918 springs. Don't forget to change the oil after you do the swap.
If you pull the heads you will also need factory head gaskets (the best) head bolts, intake gaskets ($80 Ouch!) and last new header gaskets and air tube gaskets, use the factory ones. Gaskets that can be reused are the valve covers and TB gaskets with no problem. Then you will need to do a tune $350 to $500 if your going to really get what you want out of the CAM.
You don't have to pull the heads if your going to just do the CAM. For cam only I would only use the 5/16 metal dowels to hold the lifters back. You will need a crank bolt, (getting that on and off is the hardest part of the job) timing cover gasket, CAM seal, Dexacool, hardened push rods, and at least COMP 918 springs. Don't forget to change the oil after you do the swap.
If you pull the heads you will also need factory head gaskets (the best) head bolts, intake gaskets ($80 Ouch!) and last new header gaskets and air tube gaskets, use the factory ones. Gaskets that can be reused are the valve covers and TB gaskets with no problem. Then you will need to do a tune $350 to $500 if your going to really get what you want out of the CAM.
Last edited by Honez; Jul 3, 2005 at 04:41 PM.
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 14,165
Likes: 9
Thank for your installation tips but he's gonna go with the Hot Cam. That cam can easily make 400 RWHP on an LS1 with the proper heads and the driveability and fuel economy is unmatched.
"Making the job worth our time" does not mean an extremely lumpy idle, high peak numbers but no streetability.
"Making the job worth our time" does not mean an extremely lumpy idle, high peak numbers but no streetability.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,900
Likes: 2
From: Green Cove Springs FL
Corvette Stories
The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts
Top 10 Most Expensive Corvettes Ever Sold on Bring A Trailer
Brett Foote
10 Things Every Corvette Owner Needs (2026 Edition)
Michael S. Palmer
8 Most "Only Corvette Owners Understand" Quirks and Problems
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Reasons the C6 Z06 is Still A Performance Benchmark After 20 Years
Joe Kucinski
How Much Horsepower Every Corvette Engine "LOST" in 1972
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 DOs and DON'Ts for Protecting Your Convertible Top!
Michael S. Palmer
Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!
Joe Kucinski
150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter
Joe Kucinski
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time
Verdad Gallardo
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,900
Likes: 2
From: Green Cove Springs FL
Originally Posted by Nathan Plemons
Thank for your installation tips but he's gonna go with the Hot Cam. That cam can easily make 400 RWHP on an LS1 with the proper heads and the driveability and fuel economy is unmatched.
"Making the job worth our time" does not mean an extremely lumpy idle, high peak numbers but no streetability.
"Making the job worth our time" does not mean an extremely lumpy idle, high peak numbers but no streetability.
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 14,165
Likes: 9
Would it make any difference if I said he's already got the cam?
I'm not trying to rude here, but please step back for a moment. I asked very specific questions and I do certainly appreciate the people who have answered them. As for your personal thoughts on the cam choice, although you are certainly entitled to your opinions, they don't matter, that isn't what I asked for. You can ask 5 people about the best camshaft and get 20 different answers. The camshaft choice itself is in absolutely no way related to the questions that I originally asked.
Thank you again for the relevant information, it is very helpful.
I'm not trying to rude here, but please step back for a moment. I asked very specific questions and I do certainly appreciate the people who have answered them. As for your personal thoughts on the cam choice, although you are certainly entitled to your opinions, they don't matter, that isn't what I asked for. You can ask 5 people about the best camshaft and get 20 different answers. The camshaft choice itself is in absolutely no way related to the questions that I originally asked.
Thank you again for the relevant information, it is very helpful.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,900
Likes: 2
From: Green Cove Springs FL
Originally Posted by Nathan Plemons
Would it make any difference if I said he's already got the cam?
I'm not trying to rude here, but please step back for a moment. I asked very specific questions and I do certainly appreciate the people who have answered them. As for your personal thoughts on the cam choice, although you are certainly entitled to your opinions, they don't matter, that isn't what I asked for. You can ask 5 people about the best camshaft and get 20 different answers. The camshaft choice itself is in absolutely no way related to the questions that I originally asked.
Thank you again for the relevant information, it is very helpful.
Last edited by KorbenDallas; Jul 4, 2005 at 06:35 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 26,679
Likes: 17
From: This vette goes to 11 Milford MA
St. Jude Donor '03-'05
All the gaskets are reuseable except for the head gaskets themselves, but you don't need to pull the heads. If you did, I just used stock GM gaskets, a 6.0 truck set I believe. The biggest PITA is pulling the rack out if you are changing the timing set.
The head bolts are throw aways, (torque to yield). Same with the balancer bolt though a lot of poeple do re-use them. The lifters have retainers that let you pull the valvetrain, rotate the cam, and pull it out.
As far as the cam choice thing, its a pretty common scenario for someone to under cam an LS1 and then complain that it isn't enough cam so these guys were just trying to save you a step.
A cam that sounds nasty on a Gen I or II SBC is mild in an LS1.
The head bolts are throw aways, (torque to yield). Same with the balancer bolt though a lot of poeple do re-use them. The lifters have retainers that let you pull the valvetrain, rotate the cam, and pull it out.
As far as the cam choice thing, its a pretty common scenario for someone to under cam an LS1 and then complain that it isn't enough cam so these guys were just trying to save you a step.
A cam that sounds nasty on a Gen I or II SBC is mild in an LS1.
Last edited by Fastguy; Jul 4, 2005 at 09:36 PM.
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 14,165
Likes: 9
Originally Posted by FroDaddy
Your welcome for the relevant info, but you were being rude even though you made a weak effort to show you weren't trying to be. A clear and concise, "thanks for the help guys, we'll be putting in the hotcam soon", would have been more appropriate. I notice that you didn't have all of your questions answered, so I hope that you have the resources to find the answers before you tear apart the engine. You used to work for TEA, so you shouldn't have aaany problems! As for me, this was my last attempt to help out here. Good luck to you
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 14,165
Likes: 9
Originally Posted by Fastguy
As far as the cam choice thing, its a pretty common scenario for someone to under cam an LS1 and then complain that it isn't enough cam so these guys were just trying to save you a step. A cam that sounds nasty on a Gen I or II SBC is mild in an LS1.
A cam that sounds nasty on a Gen I or II SBC is mild in an LS1.Thanks again for those who have provided relevant information about the questions I have asked. The walkthrough link is very informative. I'm sure there will be some differences because it is an F-body but a lot of it will still apply.
Cruising
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
From: Hanover MA
yeah lets always shoot down the guys that are trying to help(..edited personal attack..) i hope noone ever tries to help you again nathan.
Last edited by Jesse; Jul 9, 2005 at 10:57 PM. Reason: Personal attack
Retired Admin
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 46,405
Likes: 34
Founder St. Jude Fundraiser
Originally Posted by Nathan Plemons
Love the attitude, I'm sure it'll take you far in life.
Can we get a moderator to lock this one down before the helpful post king decides to chime in again?
Can we get a moderator to lock this one down before the helpful post king decides to chime in again?
