Anyone ever drop a valve installing springs?
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2004
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From: simpson town Mo
Anyone ever drop a valve installing springs?
Im getting ready to do my first ls1 valvespring swap.Im going to use the air compressor method with the fitting in the sparkplug hole.Just wondering how many of you have done this using this method,and how easy is it to screw up and bump a valve and drop both of them due to pressure loss in the cylinder.Thanks in advance
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 1999
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From: At the beach in little Rhody
Yep, did it in my daughter's Nissan. Left the garage for a few minutes to get some tools, lost pressure when I was gone and came back to find a nice hole where the valve used to be. Hard lesson learned 
I am also getting ready to change mine. I am going to combine the TDC method and the air by putting the piston at the top and then putting the car in gear so the engine can't rotate. Then I will put on the pressure so if a valve drops I won't lose it. Other option is just to use the straight TDC methods which is easy if you have the Vinci/Crane tool and don't have to physically hold the spring compressed.
I am also getting ready to change mine. I am going to combine the TDC method and the air by putting the piston at the top and then putting the car in gear so the engine can't rotate. Then I will put on the pressure so if a valve drops I won't lose it. Other option is just to use the straight TDC methods which is easy if you have the Vinci/Crane tool and don't have to physically hold the spring compressed.
Supporting Tuner
Joined: Sep 2004
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From: ================== Houston, Texas www.englandgreen.com ================== Necessary Evil™ __________
CI 6-7-8-9-10 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14
Top Dead Center (TDC) method only works on manual cars. With an automatic, the engine will spin around when you apply air pressure to each cylinder. If you have an auto, it's a good idea to get a flexplate lock anyway.
EG
EG
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: eastern NC
Of course there is the old nylon rope method… I'm sure some of the older members have used it in their youth… before we all got air compressors!
With the cylinder off of TDC, just feed a length of good (new) nylon rope into the cylinder until it doesn't want to take any more and then gently hand crank the cylinder toward TDC until it appears to lock. This will lock your valves into positon and you can change springs without air or fear of a valve dropping. Once done, back off the crank and simply pull the rope out.
I've used this method more than a few times, but it has been a couple of years…
Good luck… GUSTO
(I know I'm gonna get hammered for this... but hey, it works!!)
With the cylinder off of TDC, just feed a length of good (new) nylon rope into the cylinder until it doesn't want to take any more and then gently hand crank the cylinder toward TDC until it appears to lock. This will lock your valves into positon and you can change springs without air or fear of a valve dropping. Once done, back off the crank and simply pull the rope out.
I've used this method more than a few times, but it has been a couple of years…
Good luck… GUSTO
(I know I'm gonna get hammered for this... but hey, it works!!)
Last edited by GUSTO14; Sep 1, 2005 at 12:27 PM.
Supporting Tuner
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From: ================== Houston, Texas www.englandgreen.com ================== Necessary Evil™ __________
CI 6-7-8-9-10 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14
It does work and is an excellent standby. 
Supporting Tuner
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From: ================== Houston, Texas www.englandgreen.com ================== Necessary Evil™ __________
CI 6-7-8-9-10 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14
Originally Posted by vettenuts
Actually, in the end, that is how I did the Nissan. TDC should work on an auto, not sure I understand. TDC doesn't use any air.
)And regarding TDC and air pressure....
Originally Posted by EnglandGreen
Top Dead Center (TDC) method only works on manual cars. With an automatic, the engine will spin around when you apply air pressure to each cylinder. If you have an auto, it's a good idea to get a flexplate lock anyway.
EG
EG
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 892
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From: Houston Texas
Ive used the air compressor many times and have never had a problem. Most compressor hold around 90-100 psi so even if your compressor was to die for some reason, you will have plenty of time to get the spring and keepers installed before losing total pressure. Also, with that much pressure against the valve face, its not going to fall with just a little bump, remember, youve got 90 pounds of pressure per square inch. After pumping up the cylinder, tap the valve with a hammer to break the keepers loose, then compress the spring and use a magnet to grab the keepers and they will come right out.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2005
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From: Bear Delaware
With an automatic put a socket with a long breaker bar on the crankshaft pulley retaining nut and it will stop the engine from rotating when you apply air pressure. Make sure you know which way it will want to rotate.
Racer
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 355
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From: Bergen County NJ
I recently replaced my springs using the air compressor method only, had no problems at all, and just for the hell of it i was curious so I lightly pushed down on one of the valves while holding it at the same time and it didn't even budge!
The air is all you will need, and I personally would never stick a peice of rope or anything for that matter inside my cylinder, just my opinion of coarse
The air is all you will need, and I personally would never stick a peice of rope or anything for that matter inside my cylinder, just my opinion of coarse
Pro
Joined: Jul 2002
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Originally Posted by EnglandGreen
Top Dead Center (TDC) method only works on manual cars. With an automatic, the engine will spin around when you apply air pressure to each cylinder. If you have an auto, it's a good idea to get a flexplate lock anyway.
EG
EG
Pro
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 525
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Originally Posted by MTurnbo
With an automatic put a socket with a long breaker bar on the crankshaft pulley retaining nut and it will stop the engine from rotating when you apply air pressure. Make sure you know which way it will want to rotate.
Slight problem called the steering rack.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2004
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From: simpson town Mo
Thanks for all of the advice guys! Im going to try the air only method.Are the keepers/retainers as easy to get off as the old 1st gen smallblocks? Sorry ive never cracked open an lsx series before.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 892
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From: Houston Texas
Originally Posted by STA-BLK
Are the keepers/retainers as easy to get off as the old 1st gen smallblocks? Sorry ive never cracked open an lsx series before.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,744
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From: FL
Cruise-In VI Veteran
Originally Posted by STA-BLK
Im getting ready to do my first ls1 valvespring swap.Im going to use the air compressor method with the fitting in the sparkplug hole.Just wondering how many of you have done this using this method,and how easy is it to screw up and bump a valve and drop both of them due to pressure loss in the cylinder.Thanks in advance
steve
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2004
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From: NE OH
St. Jude Donor '09-'10
Originally Posted by GUSTO14
Of course there is the old nylon rope method… I'm sure some of the older members have used it in their youth… before we all got air compressors!
With the cylinder off of TDC, just feed a length of good (new) nylon rope into the cylinder until it doesn't want to take any more and then gently hand crank the cylinder toward TDC until it appears to lock. This will lock your valves into positon and you can change springs without air or fear of a valve dropping. Once done, back off the crank and simply pull the rope out.
I've used this method more than a few times, but it has been a couple of years…
Good luck… GUSTO
(I know I'm gonna get hammered for this... but hey, it works!!)
With the cylinder off of TDC, just feed a length of good (new) nylon rope into the cylinder until it doesn't want to take any more and then gently hand crank the cylinder toward TDC until it appears to lock. This will lock your valves into positon and you can change springs without air or fear of a valve dropping. Once done, back off the crank and simply pull the rope out.
I've used this method more than a few times, but it has been a couple of years…
Good luck… GUSTO
(I know I'm gonna get hammered for this... but hey, it works!!)
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 6,276
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From: Farmington CT
Cruise-In VII Veteran
sta-blk, i thought you where staying away from engine internals? i used a combo of fittings(45,90deg)to hook up the air, i tapped all the retainers w/ a ball peen to 'unlock' the keepers(you can hear the diff in locked vs unlocked), and you will know very quickly when using the spring reml tool and the hissing starts 
, also it's standard to use 16 exhaust valve seals(cheaper and better), i used long needle nose to grab the seals and twist off, when seating the seals use a 3/8" drive 1/2" socket to grab the o.d. of seal and again you will hear an audilble diff when seated(i started w/ a 1/4" drive sockt that wasn't deep enough and hit the valve stem when at an angle, again hissing ); use a good magnet to grab the keepers(locks) and easy on the coffee before this task notice the taper on the locks, you can't install them upside down and if you did the thinner wall would be a sure sign something is bad
, also it's standard to use 16 exhaust valve seals(cheaper and better), i used long needle nose to grab the seals and twist off, when seating the seals use a 3/8" drive 1/2" socket to grab the o.d. of seal and again you will hear an audilble diff when seated(i started w/ a 1/4" drive sockt that wasn't deep enough and hit the valve stem when at an angle, again hissing ); use a good magnet to grab the keepers(locks) and easy on the coffee before this task notice the taper on the locks, you can't install them upside down and if you did the thinner wall would be a sure sign something is bad
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2004
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From: simpson town Mo
Originally Posted by connecticut
sta-blk, i thought you where staying away from engine internals?