Explain the difference between shorties and LTs.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 471
Likes: 0
From: Florida
Explain the difference between shorties and LTs.
So what is the benefit of LTs over shorties? I'm not interested in peak power gains but more torque and power in low to mid range.
Plus looks and sound. :o
Plus looks and sound. :o
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 471
Likes: 0
From: Florida
Originally Posted by shulamite
the headers that came on my 02 ls1 are about as effecient short tube headers as you can get. There is not much to be gained in hp or torque with shorties.
Seems to me, the negative pressure pulse of shorties would be earlier in the RPM range than LTs, improving scavenging and thus power where I want it.
I'm having trouble grasping how LTs would be different except for this.
I have a 2000 FRC.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,613
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From: Spring Tx
The only dyno tests I have seen were on the B&B shorties that were one of the first available.This was long before any tuning software was available. The write up was in Vette magazine and peak hp gains were 8hp, but torque increases averaging 15 lbs from 2000 rpm up were quite impressive.These were 1 5/8" shorties, coated pacesetter, jba,hooker all have shown gains in the 8-12 hp range on f-bodies. The article went on to say that due to time constraints the final results would most likely be better as the dynos were run immediately after installation, and the PCM had no time to make adjustments after the changes.Before everyone gets there toga in a knot, and without mentioning any brand names, I have seen claims of up to 31 hp with long tubes,x-pipe, hi-flow cats and dyno tune, but with a total expendature of of around $2500 including installation, I personally prefer my jet-hot coated pacesetters at less than $400 delivered to my door. Installation is much simpler, and can be done by a competent mechanic in less than three hours or myself and a friend on a lazy Saturday . and in inspection happy Harris county , my system will pass inspection and is legal.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,857
Likes: 2
From: pawleys island sc
Originally Posted by Alex D
I don't think any of them do much on a stock car. They really come in with heads and cam though. LT's on a stock engine will also take some torque off your curve below 2500 to 3000 rpm.
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Drifting
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Spring Tx
And I know someone who paid $99 for their vette, you see the owner died and in his will he requested the vette be sold and the proceeds be given to his secretary. His widow followed his instructions to the letter.If a dyno showed no gain it was no doubt due to a change in conditions, not that the mod showed no gain. Or,10 hp can be added or subtracted by a knowledgable dyno operator, and is done every day by the not so honest! Lets see with my 35hp vararam and 31 hp long tubes, my stock cammed C5 will run off and hide from a ZO6.WRONG! Please PM me so I can complete the arrangements on your purchase of this waterfront property I have for sale in death valley!
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,613
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From: Spring Tx
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,561
Likes: 448
From: Atlanta metro Ga.
Originally Posted by lost
And I know someone who paid $99 for their vette, you see the owner died and in his will he requested the vette be sold and the proceeds be given to his secretary. His widow followed his instructions to the letter.If a dyno showed no gain it was no doubt due to a change in conditions, not that the mod showed no gain. Or,10 hp can be added or subtracted by a knowledgable dyno operator, and is done every day by the not so honest! Lets see with my 35hp vararam and 31 hp long tubes, my stock cammed C5 will run off and hide from a ZO6.WRONG! Please PM me so I can complete the arrangements on your purchase of this waterfront property I have for sale in death valley!
Every time someone asks about shorty headers, 18 people come out of the woodwork that have no personal experience, but plenty of opinions..
Bought my B&B's slightly used, installed them myself (5x easier than a typical LT install), no O2 sensor issues, no clearance issues for a lowered car, improved / increased exhaust note, looks great under the hood, PLUS I absolutely gained a solid 10HP.
Anyone can see that compared to the B&B's (other brands are NOT created equal, i.e. BBK, etc.) stock manifolds from any year are inferior.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,613
Likes: 0
From: Spring Tx
Thank you. I get the same crap about my using the hypertech programmer, I bought it used for $200 shipped, picked up a new stat at COH for $50,and my next trip down the 1/4 my time went from 13.95 to 13.17 and mph from 102.5 to 106.8, only other change was addition of Z06 catback. Weather went from 80 degree, 100% humidity, to 65 at 60%, but I most assuredly picked up .2 from my hypertech, probably more.Would I recommend to everyone, of course not, if you live where highest octane available is 91,installing the power program might start your car to pinging and cost you power with knock retard.but since a stand alone fan controller is over $100,if you have an auto the other parameters you can change make it well worth a $200 investment, even without using the power programs.Eventually I will upgrade to Ls1edit as did the prior owner of my hyertech, but not while my car remains basically stock.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 9,369
Likes: 4
From: Zephyrhills, Florida
St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13
Originally Posted by c5mtl
does anyone think a set of z06 manifold are even worth installing on a 99 a4 c5....are the gain worth the $200 for parts and labour.?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 9,369
Likes: 4
From: Zephyrhills, Florida
St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13
Originally Posted by lost
Thank you. I get the same crap about my using the hypertech programmersince a stand alone fan controller is over $100,if you have an auto the other parameters you can change make it well worth a $200 investment, .
Racer
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 298
Likes: 12
Originally Posted by Dan_the_C5_Man
Every time someone asks about shorty headers, 18 people come out of the woodwork that have no personal experience, but plenty of opinions..
Bought my B&B's slightly used, installed them myself (5x easier than a typical LT install), no O2 sensor issues, no clearance issues for a lowered car, improved / increased exhaust note, looks great under the hood, PLUS I absolutely gained a solid 10HP.
Anyone can see that compared to the B&B's (other brands are NOT created equal, i.e. BBK, etc.) stock manifolds from any year are inferior.
I did the same thing. Got B&B's from forum member for $350. Installed myself. With Z06 intake, ported TB and Blackwing, some how traction control flips on at around 4500-5000 rpm. The tires are slipping up there. Never did that before the headers were installed. I'd say they are making horse power for me.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 32,269
Likes: 35
From: Somewhere between mild insanity and complete psychosis
Shorties are well worth it. I have the B&B shorties and could definately notice a power increase. 10 or so sounds about right. Not as much as long tubes, but then again systems like dynatech or LG usually avg. about 25 hp more on a relatively stock car (stock heads & cam). Part of that 25 is from the x-pipe and highflow cats included, so the longtubes themselves are probably worth less than 15 extra hp than shorties. Plus, I don't have to worry about heat issues, burnt wires, etc. If it's not loud enough, just get B&B Bullets like me!
Long tubes are more worth the money on heavily modded cars, H/C or forced induction. In my case, it wasn't worth the extra money, harder install, and heat issues to squeeze out another 15hp with longtubes. Plus, if I wanted to recoup some of that I could add an x-pipe and high flow cats.
Long tubes are more worth the money on heavily modded cars, H/C or forced induction. In my case, it wasn't worth the extra money, harder install, and heat issues to squeeze out another 15hp with longtubes. Plus, if I wanted to recoup some of that I could add an x-pipe and high flow cats.