Engine Size Advantage - Disadvantage
Thread Starter
Team Owner
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From: NJ
St. Jude Donor '05-'08
Engine Size Advantage - Disadvantage
Still up in the air what will replace my engine. It seems the popular choices are 383, 402, 447.
Can anyone tell me the advantages and disadvantage of each setup?
I know I want to be in the 500rwhp range, but I assume each of these can do that since my stock engine is putting out 460 rwhp...
thanks...
Can anyone tell me the advantages and disadvantage of each setup?
I know I want to be in the 500rwhp range, but I assume each of these can do that since my stock engine is putting out 460 rwhp...
thanks...
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
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From: Dallas Texas
St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'09-'10
As has been said many times, there is no substitute for cubic inches. But to me, the best alternative would be the 402, mainly from a cost standpoint, since it doesn't reguire custom sleeving or a special engine block. Should easily develop over 500hp with your current setup and, with the longer stroke, you could increase your cam duration..
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 1999
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From: Vilano Beach FL
Howdy!
I agree 100% with sxe60 - Bigger is better but when you factor in cost, the LS2 based 402's are an unbelievable value (at least until the L92 gets in the channel).
Some AFR 225's, or ETP 225's to optimize the larger CI and bigger bore - a 402 can handle a pretty stout cam and still be very streetable.
Over on LS1Tech I've seen plenty of 500rwhp+ 402's (a few in the 530-550 range mostly dependant on cam choice and tuning).
There are some reasonably decent priced larger CI options - for instance Katech has a 4.125/4.00 LS2 427 block for $3K.
Honestly the power from a 402 for the street and for track event seems perfect - and since you're building a fully forged bottom end, you can add nice N2O system for another 125-150HP for the occasionaly drag and whatnot!
I'm weighing all my options too!
Good luck -
I agree 100% with sxe60 - Bigger is better but when you factor in cost, the LS2 based 402's are an unbelievable value (at least until the L92 gets in the channel).
Some AFR 225's, or ETP 225's to optimize the larger CI and bigger bore - a 402 can handle a pretty stout cam and still be very streetable.
Over on LS1Tech I've seen plenty of 500rwhp+ 402's (a few in the 530-550 range mostly dependant on cam choice and tuning).
There are some reasonably decent priced larger CI options - for instance Katech has a 4.125/4.00 LS2 427 block for $3K.
Honestly the power from a 402 for the street and for track event seems perfect - and since you're building a fully forged bottom end, you can add nice N2O system for another 125-150HP for the occasionaly drag and whatnot!
I'm weighing all my options too!
Good luck -
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: NJ
St. Jude Donor '05-'08
Originally Posted by DT
Honestly the power from a 402 for the street and for track event seems perfect
this is my thought too. My current setup is really nice on a road course, but having some addition hp and more tq would make it even better.
Hopefully I have some time left on this engine, but when it goes I want to have a decision made.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 1999
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From: Vilano Beach FL
I can image one less shift on some spots on Sebring and having all that extra torque would be a blast!
I figure the big $ savings on a 402 (vs. 427/447) is like dozens of events, or the cost of heads, or the clutch and rear upgrade!
I just saw a pic of a guys 402 and he did some Katech valve covers and their coil relocation - had his FAST90 painted to match the VC's and wow! I was thinking FI creates some nice eye candy under the hood, but that was amazing!
I'm thinking that I'd like to do this while I have a nice solid motor to sell - heck, the money in my pocket from my LS6 just about covers the cost of the shortblock.
Your ride is setup really nice BTW - looks great and some excellent performance mods!
DT
I figure the big $ savings on a 402 (vs. 427/447) is like dozens of events, or the cost of heads, or the clutch and rear upgrade!
I just saw a pic of a guys 402 and he did some Katech valve covers and their coil relocation - had his FAST90 painted to match the VC's and wow! I was thinking FI creates some nice eye candy under the hood, but that was amazing!
I'm thinking that I'd like to do this while I have a nice solid motor to sell - heck, the money in my pocket from my LS6 just about covers the cost of the shortblock.
Your ride is setup really nice BTW - looks great and some excellent performance mods!
DT
Originally Posted by Wicked Weasel
this is my thought too. My current setup is really nice on a road course, but having some addition hp and more tq would make it even better.
Hopefully I have some time left on this engine, but when it goes I want to have a decision made.
Hopefully I have some time left on this engine, but when it goes I want to have a decision made.
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From: Lackey, my own dragstrip VA.
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Originally Posted by tlaselva
Cubes is it for me. 
Big cubes will give you a flat and predicatble torque curve which is vital on a road course.
Big cubes will give you a flat and predicatble torque curve which is vital on a road course.
My 97' loves road courses
Plus.........torque will get a big car moving and keep it moving off the turns
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 43,084
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From: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
Katech has a value 427 short block for $7 grand.
SPECS:
Part number: KAT-A4684A
displacement: 427ci, 7.0L
bore: 4.125
stroke: 4.000
rod length: 6.100
Compression height: 1.140
Dome volume: -12cc
Compression ratio: 11.0:1 (when using a 65cc chamber), 10.5:1 (when using 70cc chamber)
Crankshaft trigger: 24x
PRICE: $6950 plus shipping
PARTS USED:
Katech sleeved LS2 cylinder case
-double vacuum impregnated
-clearanced for 4.000" stroke
-decked
More info: http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=548511
SPECS:
Part number: KAT-A4684A
displacement: 427ci, 7.0L
bore: 4.125
stroke: 4.000
rod length: 6.100
Compression height: 1.140
Dome volume: -12cc
Compression ratio: 11.0:1 (when using a 65cc chamber), 10.5:1 (when using 70cc chamber)
Crankshaft trigger: 24x
PRICE: $6950 plus shipping
PARTS USED:
Katech sleeved LS2 cylinder case
-double vacuum impregnated
-clearanced for 4.000" stroke
-decked
More info: http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=548511
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 7,121
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From: Vilano Beach FL
Yeah that's the short block based on the $3K cylinder case - seems like a good deal. Really high quality components as well.
The SDPC is doing 402 shorts for $4100, and I +believe+ with "premium" rods/crank it's right at about $4600.
Heck, a 427 is getting close!
The L92 (6.2L) from what I've been reading can do 414CI (4.060x4.000) on a stock bore and would run about $500 more than a LS2.
**EDIT**
I did just read that the sleeve length will not allow a L92 to do a 4.125 stroke which would have allowed a 427 on the stock bore (and would have been SUPER cost effective). People were thinking ~$5500 for a 427 if that would have been an option (4.060 x 4.125)
I actually like the nearly "square" config on the 414CI! The heads are supposed to be LS7 style and flow really well (for super cheap) - just not a good intake option at this point - folks have been trying to get a Holden (Aussie) car intake.
The SDPC is doing 402 shorts for $4100, and I +believe+ with "premium" rods/crank it's right at about $4600.
Heck, a 427 is getting close!
The L92 (6.2L) from what I've been reading can do 414CI (4.060x4.000) on a stock bore and would run about $500 more than a LS2.
Originally Posted by AU N EGL
Katech has a value 427 short block for $7 grand.
I did just read that the sleeve length will not allow a L92 to do a 4.125 stroke which would have allowed a 427 on the stock bore (and would have been SUPER cost effective). People were thinking ~$5500 for a 427 if that would have been an option (4.060 x 4.125)
I actually like the nearly "square" config on the 414CI! The heads are supposed to be LS7 style and flow really well (for super cheap) - just not a good intake option at this point - folks have been trying to get a Holden (Aussie) car intake.
Last edited by DT; Aug 1, 2006 at 01:25 PM.
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2003
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From: Woodbridge Ontario
Originally Posted by DT
Yeah that's the short block based on the $3K cylinder case - seems like a good deal. Really high quality components as well.
The SDPC is doing 402 shorts for $4100, and I +believe+ with "premium" rods/crank it's right at about $4600.
Heck, a 427 is getting close!
The L92 (6.2L) from what I've been reading can do 414CI (4.060x4.000) on a stock bore and would run about $500 more than a LS2.
The SDPC is doing 402 shorts for $4100, and I +believe+ with "premium" rods/crank it's right at about $4600.
Heck, a 427 is getting close!
The L92 (6.2L) from what I've been reading can do 414CI (4.060x4.000) on a stock bore and would run about $500 more than a LS2.
Sounds like a good base for FI. With the bigger cubes in comparison to the 402, should help with low rpm lag.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 7,121
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From: Vilano Beach FL
Hey Tony!
Not yet, the last post I saw from Brian @ SDPC on this was July 27th (so pretty recent). Someone mentioned getting a whole L92 bottom end in, but you'd be paying for components you wouldn't use.
GMPartsDirect has part #12584727 listed for $1248.00 but as "possible backorder" - that's the bare L92 block AFAIK.
A few tuners have gotten in the LQ92 heads and have reported being pretty impressed - I think I read they're ~$280/each bare, so I would think $1200 for a set ready to go?
If the Holden intake is decent and it runs the same as a LS7 intake (which is super cheap for the flow, vs. a LSX) - we could be looking at 414CI forged motors, with a killer head design for ~$8K. SDPC has a pallete of them coming in as well (L76 I think is the model?). They're going to do a head/intake package (and the LS2 TB bolts right up nicely).
DT
Not yet, the last post I saw from Brian @ SDPC on this was July 27th (so pretty recent). Someone mentioned getting a whole L92 bottom end in, but you'd be paying for components you wouldn't use.
GMPartsDirect has part #12584727 listed for $1248.00 but as "possible backorder" - that's the bare L92 block AFAIK.
A few tuners have gotten in the LQ92 heads and have reported being pretty impressed - I think I read they're ~$280/each bare, so I would think $1200 for a set ready to go?
If the Holden intake is decent and it runs the same as a LS7 intake (which is super cheap for the flow, vs. a LSX) - we could be looking at 414CI forged motors, with a killer head design for ~$8K. SDPC has a pallete of them coming in as well (L76 I think is the model?). They're going to do a head/intake package (and the LS2 TB bolts right up nicely).
DT
Originally Posted by tlaselva
Any word on when the L92 will be available?
Sounds like a good base for FI. With the bigger cubes in comparison to the 402, should help with low rpm lag.
Sounds like a good base for FI. With the bigger cubes in comparison to the 402, should help with low rpm lag.
Supporting Tuner
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From: ================== Houston, Texas www.englandgreen.com ================== Necessary Evil™ __________
CI 6-7-8-9-10 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14
You can also do a 4.100" stroke on a LS2 (4.000" bore) for 412ci
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 7,121
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From: Vilano Beach FL
Yeah, I thought you could do the same with an L92 but I saw someone say the (OEM) sleeve length on the LS2/L92's were the same and neither could take more than a 4.000 stroke without a resleeve (?)
However, I typically know not of what I speak
I +do+ know it's pretty sweet having so many options!
Did you see GMPP also has some other LSX variant coming out? BIG displacement - available in iron initially, but Al later this year.
Plus the big Warhawk LSx blocks! 454CI, now we're talking
However, I typically know not of what I speak
I +do+ know it's pretty sweet having so many options!
Did you see GMPP also has some other LSX variant coming out? BIG displacement - available in iron initially, but Al later this year.
Plus the big Warhawk LSx blocks! 454CI, now we're talking
Originally Posted by EnglandGreen
You can also do a 4.100" stroke on a LS2 (4.000" bore) for 412ci
Supporting Tuner
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From: ================== Houston, Texas www.englandgreen.com ================== Necessary Evil™ __________
CI 6-7-8-9-10 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14
Warhawk can go to 502ci with the new higher deck blocks 
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 1999
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From: Vilano Beach FL
Hahaha! I'm vicariously living through his buildup, so I'm ENCOURAGING him to get one
At least then his MOTOR will be as big as his SUB WOOFER!
DT
At least then his MOTOR will be as big as his SUB WOOFER!
DT
Originally Posted by AU N EGL
Dont get EG started on the Warhawk. He will drool all over the place. . .
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 1999
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From: Vilano Beach FL
Oh man, that has a sweet sound to it - 8.2L's baby!
I understand they're only supposed to be ~40-80 lbs weight difference vs. a GM LSx motor too (depending on specific model).
I understand they're only supposed to be ~40-80 lbs weight difference vs. a GM LSx motor too (depending on specific model).
Originally Posted by EnglandGreen
Warhawk can go to 502ci with the new higher deck blocks
Supporting Tuner
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From: ================== Houston, Texas www.englandgreen.com ================== Necessary Evil™ __________
CI 6-7-8-9-10 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14
I can't afford it on this go around 
But maybe in the future....
But maybe in the future....
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 43,084
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From: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
Originally Posted by DT
Oh great another drooler. Well here drool some more . .
Source: http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=548277
Supporting Tuner
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Posts: 51,896
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From: ================== Houston, Texas www.englandgreen.com ================== Necessary Evil™ __________
CI 6-7-8-9-10 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14
That is just soooooo wrong....
must... resist....
must... pay... mortgage....
must... resist....
must... resist....
must... pay... mortgage....
must... resist....