I have a 2001 Coupe with a 6 speed. I am currently having an issue with it starting.

The car has had trouble starting off and on most of the month. 9 out of 10 times there were no problems. The 1 out of 10 when I had a problem it was easliy solved by removing the key, moving around the shifter and pressing clutch in and out , putting the key back in and then it would start.
This week however it has had this problem 5 times. Only time it does it is after it has been driven. If the car has been sitting for an hour or more no problem. This week 4 out of the 5 times were fixed by jiggling stuff. The 5th time only was fixed by pushing the car in reverse and popping the clutch and it started. I brought the car home and cut it off. Tried starting it 5 times, and all 5 times it cranked right up. What gives?

Thinks I have checked
- No Codes set (Except for traction control/abs)
- No corroision on battery cables, ground below battery looks clean as well.
- Battery voltage is correct
Checked when key is put in that you can hear the click from passenger side that key is read

When the starting problem occurs, I turn the key, I can hear the fuel pump turn on, ,dash lights up, click is heard on passenger side, then turn to start, lights go dim and no sounds, let go of key and lights are bright again.


Any clues what could cause the intermitting problem?

 

You might want to give a serious look at the clutch pedal switch and/or the TDR (Theft Deterrent Relay) located on the toe-board fuse panel on the pass. side. If I had to pick the most likely candidate for this, it would probably be the relay. When you push down on the clutch pedal, that switch completes a circuit that sends current on to the TDR, which in turn activates the circuit that allows the starter to engage.
HTH,
Robert

 

Thanks for the suggestion, I have located the clutch pedal switch but can not find the Theft relay. Are they the same thing?

I tried all night to get the problem to occur again and it started up perfect each time. I will have to wait for it to not start again in order to test, but want to be ready and know where to look. In the meantime I bought the clutch pedal switch for a 6 bucks and will carry it with me in case it is the problem.

In the service manual it says to check the relay, but does not show you where it is, only where the clutch pedal switch is. The manual instructions are below.

Disconnect the Theft Deterrent relay.
Connect a test light from the supply voltage circuit of the theft deterrent relay coil circuit to ground.
With the transmission in park, or clutch pedal depressed, turn the ignition switch to the start position.
Does the test light illuminate?

5
Connect a test light from the supply voltage circuit of the Theft Deterrent relay coil circuit to the control circuit of the Theft Deterrent relay coil circuit.
With the transmission in park, or clutch pedal depressed, turn the ignition switch to the start position.
Does the test light illuminate?

6
Turn OFF the ignition.
Disconnect the Park Neutral Position (PNP) switch or Clutch Pedal Position switch.
Turn ON the ignition, with the Engine OFF.
Connect a 10 amp fused jumper between the Theft Deterrent relay coil control circuits of the PNP switch or Clutch Pedal Position switch.
With the transmission in park, or clutch pedal depressed, turn the ignition switch to the start position.
Does the test lamp illuminate?

 

Oops did not read the last part where you told me that the TDR was located on fuse panel on passenger sided. I will check it also.
Thanks

 

Well my car finally had this problem again. The clutch switch checked out ok. Does anyone know how to change out the Theft Relay? I found it in the passenger floorboard. I pulled the green tab out so that the wires can separate, but it is stuck. Also is this a plug and play item, or do the wires need to spliced to fix? Pictures would be much appreaciated if you have them.

 

As far as I know, all the relays in our cars are PnPs. I do know that some are tight and a real bear to pull out of their repective sockets though.

 

You can try replacing your TD relay, but from all your symptoms, I'm thinking your starter is going bad.

The "only happens when warm" symptom is a big clue, and usually indicative of the starter failing.

You should be able to hear the TD relay click during an attempted start. Next time it happens, do this...Put car in neutral, and set park brake. Press clutch in, and turn key to start. If nothing happens, leave key turned to start, release clutch, and press clutch in again a few times. Each time you release the clutch, you should hear a click from the pass. footwell area. That will be the TD relay pulling in and out (what it should do). Doing this this not only proves out your clutch switch, but it also confirms the TD relay is working, and that everything else upstream of it is doing what it should. If you don't hear it clicking, then it could be the relay, or possibly the ignition switch.

If you can get to the relay with a voltmeter when the no-start problem is happening, connect one lead to a good ground, and probe the purple wire during an attempted start. Have someone press the clutch and turn key while you watch the voltage on that purple wire. It should be 0v when key is not turned, and go to 12v when key is turned to start.

If you get 12v on that wire during an attempted start, it's either your starter/solenoid, or a bad/loose connection on it. That purple wire is a direct run to the starter solenoid, and when that wire gets 12v, your starter should energize.

FWIW, I have an 01 and replaced the starter in it last year, it failed with identical symptoms. Kinda why I remember all this.

 

The Theft Deterrant relay is a removable relay. I yanked mine off the fire wall and then removed it from the connector. Mine was FULL OF WATER and the relay arm corroded off the relay!

The relay is an easy thing to change:



I removed the plastic cover on my relay to inspect the inside and electrical contacts. WARNING If you manually close the contacts, the starter will turn the engine and if the car is in gear it will move!!!!



BC

 

I just went through a three week stint of the same issues then on Wed my car wouldn't start at all. My lights, radio, horn and gauges worked fine plus my voltage guage was well within norms so I thought I had juice but it turned out that my battery was going bad. Once I put in a new battery the car starts right up every time. I hope the resolution to your problem is as cheap and easy as mine was.

 

When the problem occurs, I can always hear clicking in the passenger floorboard. I guess that would rule out the relay?
The problem is so hard to test, b/c it only happens when I don't want it to where I can't test it. Then as soon as I get it cranked and home, it works perfect.
Is there a way to test a starter when it is not giving you a problem?

 

Probably, but if you had a corrosion in the relay issue like Bill Curlee above did, the relay may still actuate, but poor contacts may prevent it from transferring current to the (purple) solenoid wire.
Believe me, I know how frustrating it is. I lived with the intermittant problem for a few weeks until finally one day it just wouldn't work at all. It was at that point I was finally able to test everything and get to the source of the problem.

Without any visual clues, it is usually about impossible to troubleshoot intermittant electrical problems when everything is working properly. Chances are your starter would work fine on the test bench.


I guess one thing you could do now, is get yourself a 12v light bulb pigtail. Any type will do, like a taillight socket or something. Connect/splice one lead of the socket to that purple wire coming off the relay, and connect the other lead of the socket to a good ground. Temporarily mount the light on the dash or somewhere you can easily see it from the driver's seat. It should light up every time you start the car.
The next time the problem occurs, and the car doesn't turn over, if that light is lit...but car is not cranking, then the problem is definitely your starter.

 

Yet just another one of the many benefits of water getting into that area eh, Bill? I know you have been through hell and back over that in the past.
corvettedoug: If you should wind up checking or suspecting the starter itself, as a final step before removal, double check the positive battery cable connection on the starter as well as the other smaller wires that attach to the solenoid for tightness too. Of course you'll definitely want to disconnect your battery before putting a wrench or socket on those fasteners.
HTH,
Robert

 

My car finally had the problem again. It does seem to happen only after a long drive and sitting in traffic when the car is at operating temp.

I was able to remove the relay and attempt to probe the purple wire. I don't believe I found a good ground. My test light ground cord is not long, so I tried to ground it on something in the floorboard. I tried the bolt sticking out on top of the fuse box. Would this be a good ground?
I had my wife sit in the drive seat and try to start the car. The purple wire did not make my light go on in the testlight. But with the relay disconnected, I still heard a clicking noise in the floorboard.

If the light comes on when connected to purple wire, how does that prove the relay is bad? I am not an electrical genius and and trying to learn, please forgive me if this is a stupid question.

I also have a multimeter if there is anyway that I could test the relay when it is off the car.

 

I recall it being somewhat tough to find a good ground point around that area. The metal BCM case is NOT ground if I recall. I think I used one of the seat mounting bolts.

You can test your ground point with the test lamp by probing the red wire on that same relay. It is 12v all the time, straight from the battery. Keep your test light probe on that red wire connection and move your ground clip until it lights...then you know you've found a ground point. Then probe the purple wire, and try to start.

What happens when you start the car, that relay closes a contact between the red and purple wire, sending the power through the purple wire to the starter solenoid.

You don't want to disconnect the relay to test the purple wire. Leave the relay plugged in as normal, you can probe the wire where it connects to the backside of the relay base as you see it. The purpose of testing this wire is that, if the relay (and everything before it) is doing what it should, that purple wire will have 12v when attempting to crank.

If you get 12v when testing the purple wire, it means your relay is good. It also means your starter is not.

If you don't get 12v on that wire during an attempted crank, that means the problem is possibly the relay or something upstream of it such as the ign switch.

 

Thanks for clarifying how to test the relay. I was able to find a ground on the seat track and my light came on when I touched the orange wire. I had my wife turn the key with the test light touching the purple wire, the light came on and so did the car! I guess I will have to wait until next time it does not work to test. At least this time I will know exactly how to test it right away.

 

Ive had / have the same problem, I giggled and wiggied a couple things and the car would start.

I think that my connection to the clutch pedal switch gets a little loose. I drove my car 5 hours yesterday through skyline drive and shut my car off and on about 20 times throughout the day. Im happy to report, it started everytime. The first time it happened I was a little concerned. I heard the click somewhere on the passenger side, and my battery is 2 months old. With the car out of gear, I turned the car to start and pushed the clutch pedal in several times, and on one of the pushs, it started. I manually pushed the switch in with my finger and started the car several times, but the connection looked a little loose. First I thought it was the switch, but now im guessing its just a loose connection going to the switch. The next time it does it, Ill manually push the connection to the switch and see if it's the connection not the switch or the auto theft device...Winter project if it acts up

 

The clutch switch is one of the first things to check on a no-crank issue because it's very simple and easy to verify.

Placing a jumper wire between the yellow and purple wires on the switch will completely bypass it, and rule it out as a possible cause. (or, prove it was the cause).

 

Are the wires going to the clutch switch pos. or neg? i went to go to the dyno yesterday and guess wat my car wouldnt start. i pulled the starter and tested it it was fine but i have on power to the purple wire at the starter.

 

I have seen numerous problems with the CLUTCH SAFETY SWITCH and the THEFT DETERRENT RELAY. Unless you replace each component or physically remove it and examine them for defective components, your wasting your time. The last safety switch I replaced failed intermittently and when I opened it up, it was full of nasty green corrosion. You can remove the plastic cover on the THEFT DETERRENT RELAY (it comes off easily and does not hurt the relay) and examine the inside of the relay. You can watch the relay operate. Be careful NOT to manually close the contacts with the car in gear!! The engine will turn over and move the car!!!!!!!!

The next time it wont start, "KEEP THE KEY IN THE START POSITION" and while you holding it there, let up on the clutch just enough to dis-engage the safety switch and then fully depress it again. Do that a bunch of times. If the safety switch is bad, cycling it open and closed will allow it to make contact and the car will start.

Before you get too involved in the switches and relays, I would jack up the car and examine the wires on the solenoid and starter! They have been known to come loose or get corroded. If you want to know if the starter is bad internally, the next time it fails to start, you can also whack (mechanically agitate) the starter with a mallet,hammer, crescent wrench etc etc while someone holds the key in the start position and if it starts, you have an internal starter issue (most likely bad brushes or a bad solenoid). You can do this from the top but there is very little room. If you have headers, FORGETABOUTIT!

BC

 

Joe

The wires in that circuit are all 12 VDC!

BC