Mechanical Engineering Student needs some help... LS1 Specs
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 808
Likes: 0
From: San Diego CA
St. Jude Donor '05
Mechanical Engineering Student needs some help... LS1 Specs
Hey-
I'm a ME student at SDSU and am working on a design project. My group has to "reverse engineer" an crankshaft from an car and do a lifetime fatigue analysis on it. Most of the project is failry straightforward... but I do need some information that is beyond what is usually published online or in magazines.
I was hoping that someone here would have the info we need, or could direct me to somewhere that may have it.
Thanks in advance.
I'm a ME student at SDSU and am working on a design project. My group has to "reverse engineer" an crankshaft from an car and do a lifetime fatigue analysis on it. Most of the project is failry straightforward... but I do need some information that is beyond what is usually published online or in magazines.
I was hoping that someone here would have the info we need, or could direct me to somewhere that may have it.
Thanks in advance.
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,933
Likes: 30
From: San Rafael CA
Depends on what you're looking for in the way of crankshaft data. The service manuals list things such as the main journal diameter. It also lists acceptable limits such as the main journal diameter service limit (the smallest diameter it can be).
Obviously these are dimensions a mechanic would be checking when servicing the crank. It doesn't list things like the weight of the crankshaft or external dimensions since those aren't something that would concern a mechanic.
Maybe you could give us a better idea of what you're looking for ??
HTH
Obviously these are dimensions a mechanic would be checking when servicing the crank. It doesn't list things like the weight of the crankshaft or external dimensions since those aren't something that would concern a mechanic.
Maybe you could give us a better idea of what you're looking for ??
HTH
Instructor
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 228
Likes: 0
From: Washington IL
St. Jude Donor '07
Like said above, it depends on what you're looking for and what the goal of the project is. Either way, I don't see any way around probably having to measure something to get some dimensions. You're NEVER going to find engineering drawings for any production cranks. If you really need to be accurate, you're going to have to find out where the bearing lube holes are drilled as well as many other things.
Just another suggestiong, unless the project says you HAVE to do a V8, why not do a 4 cylinder? Without clearly thinking about the problem, it would seem like it may make thing a little more simple?
Good luck!
Just another suggestiong, unless the project says you HAVE to do a V8, why not do a 4 cylinder? Without clearly thinking about the problem, it would seem like it may make thing a little more simple?
Good luck!
Pro
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 706
Likes: 1
From: Western Canada
Lots of info re weights, etc. at:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=984927
but could not find crankshaft weight there but did not go to references given.
You might try a search that would include the archives.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=984927
but could not find crankshaft weight there but did not go to references given.
You might try a search that would include the archives.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 22,025
Likes: 192
From: At the beach in little Rhody
What type of information? I would think you would be looking for things not in the manual, like fillet diameters and cross sections so you can establish the stress fields. Might see if a sponsor in your area has one they have in the trash that could be used.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,498
Likes: 4
From: Brentwood TN
You will not only need bearing journal diameter, you need to know the alloy that was used to make the crank, how it was heat treated and more. Your professor has sandbagged you. Reverse engineering an engine crankshaft, whether 4, 6, or 8 cylinder, is going to keep you busy for a LONG time just getting dimensional and metallurgical specs on the piece. When you finall get all that info, THEN you can begin reverse engineering it.
Charlie
Charlie
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 808
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From: San Diego CA
St. Jude Donor '05
Originally Posted by cruisemon
You will not only need bearing journal diameter, you need to know the alloy that was used to make the crank, how it was heat treated and more. Your professor has sandbagged you. Reverse engineering an engine crankshaft, whether 4, 6, or 8 cylinder, is going to keep you busy for a LONG time just getting dimensional and metallurgical specs on the piece. When you finall get all that info, THEN you can begin reverse engineering it.
Charlie
Charlie
Yes.. he did sandbag us.
We can make some "reasonable asumptions" about what the crankshaft is made out of. The project is more to apply specific analytical techniques to an already proven design.
So.. what I need:
Crankshaft overall length
Main journal Diameter and length
Rod journal length and diameter
crank through...
if anyone happens to know the cylinder pressure devloped during a power stroke, that would be extra sweet as well.
thanks!
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,101
Likes: 0
From: NoVA
Originally Posted by ELTGuy_C5
Hey-
I'm a ME student at SDSU and am working on a design project. My group has to "reverse engineer" an crankshaft from an car and do a lifetime fatigue analysis on it. Most of the project is failry straightforward... but I do need some information that is beyond what is usually published online or in magazines.
I was hoping that someone here would have the info we need, or could direct me to somewhere that may have it.
Thanks in advance.
I'm a ME student at SDSU and am working on a design project. My group has to "reverse engineer" an crankshaft from an car and do a lifetime fatigue analysis on it. Most of the project is failry straightforward... but I do need some information that is beyond what is usually published online or in magazines.
I was hoping that someone here would have the info we need, or could direct me to somewhere that may have it.
Thanks in advance.
$200
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2003-...spagenameZWD1V
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Former Vendor
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,749
Likes: 4
From: Valencia Ca
Originally Posted by ELTGuy_C5
Yes.. he did sandbag us.
We can make some "reasonable asumptions" about what the crankshaft is made out of. The project is more to apply specific analytical techniques to an already proven design.
So.. what I need:
Crankshaft overall length
Main journal Diameter and length
Rod journal length and diameter
crank through...
if anyone happens to know the cylinder pressure devloped during a power stroke, that would be extra sweet as well.
thanks!
We can make some "reasonable asumptions" about what the crankshaft is made out of. The project is more to apply specific analytical techniques to an already proven design.
So.. what I need:
Crankshaft overall length
Main journal Diameter and length
Rod journal length and diameter
crank through...
if anyone happens to know the cylinder pressure devloped during a power stroke, that would be extra sweet as well.
thanks!
Max cylinder pressure = 1880 PSI
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,933
Likes: 30
From: San Rafael CA
For the LS1 engine:
Main Journal Diameter ---- > 2.558 - 2.559 inches (64.993 - 65.007 mm) Minimum size (service limit) 2.558 inches
Con rod journal Diameter ---- > 2.0991 - 2.0999 inches (53.318 - 53.338 mm) Minimum size (service limit) 2.0987 inches (53.308 mm)
Service Manual does not list other dimensions.
Main Journal Diameter ---- > 2.558 - 2.559 inches (64.993 - 65.007 mm) Minimum size (service limit) 2.558 inches
Con rod journal Diameter ---- > 2.0991 - 2.0999 inches (53.318 - 53.338 mm) Minimum size (service limit) 2.0987 inches (53.308 mm)
Service Manual does not list other dimensions.
Instructor
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 228
Likes: 0
From: Washington IL
St. Jude Donor '07
Originally Posted by ELTGuy_C5if
anyone happens to know the cylinder pressure devloped during a power stroke, that would be extra sweet as well.
anyone happens to know the cylinder pressure devloped during a power stroke, that would be extra sweet as well.
You can calculate cylinder pressures easily using simple thermo equations.... you know power, cylinder volume, CR. Can find the max temp using the power. I'd imagine you're prof is expecting you to show how you found the pressure, and I doubt he'd accept "CorvetteForum" (even though I've never got bad info here)
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,498
Likes: 4
From: Brentwood TN
Originally Posted by Illini82
You can calculate cylinder pressures easily using simple thermo equations.... you know power, cylinder volume, CR. Can find the max temp using the power. I'd imagine you're prof is expecting you to show how you found the pressure, and I doubt he'd accept "CorvetteForum" (even though I've never got bad info here)
Is there any chance there is anyone reading this board that is in engineering with an auto maker? I had a buddy at Chevrolet engineering but he has retired (he's the one that worked on development of the LS7 and told me the engine could make 700 hp normally aspirated - couldn't drive it on the street or get it to idle below about 1200 rpm, and the cam didn't clean up until about 3000 rpm but it makes a LOT of horsepower above 6000 rpm and had practically a flat torque curve from just over 3000 rpm up to about). 6000)
Charlie
Last edited by cruisemon; Nov 20, 2006 at 03:18 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 23,283
Likes: 906
From: Lake Elsinore, CA
Here's a table from my website detailing the engine mechanical specs for a 2002 LS1. This is directly out of the service manual.
LS1 Engine Mechanical Specs
LS1 Engine Mechanical Specs
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 808
Likes: 0
From: San Diego CA
St. Jude Donor '05
Thanks for all the replies. I've got most of the data I need now. I spoke with the prof and we're to assume Ideal Gas Isentropic behavior for cylinder pressure.
All I need now is main and rod bearing cap widths and I should be good to go!
All I need now is main and rod bearing cap widths and I should be good to go!
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,498
Likes: 4
From: Brentwood TN
Originally Posted by ELTGuy_C5
Thanks for all the replies. I've got most of the data I need now. I spoke with the prof and we're to assume Ideal Gas Isentropic behavior for cylinder pressure.
All I need now is main and rod bearing cap widths and I should be good to go!
All I need now is main and rod bearing cap widths and I should be good to go!
Charlie
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 808
Likes: 0
From: San Diego CA
St. Jude Donor '05
Originally Posted by cruisemon
Isentropic and ideal gas and optimum ignition timing simplify things a bunch
Charlie
Charlie
Yes it does. The point of the project isn't to simulate an engine, but to apply the theories of internal & surface fatigue analysis and bearing design to real world problems.
Out of all the classes I've taken so far, this and my CAD classes have been the most informative.
Instructor
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 228
Likes: 0
From: Washington IL
St. Jude Donor '07
Originally Posted by ELTGuy_C5
Out of all the classes I've taken so far, this and my CAD classes have been the most informative.
Out of all the classes I've taken so far, this and my CAD classes have been the most informative.
I just finished grad school this summer and felt like I had forgot everything I learned in the 5 yrs I was in school, but you'll be suprised how much you actually remember when you need to. Just remembering the basics will be enough to get you by, and then when you need to dig deeper you'll find yourself saying "oh yea" a whole bunch when you look things up
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 11,556
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From: SoCal Twin Turbo, Any Questions?
St. Jude Donor '06-'07
Im working on a similar project and we have to do bolts that secure a gimbal to a floater deck. BS i want to study camshafts Looks like you got your info good, wishi could be of some help
Looks like you got your info good, wishi could be of some help
Racer
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 266
Likes: 2
From: Alliston Ontario
You have no idea how much that terrifies me. Im in my second year Automotive Engineering at UOIT in Canada, and I keep thinking that I will never remember all tis stuff once Im out in the real world. Thanks for making me feel like Im not the only one.
Originally Posted by Illini82
I just finished grad school this summer and felt like I had forgot everything I learned in the 5 yrs I was in school, but you'll be suprised how much you actually remember when you need to. Just remembering the basics will be enough to get you by, and then when you need to dig deeper you'll find yourself saying "oh yea" a whole bunch when you look things up