Hello All,

I've posted most or all of this in my original thread http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1851426

but the new symptoms did not get any replies so opening this new thread in hopes of advice from the forum experts.

I'm getting constant P0410 (AIR) and intermittant P0332 (Knock sensor). Vette is at the shop now - again. BUT since they are constantly telling me these problems have nothing to do with the work they did on the head gaskets, I don't have much trust in them. BUT since I am in Germany and this is a foreign car, my choices are limited and I want them to finish what they started, if possible. This is their last chance.

RECAP

"11/14/07
head gaskets were replaced. Once they were done they started her up and heard clacking noise. One of the lifters was bad. Took it apart again and replaced the lifters on the driver's side bank. Finally got the car last night. Drove it home - maybe 5 miles - and the check engine light came on with code P0410. Took it back and they checked it with the Tech2 and reset the codes. They made sure to say they never touched the AIR pump during any of the work they did. Check engine came back on again a little while ago."

Paying in Euro is killing me... Euro3300 = almost $5000. Exchange rate is the lowest in history right now. (In addition to the gaskets I had them change the oil, clutch fluid and brake fluid.) Luckily I am here with the US military and I don't have to pay the 19% VAT.

As a RF Comms tech, I understand troubleshooting. Sometimes sh*t happens and no one is to blame. But also, when I T/S something and then a second or third problem occurs, the first thought in my head is "what did I do to cause that?" not "that can't be my fault".

I have shop manuals and understand the basic systems in question but some expert advice would be GREATLY appreciated. I'm so mad right now I might just let them do testing for a couple days and then have someone else fix it. There is one other shop I use but it's farther away and I didn't want to put him in the middle of this mess unless I had to.

THANKS for reading this far!

Angela

 

Angela,

To change the head gaskets, they don't need to touch the AIR pump, but both check valves in the system come off when the work is done. The driver's side check valve is very visible and is attached to the exhaust manifold on the driver's side. The passenger side is actually behind the driver's side head and out of view. This code usually indicates a problem with the AIR pump itself since in order to set both banks have to "not respond" during the test. However, if they mess up the piping or anything else that would inhibit air injection into the exhaust the same code would set. Have they done the simple things like check fuses, etc. to ensure the pump is running? You can also listen for the pump on cold start, it is right under the driver's headlight.

On the knock sensor, did they wash the motor? It is also possible if they weren't careful they could have crushed the wire under the intake when they re-installed. If you look at the driver's side valve cover, with the fuel rail cover removed, at the back of the motor on top of the intake there is a black bracket that should be bolted down with the intake bolts. On this bracket, there should be a connector clipped in place. Is it there? Is it connected? This is the knock sensor connection, verify it is connected. Is the lifter issue fixed? Are there any other weird noises from the motor?

 

Vettenuts,

sorry - in my haste to post I left out that I verfied the AIR pump was turning on by listening for it under the headlight first thing in the morning. Then the shop turned it on and off and activated the relay with the tech2.

Knock sensor - they did not wash it that I am aware and I drive down a dirt road every day to get to work so it's a bit of a mess. I would notice if it was clean . They have the car right now so I can't check the sensor connection but will do as soon as I get the chance. I was reading in my manual about this - this code will set if the vibration frequency goes under or over the range learned by the PCM. Maybe with the new stuff it's "quieter"? Or it could be the other way too but would a "re-learn" be in order?

All lifters on the driver's side were replaced and I'm not hearing anything unusual since.


Thanks much,
Angela

 

In regards to the knock sensor it is very easy to pinch the knock sensor wires when installing the intake manifold if you dont route them where theyre supposed to go.

 

This is why I have a problem myself with some dealerships. They are in business to make money, not fix cars. I gets me going when these guys can't find a problem related to work they did and blame it on the owner or some other 'unrelated' issue. I'm sure you being a woman is contributing to their misinformation.
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I agree with the above posters in their assesment. They would most certainly have touched the A.I.R. in order to remove the head. So that is lie number 1. The knock sensors would not have to have been removed to change the head, they are in the lifter valley cover, but the connections route out the back of the intake manifold UNDER the coolant crossover pipes if you have a 2000 or earlier. They could still get pinched if not routed properly in later year cars. They might have taken the harness out when removing the head. The connectors to the knock sensors are kind of strange in that you have to squeeze them properly to get them off. They could have damaged a connector, either the male harness or female knock sensor when that happened. They also could have damaged the knock sensor plug or jack behind the manifold when replugging them, causing an intermittent connection putting noise on the line.
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As vettenuts suggested, look to see if it is there and plugged in. And again, it's something THEY did or didn't do. Knock sensors do go bad, but it would seem very coincidental that they went bad while changing a head.

 

Figures since I waited so long to post this it would get cleared up the same day. They called 2 hours ago to say I could pick it up - it was fixed. The hose at the pump end was off or loose.

They were very apologetic and looked embarrassed - saying that even though they were never near the pump end, the had the other end off and that hose doesn't have much wiggle room and messing with one end must have affected the other.

They also said something about some reprogramming and fuel to air ratio(?) and that the knock sensor problem should be gone too.

SO - I didn't have to pay for today and left with a 2003 Cotes Du Rhone - good year, and apologies. I feel pretty good.

I still plan to check the knock sensor stuff tomorrow in the daylight, just to be sure.

My being a woman might have played a part but I'm pretty good about letting them know I'm no dummy, so who knows. I'm sure they hate to hear "but I read on the Internet (read CF)..." but I use that a lot. I hadn't been back to this place in a while because they wouldn't let me watch them work at all. I mentioned that that was why I was going to other guy and they made an effort to show me what they were doing - called when the heads were apart so I could come look, showed me how they found the bad lifter, showed me other cars they were working on, told me about and showed me bad bearings from 2(!) NEW C6 Z06s.

I'm really glad they came through. I never thought they were bad people and it bummed me out the way I was being treated. It's just a husband and wife and couple mechanics but they are a certified dealer now.

Thanks for all the replies and I'll let you know if I find anything with KS.


Angela

 

Congrats on the fix. Thanks for letting us know it went well.

 

Angela

First off,,,THANKS FOR SERVING! Second off, I have a soft spot for overseas military personnel who own ANY Corvette and try to operate it and maintain it with the cost of living there!!

If you ever need anything, just post or PM me!

Being a retired Veteran, I know how tough things can be with car repairs especially in a foreign country! Enjoy you car and time in Germany! Give that Autobahn hell at least ONCE for me!! I got to be on it only once (pasenger in a damn buss! ) and saw a lot of cool cars go zipping by at tripple digit speeds!

Glad you are able to stand up for your rights and you know something about your car AND THEY GOT THINGS STRAIGHTENED OUT!

Bill Curlee

 

Thanks Bill!

that is kind of you! Just for the record, I am currently a Navy contractor since completing my 6 year enlistment in 1995. I don't like to take any credit for being active duty when I am not.

I should be leaving here sometime next year as the base closes and I will miss driving on the autobahn. AHH - a bus on the autobahn is the worst - well tractor trailers are worse at 80 kph but 100 kph is just as bad.

I took a bus from Garmisch to Venice once... it was agony.

and thanks for all you do for the forum.

Angela

 

Ex active duty and overseas,,,,Your still good in my book!

Hope your time there is TROUBLE FREE!

BC