View Poll Results: Should I change my stock heads to Patriot stage 2 ?
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 29. You may not vote on this poll
Patriot Performance stage 2 heads
Thread Starter
MFIC
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,997
Likes: 14
From: Charlotte, North Carolina
Patriot Performance stage 2 heads
I have a stock 99 with outside bolt on only I was looking at the patriot performance heads stage 2 part number 2009, I can get them pretty cheap what do you guys think ?
I also have 1.8 crane rockers to install with them.
I do not want to change the cam.
I also have 1.8 crane rockers to install with them.
I do not want to change the cam.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 43,084
Likes: 33
From: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
the 241 heads on you 99 are OK but the patriot would be much better.
Now would also be a good time to install a new cam, timing chain and under drive pulley.
Good Luck on your project
Now would also be a good time to install a new cam, timing chain and under drive pulley.
Good Luck on your project
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 43,084
Likes: 33
From: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,145
Likes: 1
From: Bradenton FLORIDA
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 22,025
Likes: 192
From: At the beach in little Rhody
With no other options, I voted "No". Here is my reasoning:
There are several cases of installation of AFR heads with the stock cam that have produced over 40 hp at the wheels. If you optimize compression and tighten quench with a thinner gaskets, the throttle response and the power will be excellent. Vinci has a test on his web site that was documented in the one of the magazines with just a head swap (at least initially). There are some others also, try google, they will pop up. With the stock cam, and its limited RPM range, you need a set of heads that will take maximum advantage of it and small port AFR's are the way to go in my opinion.
There are several cases of installation of AFR heads with the stock cam that have produced over 40 hp at the wheels. If you optimize compression and tighten quench with a thinner gaskets, the throttle response and the power will be excellent. Vinci has a test on his web site that was documented in the one of the magazines with just a head swap (at least initially). There are some others also, try google, they will pop up. With the stock cam, and its limited RPM range, you need a set of heads that will take maximum advantage of it and small port AFR's are the way to go in my opinion.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,458
Likes: 105
From: Northville Michigan
My vote was NO.
I would recommend that you look at Trick Flow's 215 cc head instead. It has better flow numbers and will generally develop more power.
As others has already noted, now would be the time to install a good hydraulic camshaft, Crane and others could recommend one for your use.
I would also install a set of Smith Brothers 3/8 inch x 0.120 inch wall, oil flow restricting chrome-moly pushriods and a Katech timing chain and gear set.
I would not recommend an underdrive crank pulley. (Sorry guys, I have too many years as an automotive engineer looking at cooling, steering response, and electrical demand data to buy into underdrive.)
Good luck with your decision.
I would recommend that you look at Trick Flow's 215 cc head instead. It has better flow numbers and will generally develop more power.
As others has already noted, now would be the time to install a good hydraulic camshaft, Crane and others could recommend one for your use.
I would also install a set of Smith Brothers 3/8 inch x 0.120 inch wall, oil flow restricting chrome-moly pushriods and a Katech timing chain and gear set.
I would not recommend an underdrive crank pulley. (Sorry guys, I have too many years as an automotive engineer looking at cooling, steering response, and electrical demand data to buy into underdrive.)
Good luck with your decision.
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,205
Likes: 2
From: Chicago-NW Burbs Illinois
You can do cam only but to do heads only is kind of backwards if you ask me. Patriots are a good budget head though.
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Race Director
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 16,477
Likes: 26
From: Gone
CI 6-7-8-9-10 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '03
I'll toss in a yes vote.
Let's face it, the $1000 Patriots will add some hp, and if they are the small chamber versions, will give a nice bump in compression.
We all know the Trickflows are very nice, but by the time they are on your car, you'll have dropped $3k, and still not have a cam or any of the supporting components that can take advantage of what those heads have to offer. It's pretty obvious you're choosing the Patriot's because they are cheap, and they work, and if your long term goals won't continue building the engine up, then yes, they are a terrific value.
Now, if your long term goals included a sizable cam, a FAST intake, etc, then saving for some better heads to compliment your end goal, that would make a lot more sense.
Finally, there is very little shared labor between a head install, and a cam install, so from a labor aspect, there really is no "as long as you're there" or "now's the time to do the cam too" logic. A cam install and a head install are two very different jobs.
Let's face it, the $1000 Patriots will add some hp, and if they are the small chamber versions, will give a nice bump in compression.
We all know the Trickflows are very nice, but by the time they are on your car, you'll have dropped $3k, and still not have a cam or any of the supporting components that can take advantage of what those heads have to offer. It's pretty obvious you're choosing the Patriot's because they are cheap, and they work, and if your long term goals won't continue building the engine up, then yes, they are a terrific value.
Now, if your long term goals included a sizable cam, a FAST intake, etc, then saving for some better heads to compliment your end goal, that would make a lot more sense.
Finally, there is very little shared labor between a head install, and a cam install, so from a labor aspect, there really is no "as long as you're there" or "now's the time to do the cam too" logic. A cam install and a head install are two very different jobs.
Uneducated autodidact
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 5,413
Likes: 252
From: West of the Sabine, Texas
It all depends on what you are looking for....if you want a "max effort" car then buy better heads. If you are talking about a street car, a driver, then for the money I would be willing to give up a few horsepower for the budget heads. Everyone will argue about how many a "few horsepower" are, but no one will be able to prove any number they come up with anyway.
Racer
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 415
Likes: 1
From: Ft. Wayne In
I voted maybe.I picked up 41hp with Patriot stg2 LS6 heads.The graphs are here http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...post1562962326
If I were not going to change the cam I would put the money toward gears.
If I were not going to change the cam I would put the money toward gears.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,979
Likes: 31
From: Wichita KS
I voted maybe.I picked up 41hp with Patriot stg2 LS6 heads.The graphs are here http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...post1562962326
If I were not going to change the cam I would put the money toward gears.
If I were not going to change the cam I would put the money toward gears.
ILM-Express, I would spring for the heads, its a good deal and if you feel you need a change 2k miles later than you would still be able to get $800 for them. I really want trick flows but they are about $1500 MORE than the PP heads
Team Owner
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 21,473
Likes: 356
From: Palmdale, Ca----- 2009 Cyber Gray 4LT A6 F55 452 RWHP 422 RWTQ- RIP 1998 C5 734 RWHP & 585 RWTQ-----
They will flow much better! and you'll gain HP and TQ by swapping them out!
They are a good head for a good price! make good numbers!
Thanks,Matt
They are a good head for a good price! make good numbers!
Thanks,Matt
