C5 Tech gurus: C5 push button start.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 41,036
Likes: 9,798
From: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
I can't think of any advantage for a push button start. Can anyone tell me why you would go to the expense and trouble just so you didn't have to turn the key? You'd still have to carry the fob, and you'd have to bypass the key pellet, and the column lock. I must not see the big picture.
Even on the new cars it is sort of ridiculous. My father had cars in the early 50s that had push button start.
Are we going back to the future?
Bill
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,368
Likes: 30
From: dfw Texas
If the fob battery deteriorates (yet still operational), I have it warn you every time you start the car to replace it. If it dies, you still have the key to get in the car (the key hides in the fob). You'll have to get a new battery to start your car. You lose some convenience yes, but you can carry a spare battery in your wallet 
The Infiniti G35 fob which I use and modifiy has a passive RFID. If your battery dies, the long range won't work. But, the short range uses no battery. You still need to place the fob next to the module near the ignition. It started getting expensive on my end to build something that complex. I'm only including one antennae as well, so if the key is in the car and you purposely lock the doors from the switch, they WILL lock.
But, I've tried to work out all the scenarios and "what ifs" with this system and provided some work arounds and solutions to make everyone happy.
About security... I would be damned if someone had the $$$ and time to hack a 128bit encryption which btw will require a second verification once you press the start button of yet another key. This is probably more secure than your resistance-back keys.
I include a backup fob as well. If you lose both, I can send you a new one preprogrammed.
This is definitely not for everyone. And I'm not here to convince anyone that this is a must have. I would be more interested in getting help from those who want this with some details, maybe some wiring diagrams (I'll buy the electrical shop manual if need be). Whatever...
I used to be big in DSMs, had a nicely modded eclipse (www.twingles.com/ideck) and heck yeah I remember Wonger and a few others. You had a Supra? Crap its been a long time. I had been contemplating switch from Supra to a C6 Z06 for quite some time. Just finding the right itch to scratch.
The Infiniti G35 fob which I use and modifiy has a passive RFID. If your battery dies, the long range won't work. But, the short range uses no battery. You still need to place the fob next to the module near the ignition. It started getting expensive on my end to build something that complex. I'm only including one antennae as well, so if the key is in the car and you purposely lock the doors from the switch, they WILL lock.
But, I've tried to work out all the scenarios and "what ifs" with this system and provided some work arounds and solutions to make everyone happy.
About security... I would be damned if someone had the $$$ and time to hack a 128bit encryption which btw will require a second verification once you press the start button of yet another key. This is probably more secure than your resistance-back keys.
I include a backup fob as well. If you lose both, I can send you a new one preprogrammed.
This is definitely not for everyone. And I'm not here to convince anyone that this is a must have. I would be more interested in getting help from those who want this with some details, maybe some wiring diagrams (I'll buy the electrical shop manual if need be). Whatever...
I used to be big in DSMs, had a nicely modded eclipse (www.twingles.com/ideck) and heck yeah I remember Wonger and a few others. You had a Supra? Crap its been a long time. I had been contemplating switch from Supra to a C6 Z06 for quite some time. Just finding the right itch to scratch.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 19,388
Likes: 1,134
From: Dyer, IN
Are you kidding? How cool would it be to have a push button start? It would be soo neat to hack into the C5 electrical systems and try to make it work! Can't wait till the kit is available. I'm going to custom make mine, so it starts with one of those 4" diameter Staples "Easy Buttons" 
Last edited by lucky131969; Aug 6, 2008 at 02:07 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 887
Likes: 1
From: Dallas TX
This is definitely not for everyone. And I'm not here to convince anyone that this is a must have. I would be more interested in getting help from those who want this with some details, maybe some wiring diagrams (I'll buy the electrical shop manual if need be). Whatever...
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,191
Likes: 43
From: Scottsdale Az
Pretty obvious you do NOT know the C5 column lock and security issues. If the computer does not see the correct key-you ain't goin nowhere! Since you have to present the key somewhere, may as well just TURN THE KEY. Anybody that tries this on a C5 is asking for trouble-just search for all the "column lock"and "Pull key and wait 10 sec" posts.
I love the idea of walking up to the car, sliding in, and pushing a button that brings the beast to life.
Advanced
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
From: Union NJ
Your right about the remote start alarm systems. If anyone has an install manual for the Viper systems, they might have a simple way of bypassing the ECU. If its just a resistance value to some wire that enables the ignition, that should be cake.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,314
Likes: 0
From: Tallahassee Florida
I could really use this setup in the race car, the key setup is a pain in the butt for us. Every time we want to move the car in the shop or in the trailer you have to reach inside and turn the key one notch and then forget to turn it back half of the time and then end up with a dead battery.
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Team Owner
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 54,204
Likes: 180
From: S.W. Ohio. . . . . . NRA Life Member
You wouldn't then be defeating the factory security system with this arrangement.
Advanced
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
From: Union NJ
Are C5s Passkey I/II or PassLock I/II? I've been doing some reading. It seems that mfgs like Viper and other alarm companies suggest a separate purchase of a bypass kit.
This link gives a good description of bypassing Passkey I/II:
http://newrockies.ca/vatsbypass/
Easy to do.
Here is a product which can bypass all 3 types of recent GM immobilizers:
http://www.gigaweb.com/product_info....ducts_id=25594
There seems to be quite a bit out there for bypassing the C5 and C6 security. So, I would think this shouldn't be an issue. As far as the start button is concerned, one would merely install it as if it were a normal alarm system and have to purchase the bypass kit for their year vette.
Now, the other concern is the column lock. Heck, they even make a product for that (which I know you are all aware of):
http://www.corvettesofhouston.com/pr...products_id=54
So, the remaining major issue would be button installation. The button you see on my Supra:
was custom made. The original button came from a Toyota Avalon. Mostly all push-start buttons are too long to fit in the Supra Key-Cylinder location (I have removed my key cylinder btw). This custom button is much shorter and is a simple led/button unit. For you C5 guys, I assume you can use a C6 start button and completely replace the key cylinder?
If not, you could just install a separate button somewhere else and leave the key cylinder in place. It will be disabled completely electronically (since the column lock is not mechanically linked).
Let me know your thoughts.
This link gives a good description of bypassing Passkey I/II:
http://newrockies.ca/vatsbypass/
Easy to do.
Here is a product which can bypass all 3 types of recent GM immobilizers:
http://www.gigaweb.com/product_info....ducts_id=25594
There seems to be quite a bit out there for bypassing the C5 and C6 security. So, I would think this shouldn't be an issue. As far as the start button is concerned, one would merely install it as if it were a normal alarm system and have to purchase the bypass kit for their year vette.
Now, the other concern is the column lock. Heck, they even make a product for that (which I know you are all aware of):
http://www.corvettesofhouston.com/pr...products_id=54
So, the remaining major issue would be button installation. The button you see on my Supra:
was custom made. The original button came from a Toyota Avalon. Mostly all push-start buttons are too long to fit in the Supra Key-Cylinder location (I have removed my key cylinder btw). This custom button is much shorter and is a simple led/button unit. For you C5 guys, I assume you can use a C6 start button and completely replace the key cylinder?
If not, you could just install a separate button somewhere else and leave the key cylinder in place. It will be disabled completely electronically (since the column lock is not mechanically linked).
Let me know your thoughts.
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,933
Likes: 30
From: San Rafael CA
Please don't bother posting when the car gets stolen .... don't wanna hear about it.....
Advanced
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
From: Union NJ
The start button will not work unless the key fob is in range. It uses RFID technology. The key fob is linked to the door locks and the start button circuitry. It in itself is a more sophisticated security system than the Passkey/code systems.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,736
Likes: 7
From: Redding CA
Yeah and not to jump in but it really is a nice feature...believe me, that's probably why it comes on a new C6.
For one thing, for guys it really ain't that big a deal but for your girl....if she's driving your car and it's late in a parking lot at night or something, she doesn't even have to look for the key, just walk up to the car and open the door.
If it's pouring down rain, again...no need to look for the key...just hop in
If you've got your hands totally full of stuff and don't feel like setting something down on the ground just to dig in your pocket for the key, you don't even have to....
Also, with that intelligent key setup...it's usually set up to where you can't lock your keys in the car or trunk on an FRC, it would actually pop your trunk back open and flash the lights if you left your keys in your gym back or something and accidentally shut em' in the trunk.
There are a couple of advantages...
Donnie
For one thing, for guys it really ain't that big a deal but for your girl....if she's driving your car and it's late in a parking lot at night or something, she doesn't even have to look for the key, just walk up to the car and open the door.
If it's pouring down rain, again...no need to look for the key...just hop in
If you've got your hands totally full of stuff and don't feel like setting something down on the ground just to dig in your pocket for the key, you don't even have to....
Also, with that intelligent key setup...it's usually set up to where you can't lock your keys in the car or trunk on an FRC, it would actually pop your trunk back open and flash the lights if you left your keys in your gym back or something and accidentally shut em' in the trunk.
There are a couple of advantages...
Donnie
Tech Contributor
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 41,036
Likes: 9,798
From: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
Yeah and not to jump in but it really is a nice feature...believe me, that's probably why it comes on a new C6.
For one thing, for guys it really ain't that big a deal but for your girl....if she's driving your car and it's late in a parking lot at night or something, she doesn't even have to look for the key, just walk up to the car and open the door.
If it's pouring down rain, again...no need to look for the key...just hop in
If you've got your hands totally full of stuff and don't feel like setting something down on the ground just to dig in your pocket for the key, you don't even have to....
Also, with that intelligent key setup...it's usually set up to where you can't lock your keys in the car or trunk on an FRC, it would actually pop your trunk back open and flash the lights if you left your keys in your gym back or something and accidentally shut em' in the trunk.
There are a couple of advantages...
Donnie
For one thing, for guys it really ain't that big a deal but for your girl....if she's driving your car and it's late in a parking lot at night or something, she doesn't even have to look for the key, just walk up to the car and open the door.
If it's pouring down rain, again...no need to look for the key...just hop in
If you've got your hands totally full of stuff and don't feel like setting something down on the ground just to dig in your pocket for the key, you don't even have to....
Also, with that intelligent key setup...it's usually set up to where you can't lock your keys in the car or trunk on an FRC, it would actually pop your trunk back open and flash the lights if you left your keys in your gym back or something and accidentally shut em' in the trunk.
There are a couple of advantages...
Donnie
Bill
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,466
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From: Fort Wayne IN
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I'd be interested to see how this works out. Having worked on a new ZO6 recently and personally seen how efficient the just walk up and it unlocks feature is, I've been pining for a way to do it in the C5. THis could be the ticket.
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,319
Likes: 1
From: Lincoln Nebraska
I think it's a concept worth pursuing 
As do several others from the sound of it.
All of those that think its a bad idea, and are not interested in having a positive discussion, please go somewhere else and spread your negativity, you are INTERFERING with this post.
By the way some of us DO drive in the rain.....maybe even the snow on occasion.
As do several others from the sound of it.All of those that think its a bad idea, and are not interested in having a positive discussion, please go somewhere else and spread your negativity, you are INTERFERING with this post.
By the way some of us DO drive in the rain.....maybe even the snow on occasion.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 19,388
Likes: 1,134
From: Dyer, IN
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,765
Likes: 2
From: St. Clair Shores Mi
so what makes having a key for ignition any less likely to be stolen then this? ie c6's and whatever other cars that use this tech.