Anymore interference will NOT be permitted.

 

I don't like discussing the security system on an open forum ... let's just say this .... "unlocking" the door with no key in the door will trigger the alarm ... the CTD system assumes someone is using a slim jim on the door.

The BCM expects that the car is opened either by the fobs programmed to the car, or with the vehicle key in the door lock (and certain things have to happen in certain sequences) .... basically other than that the alarm will be triggered.

Skip trying to use your fob for anything other than starting the vehicle ... the Corvette fobs, when they unlock the car, also cause the BCM to command "memory" (which is installed on probably 80 percent of the C5s) which sets things like radio presets, outside mirror positions, and seat positions. With up to 3 fobs being able to be programmed, I can have 3 completely different sets of "memory". Depending on which fob unlocks the car determines which setting are recalled.

If you want to try and pursue a START button, you have to satisfy the BCM that all is well .... the BCM can both inhibit the starter, and it also supplies the PCM with a "fuel enable" password .... if the BCM is unhappy, it won't provide the password. So you can, for example, crank the engine by "hot wiring" the starter motor, but the engine won't start (fuel injectors won't be commanded on) until/unless the BCM sees a "valid" start sequence and provides the password.

So far, the only START buttons I've heard anyone successfully install in a C5 are the ones where you have to turn the key to ON and then press and hold the button (which simply mimmicks the key moving to START) ....

The C6 button, by the way, is not really a start button as wired in most cars. You simply touch the button and let go. That sends a command to the PCM to start the engine ... the PCM makes a few checks (you'll notice a split second delay after you hit the button) for things like engine coolant temperature (is this a hot or cold start?) and then manages the whole start sequence, cranking, fuel, spark, etc.

If you search ... there was a guy in the UK a year or two ago who tried all kinds of ways to get a START button to work without inserting a key ..... try SEARCH and you might find his thread .... he could never get the start sequence/timing to work to get the BCM to issue the "fuel enable" password.

Just do a search on all the problems people have with the column lock and starting the car ..... Once the BCM decides you ain't driving the car ... then you ain't driving the car.

 

Here is the custom button I had to build for the Supra, which replaces the key cylinder:



This is near-final product:



And the reworked keyfob that will come with the unit (and a backup fob)

 

I've read up on the column lock issues on C5s when I was researching electronic column locks for our Supras. I am aware of the concerns there.

The project I built is a button which triggers all sorts of things. It has the ability to supply 50hz signal to fool Passkey 1 and 2 type securities. You don't really hold the button down until the car cranks either. Check out the video on yourtube, it shows the operation. It will operate a sequence that some of us tuners need. It puts the ignition to ON lets say and allows the fuel pump to prime before initiating the crank phase, and other things of that nature.

So, your saying that the key in the door lock communicates some type of code to determine settings (from the FOB). C5 keys and FOB are one unit? Can you separate the key and unlock the door succesfully without triggreing an alarm, and still start you car?

There are lots of unanswered questions, its just finding the answers or work arounds. Once we know the caveats, then we can assess how difficult this will be.

If lets say this all works but you lose the ability to have 3 different seat settings based on the key fob, then whomever installs my kit will know that will be a limitation.

I had quite a few unanswered questions with my Supra, which has different security measures as well. Since I own one, I was able to finds ways to bypass and make it work. To do the same on a C5, it would be easiest if I owned one. Otherwise, I can only get my information from you guys...

 

PM sent

 

BlackZO6

Instead of constantly being the "never gonna happen" type with this, why not give the guy some credit for what he's done, as the Supra's being a flagship vehicle of sorts had their own batch of electronics, and if he successfully managed around that, I'm sure with some testing, ingenuity, and time, he could do the same with the C5. All it takes is a little know how and intimacy with the systems in the car, and time. I for one hope to see this done as it would be a very nice "update" modification to the C5, and I for one will be in line waiting to purchase a kit for my own car.

Have a little faith in guys that want to do something rather than say "there's this and that in the way and it won't happen" or "so and so tried but failed so you will too."

 

I sent him a PM with a complement on the "kit" he has built for the Supra. I also answered some questions ... I already told him I was not gonna discuss the security system further in a public forum.

I told him that there are probably greener pastures for him to pursue ... he says he does not have a Corvette .... making a system for the car when you don't have one to test against is gonna be near impossible.

Even the Service Manual does not detail all of the ways the Corvette security system works ... kinda like it doesn't explain all the ways the PCM manages the engine ... he needs a car to test on and he doesn't have one ....

If you're so gung ho for this .... why don't you go solve the "problem" .... I'm giving him information ... what are you doing ???

 

Two questions: If you get this button to work on a C5, how do you turn the car off? and how does a C6 turn the engine off? I've never driven one and hadn't thought about it till now.

 

Glad this thread is finally taking a turn away from the negativity.

From the time I was a teenager I loved my grandfather's pushbutton starter on his old Buick. Always wanted a car with one. I'll hold off until I get a C6 but keep up the good work

It's a toggle button. You just push the button again to turn the car off. If you look closely at his picture, you can see the button says Start and then Stop

 

The button is microcontrolled. It doesn't connect to a starter as classical start buttons did. Once running, if you press the button one more time, it will shut everything off.

Without your foot on the brake (or for C5s, just like Supras, there is a switch under your clutch where it must be depressed to close the ignition circuit... if these vehicles are similar in that fashion), pressing the button will immediate initiate the start engine sequence. Without any pedal pressed, the button will alternate between ACC, ON, and then OFF.

I appreciate the concern about discussing the C5 or C6 security on this open forum, but I'm sure anyone of us can find details by searching google. I did a quick search for Passkey 3 and found a dozen pages on how to bypass it including circuit diagrams. The information is out there...

 

this looks like a job for theradioflyer

 

that looks exactly like a Bulldog mfrd remote start module and relay pack. The integration of the "turn ignition on - start the engine" wiring is not all that difficult. Heck; if you go to Bulldog Security web site, they have a wire-4-wire diagram for the C5. This takes care of 3/4ths of the project.

BTW; If you didn't already know, the newest aftermarket remote start modules have the high-current relays built into the module... you no-longer hafta find a place to mount a seperate relay pack.

 

Realistically.. if you think you can talk about ANYTHING here security system related that thieves dont know about.. you are delusional. Its not like Vettes dont get stolen. if We can figure out how to get around it.. they can to.

Dre.. Awesome work so far.. i hope some of the Vette gurus get involve more so tha this becomes reality.

 

and ... don't C5 6 speeds require the clutch be disengaged before starting ?

 

http://www.bypasskit.com/product.aspx?prodid=PKUGM2X

 

 

I like the idea. I did something more primitive on my car - shaved door handles, remote door openers and push-to-start button. I still use the VATS key for security however. - key must be in the ON position to start.

I have been investigating the C6 style fob-in-your-pocket start method but really have not had the time to pursue it further.

If this goes to production for the C5, EnglandGreen Corp. would be happy to discuss Corvette distribution via the Corvette Forum.

Stephen Rawlins

 

I did the casing design off of something I had for years back, but it may be similiar. I liked the shape

I'm aware of the Bulldog unit. I intended my unit for us tuners. There are more features that allow you to do a compression test, prime the fuel pump, and other things. The idea behind my project is a kit that makes this look very OEM. Hence the supra project where the button looks like it was meant to be. Thats where the extra cost comes from.

I had planned to integrate the relays to the module, but some cars need 3, some need 5, and replacing bad relays is easier when they are external. Maybe in a future product I can incorporate them.

 

Hope we can keep this alive!

 

BTW, what are you charging for the kits for the Supra? This may tell whether people will actually want a kit.