I think if a nice system was developed there would be huge sales for it. I have it on my Cadillac and it is nice to never have the key, just fob in pocket, push the button. Leave the fob for the valet.

 

Well then that solves our immobilizer problem eh?

I will be honest here. For this to seriously work, I will need some help from some of you. Someone has to test the immobilizer and make sure it works. For my system to adapt easily, I need to do the following:

1) Unlock the car externally without a key. I can unlock by sinking the same wire that is sunk when your key is in the door and turned to unlock. So, I need someone to be able to unlock the car with a spare non-pellet non-fob key just to see if it unlocks and does not complain.

2) Once unlocked and in the car, we need to see if with the Passkey BYPASS kit (anyone you choose) installed, if you can insert this spare key (get one cut at Lowes) and if it can start the car successfully.

If its manual and needs a clutch press, thats fine. My system needs you to press the brake (or the clutch) for the button to start the car.

3) Drive the car successfully. You may need to use the column lock bypass kit as well. So, two extra kits someone needs to purchase and install.

4) Turn the car off and exit the car. Lock the car with the spare key again. See that the car alarms itself (keep a window open, try to "break in", etc).

If we can achieve those steps somehow, than we have a good chance. The rest will be locating the correct wires to tap into the system, locating a button you guys like, where to install the button (can we remove the key cylinder and place a button in its place), and that should be it. I also need to make sure I can fit a blank C5 key into the key fob so that you guys can get one cut.

 

Right now, having contacts at Toyota dealers for parts and such, my cost is hovering around $450 for everything for Supras. I am charging $500-$550 depending on what break I can get from the plastics machine shop. So, thats what you may expect. The break down is $75 for the start button, $90 for the fob and integrated key, and everything else such as boards, circuits, plastic components, etc. With vendor support and markup, they may go for $700. If I get strong vendor support, I would eventually sell them out right through vendors. For now, for us Supra guys, this is just a few kits, no real profit. If this starts to take up my time in construction, I will have to look into adding a profit margin. But, that will be way down the line.

These kits seem to run $400-600 and they either do start button or entry, but not both. You'll see them more and more, but they will have limits.

For me to add more oscillators and antenae (so that it can detect if you leave the fob INSIDE you car) would push this thing to $1000+.

I know there are some drawbacks to my unit, but it does the basic intended job. I priced out the entire system from an Infiniti FX45 which is identical, came out to almost $3000 dealer cost for everything. Stuff is still expensive to make, in a few years this should be everywhere in the market.

The reason Vendors don't carry these is that... to remove the key cylinder, to disable the column lock, etc, becomes a liability. Also, every single car is different, so these kits now have to become unique to every car. Your dealing with a button that every driver touches. So now, one driver doesn't like this button, or that button, and you'll have to offer different kits.

Just look at all the bypass kits out there. Realistically, this kit is for cars before 2004. Cars which have a simple OEM alarm and key, no frills. The more security we have to defeat, the less our returns will be with this system. I think a C5/Z06 can still be done unless we stumble on something that we missed.

 

i would be very interested in this. looking forward to the progress

 

The link I gave to the bypass has PDF's with instructions on which wires to hack into for the Passkey 3 system

http://www.bypasskit.com/getdocument...documentid=746

This is still non-trivial, there will be a lot of work to make it partially do what the current FOB/key system does and is it really "KEWL" enough to spend $500-1000 to NOT turn the key?

Still seems about as useful as lowering your car till is scapes on everything.

 

I can answer a couple of these as I've got familiarity with the VATS styled system.

1. The door lock does not recognize the pellet in the key. Nothing needed there. Any correctly cut key will open the lock.

*edit* Let me recant real quick. Doing the above WILL set off the alarm (if active) until the key is placed in the ignition and the ignition is flipped to on. I learned this first hand with my pelleted key the first day I had the car (remote was inop). Now, considering the below stuff in step 2, I'm not so sure it won't still set off the alarm with the non-pelled key even with the resistor wired into the system.

2. As long as the VATS system is seeing the proper resistance (I.E. a resistor wired into the connector, I've done this a bunch of times on Firebirds and Camaro's for guys who were having issues), a non-pellet key would start the car provided it's correctly cut.

3. Not so sure about here......my mind says that with the VATS seeing the resistance, no issues would be encountered. But I can't guarantee this.

4. See #1.

I will volunteer to test the above procedure over the course of the next week, since I have to get under my dash to do some rewiring anyway. I might be able to accomplish it this evening actually as long as I can find a blank key locally.

 

$700+? WOW!! You may want to do a poll or something on that before doing anymore. Seems like way too much for something of this nature. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to have it on my car, but that's just way too much.

 

Ok.
a) How is the alarm activated? Do you have to set the alarm with the C5 FOB?
b) Does it automatically arm if you lock it with a SPARE key?
c) If you don't set the alarm with the FOB, will it never arm itself?
Can you be 100% certain of this? If not, then the system must have to check for the key's pellet OR the fob is in range at the time you unlock the door with the key. If its the fob that needs to be in range, they must have some bypass kit for that as well. Alarm mfgs. must have faced that when they alowed you to lock/unlock the doors with their own fob.

Thats it? So this would remove the need for a bypass kit? If thats the case, we need to have the resistance value for each individual purchaser.

Excellent.

 

Alarm gets set with the FOB. That's it.

No.

It won't self-arm. I leave my car unarmed and unlocked in the garage for upwards of a month at a time.

Yup. It's pretty simplistic. Now, the 04 Lan based stuff is a bit different, but as far as I know, the only thing REQUIRED on the 97-03 stuff is the proper resistance simulating the pellet in the key being in the ignition. I believe there's 15 different pellet resistance values. Here's a couple of links (For the F-Body, but same principals apply, and thanks to Rob a.k.a. shoebox for keeping that site running):

http://shbox.com/1/4th_gen_tech2.html#pass_key -- Key Values and resistance needs

http://shbox.com/1/vats_bypass.jpg -- Bypass wiring

BlackZO6 -- Am I doing enough now??

 

Nice. Ok, then this changes it slightly. My system is not an alarm system, but it was adapted for the Supra's OEM alarm, which is set with the key locking the door, or disarmed with the key unlocking the door.

If we take the C5 FOB out of the loop, then you won't have an alarm system. Hmmm... It would defeat the purpose to have to carry the C5 fob for arming/disarming, that means you'll need to take the fob out and press a button. I can only guess that the schematics for the C5 alarm system have some type of wire which you can pull high or low and may also serve as an arm/disarm method.

Do C5s come with different OEM alarm systems or this is standard?

Are you positive that locking the car with a SPARE key in the door cylinder won't also arm it? Need to verify that. If thats the case, then this system probably won't make sense (it can work, but not make sense). If you still have to pull out a fob to arm your car, then keyless makes it a mute point.

BUT.. BUT. We have a 2nd option. I can offer a very small fob that you carry with your current C5 fob. You leave the door option the same, arming/unarming with the fob. The smaller 2nd key fob can be used exclusively to activate/deactivate the start button.

Depends on what people can live with. Essentially, its the same kit that I would provide, you just don't connect the door lock/unlock wires. The door relays are on the internal circuit board, so it makes no sense to remove them.

 

When you exit the car you can push the electric lock button on the door and the alarm will arm, in order to arm the alarm with an add on system you just send the signal to the same place the electric lock button on the door panel does. To go one step further and make it all work even better you can tap into the output from the factory FOB receiver and the aftermarket setup can send the same signal to the rest of the car that they factory fob does. Problem solved.

Corvette lock/unlock/alarm/VATS systems are not state of the art, not are they hard to bypass and manipulate for aftermarket systems.

 

Sure, that works well. So we have LOCK solved. My system locks via the door lock button and that triggers the alarm.

We need to solve UNLOCK from the key at the door. I was informed that if you unlock an armed C5 with the door key, the alarm will go off. And, if you insert a pellet-key in the ignition and turn key to ACC, alarm turns off. What I can do is program the microcontroller to do the same. If it can be timed just right, you shouldn't hear the siren. That will have to be tested.

 

 

Ok. 97-04 is C5. Z06 ran from 01-04.

97-03 = Passkey II (VATS)
04 = Passkey III or a different version of Passkey II

Correct me if I'm wrong.
- The pellet bypass you linked above (for firebirds) should work on all 97-03 C5s (Including Z06)?
- Overridding the pellet permenantly will enable you to start the car and drive at will with a non-pellet key?

The next thing would be column lock. How successful is the column lock override boxes I've seen advertised? It would probably be cheaper to have 'you' purchase that box rather than myself creating that circuit.

What I need to have now is wiring, which I'm sure I can find from other sites, but I would like to see the manufacture wiring for the ignition. Anyone have a .pdf of a C5 ignition from the dealer manual? I need to know which wires are on (and off) at each key stage (acc, on, start).

On my Supra, the ignition key cylinder has a 6-wire connector of which I plug in a turbo-timer harness. This eliminates the user from cutting wires down there. Is the C5 the same? Anyone have a photo of the connection down there?

If that goes kosher, I need to find a local (Somerset NJ) C5 in which I can install and test it, possibly in a week or two. I would leave the button external for now. I would need to see how the plastics are and how my button would fit. Then, I would need to create a suitable button that everyone likes. If the C6 Z06 buttons are cheap, then we can go that route.

 

For the kits you have made, are all the parts readily available, and will they be available in the near future. Is it plug-n-play, or does it have to be hardwired? Reason I ask, if a year from now someone can't start their car as a result of a component failure, what do they do? I'm sure you provide a wiring diagram with the kit..how about a troubleshooting guide? This is negated if it is plug-n-play.

 

Z06 push button....



Can someone supply a nice image of the key cylinder and surround area? Would like to see what room there is to install a button. If its easy enough to remove the key cylinder, can I get some photos of that as well?

 

I will be here for quite some time. I'm easy to be found will have no problems providing tech support for the unit. I plan to offer 1 year warranty for parts/labor incase something goes wrong, limited of course. I will provide wiring instructions.

Most of it will be wiring. You can get away with using inline-tap connectors, except for the ignition wiring. You would either solder it, or hopefully I can find a mating connector so that that portion is plug and play. From the looks of it, you would have to install the bypass resistor. You would have to install the column lock bypass. There are about 10 wires total that need connection:

TACH SENSE (or some 12v trigger that tells my box that the engine is running)
BRAKE SWITCH (or clutch switch)
LEFT/RIGHT parking lights
DOOR LOCK
DOOR UNLOCK
IGNITION WIRING (hopefully a connector, otherwise about 6 - 8 wires cut/spliced/soldered)
+12V
ACC
GND

That about it for cutting.

 

wow, I have never seen sooo many stupid posts from people who don't understand a thing about what is going on here.

My family owns a car shop and are a authorized viper dealer. For my remote start, there is a$30 bypass kit that imitates the key being in by providing the correct resistance. It goes around the tumbler right behind the plastic shroud on the inside of the column. If you want more detail, feel free to ask. Everything works fine. Nobody can steal my car. if you're so worried, hide the start button under the seat or something. what a bunch of paranoid people. They also have a kit like for fords, it actually puts a key up in the dash and reads it to start the car. If someone wants, i can provide a number for my shop and you can call and talk to an installer (i'm in iraq now, so can't call me)

as far as someone knocking modifying your car with something that doesn't belong, go over to the FI section and tell all the guys who are supercharged.

Wow, I'm just mad that these people are all bashing something really cool. If you don't like it, go away.

Can this thing get back on freakin track.

 

Thanks to moderator intervention, we are making some progress.

 

my reciever for the fobs went out a while ago so i have just been using the key. if you lock the car using the door switch the car has to be unlocked with the key or the fob. so if i lock the car and then reach in through the window and unlock the car the alarm will go off the i have to put the key in the door and unlock it manually to turn it off.

i am glad there are other people interested in doing this.