ported 90/90
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
When i was porting the intake, I took a bunch of pics. I had LOTS of friendly help figuring all this out:
Base attached to heads on the table. This was fun;
Here a molecule of airs view of what happening:
pics above were rough in test fits.
Here we are getting closer:
I had a blast porting my FAST 90. This is all my own design and own porting. I copied NO ONES port design. I did however listen to Tony M in many of his excellent post and took notes on what he said. I have basic porting skills that I learned on old school Chevy stuff.
If you try this BE CAREFUL. I thought aluminum was unforgiving. Plastic is 5 times more sensitive!!
Base attached to heads on the table. This was fun;
Here a molecule of airs view of what happening:
pics above were rough in test fits.
Here we are getting closer:
I had a blast porting my FAST 90. This is all my own design and own porting. I copied NO ONES port design. I did however listen to Tony M in many of his excellent post and took notes on what he said. I have basic porting skills that I learned on old school Chevy stuff.
If you try this BE CAREFUL. I thought aluminum was unforgiving. Plastic is 5 times more sensitive!!
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 8,003
Likes: 249
From: Tampa Fl
St. Jude Donor '12-'13-'14
Nice job Bill ! you did much more than I. I wish I had more knowledge before I installed it( last year ) because I would have opened it up and taken out alot more.
The point im trying to make is that you can do a whole lot of porting with a little knowledge, and if you have a shop do it, ask questions and get pictures about their work.
boys as you can see,all porting is not the same
The point im trying to make is that you can do a whole lot of porting with a little knowledge, and if you have a shop do it, ask questions and get pictures about their work.
boys as you can see,all porting is not the same
Last edited by phils C5 vette; Aug 29, 2008 at 10:29 PM.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
Nice job Bill ! you did much more than I. I wish I had more knowledge before I installed it( last year ) because I would have opened it up and taken out alot more.
The point im trying to make is that you can do a whole lot of porting with a little knowledge, and if you have a shop do it, ask questions and get pictures about their work.
boys as you can see,all porting is not the same
The point im trying to make is that you can do a whole lot of porting with a little knowledge, and if you have a shop do it, ask questions and get pictures about their work.
boys as you can see,all porting is not the same
"boys as you can see,all porting is not the same"
Boy,,,Ide say!
Porting is a LOT of pains taking work and removing LOTs of material is NOT the way to go. Taking it out in just the correct areas is what counts. I tried to be conservative and only remove obstructions to air flow, contour things for better air flow and smooth sharp edges. I also matched the intake ports of the manifold to the heads and then fine tuned the heads to match the areas of the FAST ports. As you can see from the pics, it is pretty close. I did some fine tuning after those shots and it was a lot closer and smoother at the transition of the head intake port and FAST port.
Getting all those rubber seals back in the correct areas is also a chore and then you have to seal the intersections together correctly.
I was worried about getting the intake to seal so I taped up the ports, sealed the air fittings and filled it with water and looked for leaks. First try and SUCCESS!!!
I can see why porting is EXPENSIVE. It takes time and skill.
I don't have the fancy flow bench tools necessary to see what gains that I made but, there has to be something more than stock design FAST.
Pro
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 619
Likes: 1
From: ATLANTA GA
Now compare it to the picture in the first post with the pencil
as suggested earlier, The manifold in question is a vengeance manifold. "Vengeance Racing Development(VRD) This shows their work and inscription on the bottom.
Its amazing a simple search query can find the answer to a mystery...
Last edited by vettekidc5; Aug 31, 2008 at 06:07 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,979
Likes: 31
From: Wichita KS
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 11,405
Likes: 26
From: Whippany NJ
CI 6-7-8-9 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
NCM Sinkhole Donor
and that is why I think there is nothing wrong with the porting. You paid X amount to get the manifold to where it is. If the price you paid was the same as Tony's then Id raise hell, see where Im getting at?I can tell you right now, Tony takes out alot more material than that which means more "time" spent.
Last edited by Ikester; Sep 1, 2008 at 01:34 PM.
Pro
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 619
Likes: 1
From: ATLANTA GA
The only thing that seems childish to me, is the witholding of information on the vendor, I guess its ok for everyone to be supprised with the results blindly just as you were, and having to do more work to make it right?
User feedback is one of the main things on this fourm that we value, Its what gives us the option of picking other vendors over others based on their quality of work,customer service,price, and ethics. This inturn can keep things competative, when everyone leans to one vendor over another because everyones good luck with them.
Thanks for trying to stop the information train on your experience
User feedback is one of the main things on this fourm that we value, Its what gives us the option of picking other vendors over others based on their quality of work,customer service,price, and ethics. This inturn can keep things competative, when everyone leans to one vendor over another because everyones good luck with them.
Thanks for trying to stop the information train on your experience
Last edited by vettekidc5; Sep 2, 2008 at 02:32 AM.
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Drifting
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,650
Likes: 4
From: Ringgold GA
The only thing that seems childish to me, is the witholding of information on the vendor, I guess its ok for everyone to be supprised with the results blindly just as you were, and having to do more work to make it right?
User feedback is one of the main things on this fourm that we value, Its what gives us the option of picking other vendors over others based on their quality of work,customer service,price, and ethics. This inturn can keep things competative, when everyone leans to one vendor over another because everyones good luck with them.
Thanks for trying to stop the information train on your experience
User feedback is one of the main things on this fourm that we value, Its what gives us the option of picking other vendors over others based on their quality of work,customer service,price, and ethics. This inturn can keep things competative, when everyone leans to one vendor over another because everyones good luck with them.
Thanks for trying to stop the information train on your experience
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 8,003
Likes: 249
From: Tampa Fl
St. Jude Donor '12-'13-'14
We can agree to disagree on throwing names out there
But, Do your homework about who you buy from, and again ask questions and dont let people tell you it's all the same. That's the important part because it's not.
You get what you pay. Do you think I gained much from my porting
But, Do your homework about who you buy from, and again ask questions and dont let people tell you it's all the same. That's the important part because it's not.
You get what you pay. Do you think I gained much from my porting
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 8,003
Likes: 249
From: Tampa Fl
St. Jude Donor '12-'13-'14
Well hopefully, you guys and more importantly the vendor/ sponsor on this web site that ported my manifold will learn how to port from Bill Curlee's pictures and threads from Tony Mamo.
I doubt I gained anything from this porting. What do you think?
I doubt I gained anything from this porting. What do you think?
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,650
Likes: 4
From: Ringgold GA
Ahh, have you ever priced a Mamo ported intake, compared to what you paid Vengeance? It's about twice and much and for that you probably get twice as much port work.
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,205
Likes: 2
From: Chicago-NW Burbs Illinois
The only thing that seems childish to me, is the witholding of information on the vendor, I guess its ok for everyone to be supprised with the results blindly just as you were, and having to do more work to make it right?
User feedback is one of the main things on this fourm that we value, Its what gives us the option of picking other vendors over others based on their quality of work,customer service,price, and ethics. This inturn can keep things competative, when everyone leans to one vendor over another because everyones good luck with them.
Thanks for trying to stop the information train on your experience
User feedback is one of the main things on this fourm that we value, Its what gives us the option of picking other vendors over others based on their quality of work,customer service,price, and ethics. This inturn can keep things competative, when everyone leans to one vendor over another because everyones good luck with them.
Thanks for trying to stop the information train on your experience
If I ever decide to get a FAST intake ported, Tony M will be the only one getting my business. There should be no reason for a customer to have to redo the work of a "prefessional" shop for a service that was payed for. Anyways, hope you gained something with the additional port work you did.
Pro
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 623
Likes: 11
From: Ankeny IA
But you can always call me "Frances" again, laugh and ignore physics if you like. It costs less.
Former Vendor
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,518
Likes: 7
From: Valencia CA
Since your 90/90 setup is still breathing through a 75mm MAF I doubt you will see much of a gain ported properly or not. The system will always be limited to the maximum airflow of the smallest restriction.
But you can always call me "Frances" again, laugh and ignore physics if you like. It costs less.
But you can always call me "Frances" again, laugh and ignore physics if you like. It costs less.
-Tony
Pro
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 623
Likes: 11
From: Ankeny IA
Actually there would be a gain even with the 75mm MAF....BUT, the bigger MAF is worth a few more ponies on a dialed in combo with a ported 90/90, good heads, and the typical supporting cast. It certainly makes alot of sense to purchase one when your doing the swap to the better induction because the more restrictions in the pipeline you eliminate, the more power you will ultimately make.
-Tony
-Tony
So in the end would those of us with 346 LS motors see the best cost per pony with a ported 78mm FAST? If not what am I missing?
Former Vendor
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,518
Likes: 7
From: Valencia CA
Tony help me out. Something isn't making sense here. When looking at a stock LS6/78mm TB/75mm MAF the general rule when considering an update is to go to the FAST 90 intake with the corresponding TB. The 78mm intake is pretty much deemed not worth it. However if a 90/90 setup will see the majority of it's gain with the stock 75mm MAF in place, then how is the larger 90mm opening helping us? The 75mm MAF will ultimately dictate how much air in the system as a whole can ingest (it should be a marginal restriction in the stock setup as well). So if the 85mm MAF is a small gain, then the real power from this setup has to be coming from the revised ports and not the larger opening.
So in the end would those of us with 346 LS motors see the best cost per pony with a ported 78mm FAST? If not what am I missing?
So in the end would those of us with 346 LS motors see the best cost per pony with a ported 78mm FAST? If not what am I missing?
I normally see dyno gains of 8-10 RWHP with stock unported 78mm FAST intakes and a few of the ported versions (my own former 78 included before I stepped up to the 90) netted my customers 20 RWHP (give or take). The larger 90 mm version was literally only worth another 5 RWHP (peak) showing the actual size of the TB wasn't extremely restrictive even at 78mm (which flows around 900 CFM if you have a ported stock TB....bonestock around 780 CFM and a 90mm unit flows in the vicinity of 1400 CFM!!).
It's this reason why the move to a 92 mm FAST is a mute point (if you already own a 90mm version)....you already have more than enough air available with a 90mm TB opening.
I will say that the move from the FAST 78 to the FAST 90 feels like you picked up a bunch of power because the SOTP from the larger TB blade is awesome (less throttle angle yielding much more airflow and power output). Honestly the 78mm FAST (ported) is very good bang for the buck, BUT...the extra 5 RWHP is nice (with the 90 set-up) and the throttle response from the larger 90 mm set-up is really nice.
Hope this helps...
Tony
Last edited by Tony Mamo @ AFR; Sep 4, 2008 at 03:58 PM.
Former Vendor
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,518
Likes: 7
From: Valencia CA
And thats what I ran in the comparison above (a ported 75 mm OEM TB, although mine was ported increasing its CFM capacity to 900 as I previously mentioned).
Thanks,
Tony
Last edited by Tony Mamo @ AFR; Sep 4, 2008 at 05:11 PM.