Ls1Edit users AND Stve Cole programming.
Former Vendor
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 2,103
Likes: 0
From: Indianapolis Indiana
St. Jude Donor '11
Re: Ls1Edit users AND Stve Cole programming. (Mean Green 2000)
Hi Mark,
I will be there with a few toys and be great to see everyone. May get in a little seat time also. See ya there.
One thing for everyone to remember is that when a program is locked, that just means they locked it so it can not be read. It can still be changed. A good programmer can start from stock and do a fine job and is usually the best way. On top of that, there are plenty of ways for people to hack into someone elses business which is basically what you do when copying someone elses program.
The part I mentioned about LS1 Edit not being able to do everything Steve and Ed does Tom Garland hit on the head. There are quite a few areas, mostly idle quality issues, that you won't have access to. This is important for daily driving and emissions. Some can tolerate a bit of an off idle, but not me personally. The 2001-2002's are more sophisticated in this area also.
Have fun all.
Mike
[Modified by Vette Doc, 6:21 AM 2/8/2002]
I will be there with a few toys and be great to see everyone. May get in a little seat time also. See ya there.
One thing for everyone to remember is that when a program is locked, that just means they locked it so it can not be read. It can still be changed. A good programmer can start from stock and do a fine job and is usually the best way. On top of that, there are plenty of ways for people to hack into someone elses business which is basically what you do when copying someone elses program.
The part I mentioned about LS1 Edit not being able to do everything Steve and Ed does Tom Garland hit on the head. There are quite a few areas, mostly idle quality issues, that you won't have access to. This is important for daily driving and emissions. Some can tolerate a bit of an off idle, but not me personally. The 2001-2002's are more sophisticated in this area also.
Have fun all.
Mike
[Modified by Vette Doc, 6:21 AM 2/8/2002]
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,598
Likes: 1
From: Plano TX
Re: Ls1Edit users AND Stve Cole programming. (kewlbrz)
Today, Keith and James do the programming on their customers cars. I do most on mine as a "learning experience" to experiment with the edge of the envelope for racing and pass on what I find.
Shawn, as you might expect, with every shop in the area trying or buying the LS1 Edit, I won't comment on what or how they are doing the computer tuning online. Be glad to talk to you at the house about it over a beer though :yesnod:
I asked Troy to setup a section in the C5 forum for PCM programming and tuning and he's thinking about that. If he does, it will let the home programmers share what they've learned.
Oh yeah... Linux rocks :lol:
Bill
Shawn, as you might expect, with every shop in the area trying or buying the LS1 Edit, I won't comment on what or how they are doing the computer tuning online. Be glad to talk to you at the house about it over a beer though :yesnod:
I asked Troy to setup a section in the C5 forum for PCM programming and tuning and he's thinking about that. If he does, it will let the home programmers share what they've learned.
Oh yeah... Linux rocks :lol:
Bill
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 7,758
Likes: 0
From: Fort Worth Texas
Cruise-In II Veteran
Cruise-In III Veteran
Re: Ls1Edit users AND Stve Cole programming. (ChrisB)
All I want to do is open up the microsoft word and excell files I am sent and play on occasional bout of RTCW. When Linux can do that... ;)
[Modified by kewlbrz, 9:31 AM 2/8/2002]
Pro
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 697
Likes: 0
From: Albuquerque NM
Re: Ls1Edit users AND Stve Cole programming. (intel55)
I find this thread interesting. Since GM wrote the code originally, aren't both Cole and Wright infringing on someone elses software when thay modify it? Or are they putting in a brand new COMPLETE program that they wrote? I think we paid for GM's software when we bought our cars. I don't want to sound like I am taking sides; just food for thought.
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,154
Likes: 1
From: Murphy TX
Cruise-In II Veteran
Re: Ls1Edit users AND Stve Cole programming. (intel55)
how much, so far would you estimate ls1edit can do as compared to p2??
There have been lots of claims of this differential (this board and others) but I haven't seen any specific comments other than Tom's idle quality comments.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 2,540
Likes: 2
From: Milwaukee WI
LS1Edit Guru
Cruise-In I Veteran
Cruise-In II Veteran
Cruise-In III Veteran
Re: Ls1Edit users AND Stve Cole programming. (ToplessTexan)
So far, the LS1Edit product seems pretty good. It eliminates the need for a maf translator (allows very fine control of maf calibration by hz), provides all the transmission tools, cags eliminator, line pressures, shift points, rev limiters, fan temps, wot power enrichment, idle speeds vs temp, etc.
So far, the control of the idle pintle circuitry, tire size changes, and rear end gear ratio changes are the only parts I see missing.
So far, the control of the idle pintle circuitry, tire size changes, and rear end gear ratio changes are the only parts I see missing.
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,154
Likes: 1
From: Murphy TX
Cruise-In II Veteran
Re: Ls1Edit users AND Stve Cole programming. (nevrenuf)
So far, the control of the idle pintle circuitry, tire size changes, and rear end gear ratio changes are the only parts I see missing.
BTW, for those interested Carputing's feature list for LS1-Edit can be found here.
[Modified by ToplessTexan, 10:53 AM 2/8/2002]
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,598
Likes: 1
From: Plano TX
Re: Ls1Edit users AND Stve Cole programming. (ToplessTexan)
You can change gear ratios with the LS1 Edit. Although it's not needed for the speedo, which is read from the axle, not the drive shaft, you do need it for shift point adjustmens. I chose to make my shift point changes manually to match my driving style vs. applying a ratio against them through the gear change page. Again, because speed is read from the axle, you don't need to make changes for tire size to correct the speedo either. As I mentioned, you can either use the gear ratio change to apply a blanket percentage to the shift tables, or modify them manually as I did ignoring the gear ratio.
Corvette Stories
The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts
2027 Corvette vs The World: Every Model vs Closest Competitor
Joe Kucinski
10 Most Common Corvette Problems of the Last 20 Years!
Joe Kucinski
5 MOST and 5 LEAST Popular Corvette Model Years in History!
Joe Kucinski
2027 Corvette Buyer's Guide: Everything You Need to Know!
Joe Kucinski
10 Things C8 Corvette Owners Hate (But Won't Tell You)
Joe Kucinski
10 Best Corvettes Coming to Barrett-Jackson Palm Beach 2026!
Brett Foote
Every Corvette Grand Sport Explained! (C2, C4, C6, C7, & C8)
Joe Kucinski
Grand Sport & Grand Sport X Launch Alongside All-New 535hp LS6 V8!
Michael S. Palmer
5 Reasons Bad Drivers Crash & 5 Ways to Avoid a Costly Mistake!
Joe Kucinski
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,154
Likes: 1
From: Murphy TX
Cruise-In II Veteran
Re: Ls1Edit users AND Stve Cole programming. (K&B Motorsports)
Again, because speed is read from the axle, you don't need to make changes for tire size to correct the speedo either.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 830
Likes: 0
From: Pasadena MD
Re: Ls1Edit users AND Stve Cole programming. (Vettepartz)
Gentlemen, I believe this is a case of patented intellectual property. The programming of the major auto mfgr'rs is done by an industry protocol OBD.
The aftermarket PCM tuners are exercising they're right to use this protocol to produce different commands within the embedded software. They are not reselling the basic GM programming which may be protected by license or patent. We all have the right to make a better mouse trap.
The aftermarket PCM tuners are exercising they're right to use this protocol to produce different commands within the embedded software. They are not reselling the basic GM programming which may be protected by license or patent. We all have the right to make a better mouse trap.
Former Vendor
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 5,607
Likes: 1
From: Houston TX
Re: Ls1Edit users AND Stve Cole programming. (Vettepartz)
I find this thread interesting. Since GM wrote the code originally, aren't both Cole and Wright infringing on someone elses software when thay modify it? Or are they putting in a brand new COMPLETE program that they wrote? I think we paid for GM's software when we bought our cars. I don't want to sound like I am taking sides; just food for thought.
-Tuan
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,763
Likes: 24
From: Austin TX
Re: Ls1Edit users AND Stve Cole programming. (nevrenuf)
So far, the control of the idle pintle circuitry, tire size changes, and rear end gear ratio changes are the only parts I see missing.
Tire size needs to be there, but rear end gear ratio does not, the pcm reads the speed off the output of the rear end. The only reason the PL and others need to know it is to accurately scale shift points for Automatics.
Eric
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,763
Likes: 24
From: Austin TX
Re: Ls1Edit users AND Stve Cole programming. (jawski)
The programming inside your PCM is not industry standard, it is GM's own standard.
The connectivity between the PCM, BCM, and other modules is standardized hardware and protocol.
I dont know about you guys, but I never signed a EULA for the code running on the computers in my car, I must own it like every other nut and bolt attached to this thing. As far as GM caring about me modifying it, this has been going on so long I'm pretty sure GM doesnt care.
I'm also pretty sure they didnt patent it, they would have to expose too much information about how it all works.
Eric (another Linux guy) :cheers:
The connectivity between the PCM, BCM, and other modules is standardized hardware and protocol.
I dont know about you guys, but I never signed a EULA for the code running on the computers in my car, I must own it like every other nut and bolt attached to this thing. As far as GM caring about me modifying it, this has been going on so long I'm pretty sure GM doesnt care.
I'm also pretty sure they didnt patent it, they would have to expose too much information about how it all works.
Eric (another Linux guy) :cheers:
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 7,393
Likes: 7
From: Los Angeles CA
Re: Ls1Edit users AND Stve Cole programming. (66ImpalaLT1)
I dont know about you guys, but I never signed a EULA for the code running on the computers in my car, I must own it like every other nut and bolt attached to this thing. As far as GM caring about me modifying it, this has been going on so long I'm pretty sure GM doesnt care.
Not that sure about later years. Didn't they start wrapping them up for delivery last year or so?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 2,540
Likes: 2
From: Milwaukee WI
LS1Edit Guru
Cruise-In I Veteran
Cruise-In II Veteran
Cruise-In III Veteran
Re: Ls1Edit users AND Stve Cole programming. (K&B Motorsports)
I don't know if this is true of the "Unlimited PCM" version, but the "Locked PCM" version DOES NOT allow gear scaling. I have exchanged numerous emails with the software creator and he feels strongly that it is not something anyone needs to change so that feature will not be offered... per Ken Kelly..
He has replied to me that he does agree that tire scaling needs to be offered. I expect that we will see this added feature on the next release..
[Modified by nevrenuf, 5:43 PM 2/8/2002]
He has replied to me that he does agree that tire scaling needs to be offered. I expect that we will see this added feature on the next release..
[Modified by nevrenuf, 5:43 PM 2/8/2002]
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 7,758
Likes: 0
From: Fort Worth Texas
Cruise-In II Veteran
Cruise-In III Veteran
Re: Ls1Edit users AND Stve Cole programming. (nevrenuf)
I don't know if this is true of the "Unlimited PCM" version, but the "Locked PCM" version DOES NOT allow gear scaling. I have exchanged numerous emails with the software creator and he feels strongly that it is not something anyone needs to change so that feature will not be offered... per Ken Kelly..
He has replied to me that he does agree that tire scaling needs to be offered. I expect that we will see this added feature on the next release..
[Modified by nevrenuf, 5:43 PM 2/8/2002]
He has replied to me that he does agree that tire scaling needs to be offered. I expect that we will see this added feature on the next release..
[Modified by nevrenuf, 5:43 PM 2/8/2002]
http://www.ls1tech.com/ubb/cgi-bin/u...&f=23&t=000113
[Modified by kewlbrz, 6:12 PM 2/8/2002]
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,598
Likes: 1
From: Plano TX
Re: Ls1Edit users AND Stve Cole programming. (nevrenuf)
Ken has added some "clarifications" for the Corvettes, but gear scaling does effect the shift points on the car, and you can change the gear scaling on the tuner version. On the other hand as I noted earlier, my preference is to fine tune the shift points manually vs. using the gear change table.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 2,540
Likes: 2
From: Milwaukee WI
LS1Edit Guru
Cruise-In I Veteran
Cruise-In II Veteran
Cruise-In III Veteran
Re: Ls1Edit users AND Stve Cole programming. (kewlbrz)
Kewl... I own the locked version and it does not provide either gear or tire scaling for my 2000.... I have spoken to Ken and he indicated that tire and gear scaling were intentionally disabled and upon reflection, tire scaling would be added back in but gear scaling would not. Ken sees no reason to add gear scaling for Corvettes. He and I have exchanged numerous emails on the subject.. after awhile, I just dropped the subject.
The program does provide a wealth of features however. I am very pleased with it so far!
TG
The program does provide a wealth of features however. I am very pleased with it so far!
TG
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 6,429
Likes: 1
From: God's Replica
Re: Ls1Edit users AND Stve Cole programming. (ToplessTexan)
how much, so far would you estimate ls1edit can do as compared to p2??
I think intel55 was asking about potential limitations of the application software, not operating systems. :p: Specifically, what areas of the PCM code cannot be addressed through the LS1-Edit interface but can be done by those under NDA with GM or otherwise knowledgeable enough to use a hex editor effectively.
There have been lots of claims of this differential (this board and others) but I haven't seen any specific comments other than Tom's idle quality comments.
I think intel55 was asking about potential limitations of the application software, not operating systems. :p: Specifically, what areas of the PCM code cannot be addressed through the LS1-Edit interface but can be done by those under NDA with GM or otherwise knowledgeable enough to use a hex editor effectively.
There have been lots of claims of this differential (this board and others) but I haven't seen any specific comments other than Tom's idle quality comments.
Should be very interesting to see. Also if there is a difference between the tuner version and the locked.
We do need a PCM thread so we can all learn about this stuff :D :cheers: