Hi all, we where having a discussion on tires the other day with a friend and a topic came up that I have no real knowledge and it has to do with high perfomance tires for road rallies, road racing, autocross and handling in general.
As a drag guy I am familiar with people mixing sizes and manufacturers all the time, and it's common for people with regular transportation but what about road racing and handling competitions?
My friend says he thinks a different manufacturers thread pattern and tire technology might not be a good idea.
Examples might be like Good Years in back and Pirelli, Firestone or Michelins up front? Etc Etc?
Now I am not talking a drag radial to road performance mix, just road performance tires being mixed between brands.

Thanks

Carlos

 

Different tires have different stiffness and slip angle response. You could easily end up with a car that has nasty oversteer or pushes like a pig. Best to keep the tires the same model front and rear.

 

Different treads and tread wear numbers yield different performance and adhesion. The treadwear number measures durometer(softness or hardness) of the tire compound.

Since tire manufacturers do there own testing and labeling of durometer..even tires with same durometer can have diff adhesion thresholds..

With the advent and use of silca and long link carbon additives in newer and more advanced rubber compounds it even gets trickier.

Stick with the same brand, model and tread design all the way around..

BKV

 

Never mix tire brands. Use the same brand front and rear. Preferably the same age too.

For road racing many times different compounds ( softness) are used front and rear. with the softer tire in front for more high speed grip on turn in.

Drag or straight line 1/8 or 1/4 could be different.

 

Hi guys and thanks for the responses, they make sense.
The reason its different in drag racing is because number 1 we hopefully are not cornering!!!
On a rear drive car the front wheels are mainly for minimal steering movements and trying to lower resistance going down the track.
On Front wheel drive cars the slicks are up front and the rears only hold up the car and again minimal resistance...hopefully!!
Other then the profesional driving schools are there other sources of information for learning about road racing, proper entering and leaving curves, toe & heel, track courtesy, etc and in general learning how not to make *** of one self on the track?
Does the scca or other groups offer anything?

Thanks

Carlos

 

Offer for what ?

Most race classes do have some type of rules regarding tire use, Mostly tires need to be a DOT tire. Which really does not mean much. tire manufactures put the letters DOT on race slicks


some of my tires

 

AU N EGL,
Thanks for the pics and input. What I mean is does SCCA or other groups offer courses, tips or classes on road racing, track rules, tips on driving? Or are these just available thorugh the pro driving schools?
I have heard of track days are these the equivalent of test and tunes at the local dragstrip?
BTW I am replacing the factory Good Years super cars on MY 2002 z06 with GS D3's. I was able to get a pair of the 295/35-18 which wont be available any more, but the fronts will be 275/40-17 which are a little bit taller. The Firestone Wide Ovals which a lot of people seem to like I could have gotten the factory size but the Good Years seem to have a slight edge on speed rating and people seem to like them as well.
If I don't like them maybe next time I might try the Firestones well see.

Thanks

Carlos

 

It'd be hard to believe that you wouldn't like the D3s. I've been running them for many years now and I have no desire to try anything else. These tires are phenominal in every way - handling, quietness, longevity, dry and wet traction, and last but not least - made in the USA.

 

Dave68,
well thats good and what I am hoping for. Those where all good points and we took those in consideration, this is all new ground for us.

Carlos

 

YES

Carlos where do you live? and we can point you in the right direction.

First place is Corvette forum has a whole forum on Auto-Cross and Road Racing under Corvette General.

High Performance Drives Schools are the best place to start to learn about road racing. Good Safe invorinment but not fully open passing. you have your own in car instructor

 

AU N EGL,
we live outside of Buffalo, NY, I believe Watkins Glenn is about 90-100 miles or so. I have also heard of a track in Ohio that may not be super far not sure of the name.
I'll check out the forum for sure. I joined a while ago but without Vette would just check stuff here and there, mainly efi and tuning posts, so I have been finding out just how large this forum really is.
I also like the way people have been pretty friendly and helpful so far.

Carlos

 

Here you go take a look at this

http://www.nasagreatlakes.com/

also Beaver Run north of Pittsburgh

and

http://www.nasanortheast.com/

 

AU N EGL,
thanks a lot for the links, I'll check them out for sure!
Looking like next year is going to fun, and busy, both are good!!
I did notice checking the car out about the high temp gauge for the trans, and I had been thinking of adding a cooler for the rear end and trans. I think its Permacool that makes a dual cooler with a thermostat and fan as an option. What type of fan and oil pump do you guys run for road racing thats reliable. I have seen Motec I think and another name cant remember right now but I have never used one. I have read where some are louder then others and not as reliable. I would think that passive cooling only would not do much real cooling.

Thanks again.

Carlos

 

Setrab and use a manual switch, not a t-stat.

Stock oil pump is quite good. or a GM high Performance or Milling oil pump

trans cooler left - Oil cooler right


old pic

Plumbing for oil cooler


trinton pump for trans cooler


Switches in the ash tray area


3qt accu-sump under left front fender


Front breather not a stock bottom breather

 

AU N EGL,
looks like a real nice set up. I also use the push fittings and blue hose on my oil and fuel except for under the car I used #10 steel braided from tank to fuel pump. Yes I think Triton was the other name I heard. I have used the blue hose for some water lines as well its great stuff.

Carlos

 

I have to disagree a bit with some of the above responses. While its a good and safe plan to run same tire front and rear I haven't found it to be a absolute rule. Example: I track my car on average about 15 days a Year. This past year I was running a set of Hoosier Koni cup tires square and was getting too much oversteer. So I left the hoosiers on the front and put a backup set of Nitto NT-01 on the rear...oversteer solved. I also have different tires front and rear for the street. The point I'm making is: running same tires all around shouldn't be taken for gospel. You can actually do some fine tuning of the car's handling characteristics by mixing compounds (there are many other ways to tune suspension also).

Regarding getting out on the track and learning - there are a ton of opportunities available. Watkins Glen is real close to you. Also, Mosport in Ontario is pretty close. There are two tracks in New Jersey and three in Pennslyvania and a couple more in Ohio. Various car organizations and clubs put on Driver Education events as well as open lapping days at all these tracks. As mentioned, making frequent visits to the "Auto X and Road Racing" section of this site will clue you into many of these events, just keep an eye open for announcements. All areas of the country have SCCA clubs and most of them stage autocross events, another excellent opportunity to learn.

Regarding the oil coolers and other track prep. My advice would be to first attend a few events before you start modding to get a handle on it and see if you really like it and want to continue. Being around track junkies you will quickly learn which mods are needed for serious track work.

HTH, Brad

 

Brad,
thank you for the excellent points made on the tires and tuning as well as tracks. I agree about the using of tires that way for tuning, that thought crossed my mind. The thing I see is that I will start with Good Years all the way around because to tune like what your saying I should have a better understanding of what I have in the first place. Being new to this style of racing I should have more experience under my belt.
I know in my Anglia I ran Good Years, Hoosiers, and M/T's and they all felt very different and handled differently as well.
Brad I do thank you for your input, I apreciated and we'll keep it in mind for the future, what I might do if we like it would be to get a second set of wheels and tires so we can get a good feel for the differences in tires.
Also an excellent point about trying it out first before making mods,
I think that we'll come in time because right now I just want to enjoy the car and get a feel for diferent experiences aside from drag racing. I will still participate in drags but have another Anglia for that mainly.
Something I have been considering is that what atracted me so much to the Z06 is that it's not only cool but a balanced car that can do it all. If I start too move too much one way or the other I may loose some of that due to necesary mods for a particular event style.
Can any of you shed light on your experiences in that aspect?
I did a search for the Maxton mile and found a good post from 2007 with a CF member breaking the stock Z06 record with video included....very cool as well!
Thanks again

Carlos

 

I had Dunn tire install the GS D3's yesterday and man a live they made a difference! The factory tires had 5-6 /32's on them, but the new ones better handling and quiter ride is quite evident!
I thought the car was nice at the beginning but taking care of the smaller details is making the Z much more enjoyable!

The wife has the Z today! .......

 

Update on the GSD3's, last week I had an opportunity for a quick couple of shifts squirts with competitive driving on!..........
Some spinning on first and second but no fishtailing even though the temp was a cool 46F! The Z06 pulled nice, even and went straight!
Hopefully will get a good T & T here soon and we'll see what we turn!