Another Myth...BUSTED!

 

Live and learn!

 

This forum is filled with Urban legend, Old school thinking, Myths, and pure BS. In the early days of the C5 forum, everyone hung on every word about this car and its new technology's.. As the car became more affordable for the average kid ( young or old ), these myths and fantasies became a way for newbies to get their post count up.. anything and everything they ever heard from their grandfather has been placed in this forum as if it were fact. There are many here who actually follow all this crap, until some thing happens.. Many are willing to follow blindly those who are truly blind.. and many want to change things for the sake of change... Everyone seems to have no real automotive background yet they are always trying to dispel, all the engineering advancements that were put into this car.... the biggest of which is the type of oil and the interval in changing. I had a guy yesterday tell me he has wrist pin damage, and after careful scrutiny, found that he only drove the car about 2000 miles a year and he only changed his oil every other year. You would be surprised how many people do the craziest things, then ask for help, the biggest is not reading the manual... the maintains schedule is pretty straight forward, even a cave man can do it, but people insist on doing it cave man style.

 

People try to help with what ever knowledge they have and an exchange of ideas takes place. I dont think it's appropriate to slam people for trying to help.

The internet is what it is. It connects experts and amateurs alike.

I think this forum is also filled with experience and knowledge from all different walks of life and that can be priceless

 

Yeah, my grandfather always used to tell me " the road to hell is paved with good intentions" Trying to help someone that has a problem, when you don't know what you are talking about.....isn't helping.

Case in point: your statement about changing the lifters at 100k was plain silly. A novice will look at your statement, and because you have a "supporting vendor" avatar....they will accept that as truth....and consequently repeat it when they are "trying to help". .....and so the misinformation goes on...unless someone challenges these silly statements when they come up.

The way misinformation gets spread on this forum, I'd swear some of the members were women in disguise.

 

 

Wow, ok, seriously Bill & Lucky, I apologize. I'll go back and delete my posts.

I wasn't really even trying to offer advice so much as I just wanted to acknowledge that, yes, others have had the same issue/sound (lifters, not the belt ... seemed like he'd already diagnosed the latter). Misery loves company after all, and it always makes me feel better to know I don't have a unique problem. I used one product that noticeably diminished the sound, and I had planned on trying another based on what I now know was outdated information. That is all. Again, I apologize. Thank you for the information.

 

Well I wouldn't exactly call it silly.

We see these lifters fail all the time in performance applications and at $125 a set it's cheap insurance. Although for true performance applications we use a Morel instead.

Was I wrong yes I was but if you have the heads off your better off to swap them out if your at hi mileage.

I had it in my mind I was wrong and that's why I put the IIRC.. If I Recall Correctly which I did not. Would I crack the heads open just to swap the lifters at 100k no I would not and that wasn't what I meant in the first place either.

So no I don't feel a need to cut anyone down who is trying to help if they are wrong or not. There are plenty of people who will correct someone if they are wrong and thats what learning is all about. Do I know everything? No, not at all , do you? The only way you learn sometimes is by being wrong and getting corrected sometimes.
I didn't feel it would be a heartache, I guess I'll guard my words more, I've never been afraid to be wrong and I'm used to dealing with true hi performance applications.

For the 3rd time sorry for any confusion it may have caused.

 

Make sure you change out the points and double check the dwell angle every 15k miles. Make sure the rotor shows no wear and the contacts on the underside of the distributor cap are clean

 

Do you have any photos of these lifter failures that you see all the time? What parts on the lifter fails? Also, would you define "true performance applications".

Thanks

 

Being a vendor with a shop working with hi performance applications gives your voice more weight on this forum than the average Joe....sorry for the pressure....but it's true. Novice mechanics and DIYer's will take what you say as fact, because you work in the industry every day.

You don't have to "guard" your words. Fact check first before typing, and speak with confidence.

 

The wheels fall off and they do semi collapse sometimes as well, not sure but I'll try and get you a picture.

Stepped up camshafts and hi rpms would be a good start for the definition, sustained hi rpms. I'm sure you know the differences.

HKE is my builder ( one of the more respected builders by his peers you will find anywhere) and I pass along the information that he passes along to me. I personally had a lifter issue at 62k miles after a certain hard run with a lot of hills and cut backs. Semi collapsed is what I would call it. Cam and heads car, sustained hi rpms while racing on a mountain road.

Do these things happened to everyone? Of course not and I am in no way suggesting that.

I drive my cars hard, very very hard and like anyone else posting on here relate my experiences. I don't build engines and openly advertise where they come from. I relate whats related to me from that builder as well as my own experiences. Thats what a forum is. I'll take into account that I have vendor on my name as well and be less inclined to suggest. I didnt think it would cause this much of a conversation.

 

If you guys want to help I'm going to look at an 84 right now for $2400 that needs some work, can you offer me some help as to what to look for? tuned port efi I think is what it is, I'll post a thread in the c4 section looking for the same. I'm thinking about trading my unrestored in need of restoration 79 z28 for it, although I'd like to keep the Z.

 

99blancoss,

The stock hydraulic lifter is, in my opinion, one of the most reliable single components in the entire LSx engine. I can understand your thinking that as you stated “semi collapsed” lifter indicated a failed or failing lifter part. By the type of driving you described my bet is oil aeration is the root cause of the problem you were experiencing. If a lifter manages to be fed oil with air bubbles, it will no longer work as designed.

To your comment “I didn’t think it would cause this much of a conversation.” I hope you don’t think conversing this is a bad thing, I take it as a good thing.

 

Yea I agree about the aeration, I was worried about bearings after that drive as well to be honest.

No I dont think conversation is a bad thing either I just didnt want it to turn ugly for anyone... like myself

I did and do a lot of research on hydraulic lifters and keep reading on them all the time and sometimes things get mixed up in my head when I'm talking and thats all that happened.

 

I have received thousands, yes thousands of PM's asking for help in private after they followed someones good intentions here... there have been days when my 50 count private message box was filled in one day... I see alot of bad information being taught here, by many well wishers, but well wishes can be very costly to those who buy into them. And No I do not want more than a 50 count PM Box...Funny some of the types of PM's I get.... like I wish I never modded my car.... or the five guys who contact me about their C5 hitting 300,000 miles, and the secret to that is following the simple maintenance set out by the manufacturer.... Sure there are lots of guys willing to give up the long end, for some super modding and know going in that they are taking some of the life off their car in doing so, but as long as know there efforts may be costly down the road. Every one wants fast and loud, everyone wants an eye turner.. but many of those who want that are not willing to accept the consequences and ask for help, both publicly and privately most who screw up are too embarrassed to say so openly.. so they contact some of the great technical names found in this forum...
This isnt a rant, it's a fact..
We know that 95 % of the Corvettes on the road never see the track, most are profilers, lots of C5's that never see the track are modded, only because they want their car to be alittle more than stock..Too many people take a leap of faith listening to some of the people offering advice here. The one thing I always say to these member who have run into bad information and are paying the price, out of their pocket... is... Be careful who you listen too...

 

^^ Yea especially about piston slap



Ever seen the website:

http://www.pistonslap.com/


I'll post some if (because if I put it in my words I'll screw it up), but this is what I learned from an actual expert. Not what was posted previous in this thread, I dont like to jump on people as I can be wrong just as easily.

Around 1998, GM switched from a "Select Build" method of manufacturing and/or assembling engines to a "Net Build" method, in order to save money on manufacturing and/or assembly. In the Select Build process, pistons and cylinders are matched for size and fit. GM's new "Net Build" method of manufacturing and/or assembly, in contrast, assumes all pistons will fit equally well in all cylinders and does not allow for variations in the size of engine cylinders or pistons. The pistons of slightly varying size (all within spec) are not individually matched with the cylinders of slightly varying size (all within spec).



Excessive “piston slap” occurs because an automobile manufacturer (GM) designs and/or manufactures a defective engine in which the clearance between the piston and cylinder bore is too great. Essentially, the piston moves sideways and “slaps” or “knocks” hard against the cylinder bore and causes damage to the engine pistons and cylinders, excessive smoke emissions, excessive oil consumption, carbon buildup on piston heads, decreased mileage, and a loud and obnoxious “slapping” or “knocking” noise, all of which diminishes vehicle resale value in the trade.

http://www.pistonslap.com/whatisit.htm



Some new Vette owners forced GM to swap out their pistons in their new cars, this is all old information as well and is well known. Fbody owners were not given the same treatment


I agree the wrong oil and contaminants will cause damage but the famed piston slap is from a different issue.

 

The stockers are alright but yes they do fail in environments with more rpm and aftermarket cams that are more aggressive and that are sometimes not exactly in control. The usual mode of failure is the wheels falling off and pins falling out. See it at least every month on high rpm drag and open track stuff. Some of the customers are on this board. With the right parts they can work and we also use them a lot but if we have anything iffy or beat up we change them as cheap as the LS7s are.

With the more extreme stuff (higher lift and rpm and more spring pressure) we use the Morels as they can take more abuse without failing. Had some drift cars with LSx engines that were eating lifters regularly due to probably many bad things but the Morels could take it and not fall apart. Saying all that we have had smooth lobes and good parts and springs and light valves and spun LS7 lifters to 8000 rpm as well.

 

Racer7088,
So do I understand you use LS7 lifters? Why not LS9 lifters?

 

I just want to say wow! There appears to be a lot of you that have many years experiance and knowledge. Regardless of someone saying something that another person may or may not agree with is not unusual. Not being a mechanic, but knowing my way around a car fairly well sometimes isn't enough. I truely appreciate all your suggestions, rather they were right on target or even off a bit, the effort of trying to help was there and that is why I posted the question. I do believe if something said doesn't sound just right, that someone else will obviously challenge the question and apply their knowledge which in return will ultimately make sense. Thanks again to all!