balancer replacement questions
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 233
Likes: 1
From: Austin Texas
Gawd, now I'm really getting worried! My HB is a bit wobbly at idle and the (new) belt chirps some at higher rpm. I took the belt off and the ring "felt" solid but considering the forces involved that's probably not worth much. Chirp goes away with a drop of armorall so pulleys are ok. Bolt is tight. Am I on borrowed time?
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,882
Likes: 234
From: Bangkok, Thailand
I think I'm going to just do this as a pre-emptive strike regardless of parts appearing to be bad or not. Too many horror stories and I'd rather fix it before I get stuck or break something more expensive.
Thanks for all the input guys!
Thanks for all the input guys!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,449
Likes: 343
From: SC
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,275
Likes: 5
From: Lake Oswego, Near Portland Oregon
Don't take everything you read here as gospel. The rubber pulley ring going bad and causing a wobble isn't really going to "cause a lot of damage", slipping on the crank will. I've been wrenching a long time and NEVER seen an OEM balancer on an unmodified car fail. If you are doing some work that necessitates a balancer removal, by all means replace it with a new one.
That being said - a pinned under driven pulley is a nice mod.
That being said - a pinned under driven pulley is a nice mod.
One did on my car...at about the mid 120K miles....Ok, not REALLY modifed,,,just a high flow air filter and bridge, a ZO-6 catback and a nice tune...otherwise stock cam, heads, TB, cast headers, etc...the the pulley DID indeed fail..the rubber was a mess...
Last edited by FiberglassFan; Jan 14, 2011 at 06:44 AM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,275
Likes: 5
From: Lake Oswego, Near Portland Oregon
Don't take everything you read here as gospel. The rubber pulley ring going bad and causing a wobble isn't really going to "cause a lot of damage", slipping on the crank will. I've been wrenching a long time and NEVER seen an OEM balancer on an unmodified car fail. If you are doing some work that necessitates a balancer removal, by all means replace it with a new one.
That being said - a pinned under driven pulley is a nice mod.
That being said - a pinned under driven pulley is a nice mod.
One did on my car...at about the mid 120K miles....Ok, not REALLY modified,,,just a high flow air filter and bridge, a ZO-6 catback and a nice tune...otherwise stock cam, heads, TB, cast headers, etc...the stock pulley DID indeed fail..the rubber was a mess...I had it replaced with another stock unit.
Team Owner
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 87,298
Likes: 1,583
From: Western NY
FYI - The possibility of the balancer "seperating" is not the main concern. I have never seen a LS1 balancer seperate. The main issue is that the balancer can slip on the crank snout, causing damage to the crank itself. Whatever balancer you choose, it would be a good idea to pin it.
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 233
Likes: 1
From: Austin Texas
My OEM H.B. is about to let go and I plan to do the job myself.
1) I'd like to pin the crank but I'm going to use the Powerbond OEM replacement (PB1117N). None of the OEM style HB's have a keyway right?
2) If the Balancer is an interference fit how hot should the hub be during removal/replacement. I've heard 150-200F will persuade them off/on in other threads.
3) I know I'll need 24mm socket to remove/replace H.B. bolt. But nowhere have I seen anyone mention the thread size for the fastener. Anyone know? I'd like to use all-thread and a nut to press the new H.B. on to insure I don't overstress the crank threads.
1) I'd like to pin the crank but I'm going to use the Powerbond OEM replacement (PB1117N). None of the OEM style HB's have a keyway right?
2) If the Balancer is an interference fit how hot should the hub be during removal/replacement. I've heard 150-200F will persuade them off/on in other threads.
3) I know I'll need 24mm socket to remove/replace H.B. bolt. But nowhere have I seen anyone mention the thread size for the fastener. Anyone know? I'd like to use all-thread and a nut to press the new H.B. on to insure I don't overstress the crank threads.
Last edited by Cratecruncher; Jan 14, 2011 at 01:11 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 87,298
Likes: 1,583
From: Western NY
My OEM H.B. is about to let go and I plan to do the job myself.
1) I'd like to pin the crank but I'm going to use the Powerbond OEM replacement (PB1117N). None of the OEM style HB's have a keyway right?
2) If the Balancer is an interference fit how hot should the hub be during removal/replacement. I've heard 150-200F will persuade them off/on in other threads.
3) I know I'll need 24mm socket to remove/replace H.B. bolt. But nowhere have I seen anyone mention the thread size for the fastener. Anyone know? I'd like to use all-thread and a nut to press the new H.B. on to insure I don't overstress the crank threads.
1) I'd like to pin the crank but I'm going to use the Powerbond OEM replacement (PB1117N). None of the OEM style HB's have a keyway right?
2) If the Balancer is an interference fit how hot should the hub be during removal/replacement. I've heard 150-200F will persuade them off/on in other threads.
3) I know I'll need 24mm socket to remove/replace H.B. bolt. But nowhere have I seen anyone mention the thread size for the fastener. Anyone know? I'd like to use all-thread and a nut to press the new H.B. on to insure I don't overstress the crank threads.
I can't help you with the thread pitch/diameter, but if you can determine it, let me make a suggestion. Instead of the all thread bolt, obtain a 6-7" log piece of threaded rod, and lock 2 hex nuts together on one end. Then thread another hex nut about half way up the rod, followed by a few flat washers.
Get the balancer loosely in place, thread the rod into the crank snout, use the locked hex nuts to hold the rod, and with a second wrench, turn the single nut and washers, and use them to press the damper in place.
That's a 'poor boy' damper installer....Works every time!
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Team Owner
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 22,025
Likes: 192
From: At the beach in little Rhody
See below for answers. I made this tool with 300mm threaded rod and some nuts & washers. Have used it numerous times and it works like a charm. During removal, don't follow Ls1howto.com, recipe for disaster and don't use the old bolt to push on for removal, use a socket or something the will apply the force to the end of the crank, not the threads.
My OEM H.B. is about to let go and I plan to do the job myself.
1) I'd like to pin the crank but I'm going to use the Powerbond OEM replacement (PB1117N). None of the OEM style HB's have a keyway right?
ATI does, and if pinning the Powerbond you will need the ATI pinning kit.
2) If the Balancer is an interference fit how hot should the hub be during removal/replacement. I've heard 150-200F will persuade them off/on in other threads.
I would not heat it, this is just a poor work around for not having proper tools.
3) I know I'll need 24mm socket to remove/replace H.B. bolt. But nowhere have I seen anyone mention the thread size for the fastener. Anyone know? I'd like to use all-thread and a nut to press the new H.B. on to insure I don't overstress the crank threads.
M16X2mm
1) I'd like to pin the crank but I'm going to use the Powerbond OEM replacement (PB1117N). None of the OEM style HB's have a keyway right?
ATI does, and if pinning the Powerbond you will need the ATI pinning kit.
2) If the Balancer is an interference fit how hot should the hub be during removal/replacement. I've heard 150-200F will persuade them off/on in other threads.
I would not heat it, this is just a poor work around for not having proper tools.
3) I know I'll need 24mm socket to remove/replace H.B. bolt. But nowhere have I seen anyone mention the thread size for the fastener. Anyone know? I'd like to use all-thread and a nut to press the new H.B. on to insure I don't overstress the crank threads.
M16X2mm
Last edited by vettenuts; Jan 14, 2011 at 04:54 PM.
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 233
Likes: 1
From: Austin Texas
Thanks for the info guys. It's exactly what I needed. I've been running around town gathering stuff up for this project. I'll visit our local fastener specialists on Monday and ask them to build up a "poorboy" for me!
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 233
Likes: 1
From: Austin Texas
I purchased a front timing cover/crank seal when I bought my new H.B. bolt at the dealer. Mine doesn't leak but I figured while I'm in there.... Is it possible to r&r the seal without removing the timing cover & water pump from the engine?
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 19,342
Likes: 1,123
From: Dyer, IN
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 233
Likes: 1
From: Austin Texas
I started replacing my harmonic balancer this morning. I got my steering rack out of the way with only moderate use of profanity and have the p/s and water pumps off. Now onto the H/B.
Since my car is a '99 M6 I was under the impression from reading at least a dozen DIY threads here and on other websites that all I have to do is put the car in 6th gear, chock the wheels and start pulling. Well after doing that it feels like I'm pulling on a rubber band. No way will I ever get 240 lb-ft of torque delivered to that bolt! Not only that but I could hear the springs in my pressure plate groan and twang as well. Now my car is taken apart and I'm stopped dead. In all those DIY threads did I miss something???? I'm currently trying to jury-rig a strap wrench with a belt and pipe to fit around the H/B. Every strap wrench available locally only fits up to 5" dia and the H/B is 7.5". Are there any other work-arounds? Has anyone tried restraining the flywheel without the special GM tool? Has anyone even run into this problem or is my car just "special".
Since my car is a '99 M6 I was under the impression from reading at least a dozen DIY threads here and on other websites that all I have to do is put the car in 6th gear, chock the wheels and start pulling. Well after doing that it feels like I'm pulling on a rubber band. No way will I ever get 240 lb-ft of torque delivered to that bolt! Not only that but I could hear the springs in my pressure plate groan and twang as well. Now my car is taken apart and I'm stopped dead. In all those DIY threads did I miss something???? I'm currently trying to jury-rig a strap wrench with a belt and pipe to fit around the H/B. Every strap wrench available locally only fits up to 5" dia and the H/B is 7.5". Are there any other work-arounds? Has anyone tried restraining the flywheel without the special GM tool? Has anyone even run into this problem or is my car just "special".
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,722
Likes: 138
From: Florida
St. Jude Donor '09
I started replacing my harmonic balancer this morning. I got my steering rack out of the way with only moderate use of profanity and have the p/s and water pumps off. Now onto the H/B.
Since my car is a '99 M6 I was under the impression from reading at least a dozen DIY threads here and on other websites that all I have to do is put the car in 6th gear, chock the wheels and start pulling. Well after doing that it feels like I'm pulling on a rubber band. No way will I ever get 240 lb-ft of torque delivered to that bolt! Not only that but I could hear the springs in my pressure plate groan and twang as well. Now my car is taken apart and I'm stopped dead. In all those DIY threads did I miss something???? I'm currently trying to jury-rig a strap wrench with a belt and pipe to fit around the H/B. Every strap wrench available locally only fits up to 5" dia and the H/B is 7.5". Are there any other work-arounds? Has anyone tried restraining the flywheel without the special GM tool? Has anyone even run into this problem or is my car just "special".
Since my car is a '99 M6 I was under the impression from reading at least a dozen DIY threads here and on other websites that all I have to do is put the car in 6th gear, chock the wheels and start pulling. Well after doing that it feels like I'm pulling on a rubber band. No way will I ever get 240 lb-ft of torque delivered to that bolt! Not only that but I could hear the springs in my pressure plate groan and twang as well. Now my car is taken apart and I'm stopped dead. In all those DIY threads did I miss something???? I'm currently trying to jury-rig a strap wrench with a belt and pipe to fit around the H/B. Every strap wrench available locally only fits up to 5" dia and the H/B is 7.5". Are there any other work-arounds? Has anyone tried restraining the flywheel without the special GM tool? Has anyone even run into this problem or is my car just "special".
So much for the web based DIY instructions.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 22,025
Likes: 192
From: At the beach in little Rhody
If you are removing, there is a lot of windup in the drive train when you start pulling that bolt. You need to set your wrench low enough to be able to overcome the windup and loosen the bolt. If you can't, then get the correct flywheel lock to hold the flywheel in position.
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 233
Likes: 1
From: Austin Texas
If you are removing, there is a lot of windup in the drive train when you start pulling that bolt. You need to set your wrench low enough to be able to overcome the windup and loosen the bolt. If you can't, then get the correct flywheel lock to hold the flywheel in position.
. Even if I were to get the original bolt loosened without progressive drivetrain damage there is no way to seat the new balancer or torque the new bolt accurately. While a modified strap wrench would likely work I don't have a helper or the muscle to hold both at the same time. A flywheel lock was ordered yesterday. I'll likely use it once and resell it on eBay. Lesson learned: moving on.....
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 8,228
Likes: 1
From: WLA/WEHO CA
I hear ATI is the hot setup it's used in NASCAR as well as other professional race car application with that said if engineers and crew chiefs use them on their professional race engines I would use it on mine.
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,722
Likes: 138
From: Florida
St. Jude Donor '09
Wow, I have a unique drivetrain and now you tell me I have a unique one-of-a-kind Factory Service Manual too! Page 6-9, "Crankshaft Balancer Bolt "Installation Pass-to Ensure the Balancer is Completely Installed." 240 lb ft. I'm going to put that baby on eBay as a collectors item! (Ipuig, I'm just bustin' your chops for correcting me. I agree with the rest of your comment.)
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,798
Likes: 8
From: It's true money can't buy happiness, but it is more comfortable crying in a Corvette than on a bicyc
St. Jude Donor '13
All you needed was a fly wheel tuner. Hard to explain what it looks like. Kinda like a big screw driver with a steel half moon loop. Since you've already ordered a special tool it's not much help.
Back in the day I used to spin HB's on 454's all the time. I'll agree GM could use a higher quality manufacturer. Trust me, I've been involved with supplying some of the major vendors to GM with raw product, and what we ship falls short on quality. Then again it's not just a GM issue.
Back in the day I used to spin HB's on 454's all the time. I'll agree GM could use a higher quality manufacturer. Trust me, I've been involved with supplying some of the major vendors to GM with raw product, and what we ship falls short on quality. Then again it's not just a GM issue.