Active handling really getting goofy now...
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 329
Likes: 1
From: Bowie Texas
Active handling really getting goofy now...
Ever since I bought my 2004 coupe the active handling has made my cruise cut off. Sometimes it would take 10 minutes sometimes 30. I would see the active handling message flash on then cruise disengaged would flash. After it did it once it would do it again in a mile or two. It never set any codes and never applied any brake. This morning I let my son drive it and within 10 miles it flashed the active handling message and applied one of the brakes for a second. I turned off the ah and everything was fine.
I later drove it about 70 miles and it ran on cruise all the way. On the way back 8 hours later it ran about 30 minutes on cruise then disengaged and when it did I felt it brake a little. I waited until I was nearly home and tried it again and it hit one of the brakes hard. When I got home I pulled the codes and there were none.
I have cleaned the ground packs by the radiator (they looked ok except for paint on the studs) but haven't had time to go any further. Does this sound like a ground, a swps or something else? It has been suggested that it is the swps and if so I don't mind replacing it. I just don't want to go to all that work and it really be a ground or something.
I later drove it about 70 miles and it ran on cruise all the way. On the way back 8 hours later it ran about 30 minutes on cruise then disengaged and when it did I felt it brake a little. I waited until I was nearly home and tried it again and it hit one of the brakes hard. When I got home I pulled the codes and there were none.
I have cleaned the ground packs by the radiator (they looked ok except for paint on the studs) but haven't had time to go any further. Does this sound like a ground, a swps or something else? It has been suggested that it is the swps and if so I don't mind replacing it. I just don't want to go to all that work and it really be a ground or something.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,962
Likes: 29
From: Van Buren Arkansas
Wounded Warrior Escort '11
I can't imagine there not being any codes. Are you sure you're reading all systems voa the DIC and not using just a code reader? The likely suspects are either the steering wheel position sensor or a wheel speed sensor. In the case of the wheel speed sensors, probably a bad or dirty connection....check and verify each.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 19,384
Likes: 87
From: Horncastle Lincolnshire, England
2023 C5 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
you must have a codeI have a SWPS that needs replacing and I get a C1287 when it drops out. If you watch the DIC when the AH starts to play up you'll see an active handling caption. At that point, the cruise will trip out. Once you get a full failure with the service active handling et al, and you have the little yellow skidding car on the IPC, you can reengage the cruise and it will stay in.
The cruise trip is a consequence of the AH problem not a problem in its own right.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 329
Likes: 1
From: Bowie Texas
I am using the DIC....
I can't imagine there not being any codes. Are you sure you're reading all systems voa the DIC and not using just a code reader? The likely suspects are either the steering wheel position sensor or a wheel speed sensor. In the case of the wheel speed sensors, probably a bad or dirty connection....check and verify each.
When the car acts up the DIC flashes active handling then cruise disengaged. I usually just turn the AC off, hit resume on the cruise and everything is good. I don't want to drive it all the time with the AC turned off but its getting spooky to drive now that it is applying one of the brakes.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 329
Likes: 1
From: Bowie Texas
Ok
Thanks for the help I hope I can find the problem.
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Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 329
Likes: 1
From: Bowie Texas
It has ...
P245/45ZR17 89W Nitto Extreme front
P275/40ZR18 103W Nitto Extreme on the rear
They are fairly new as far as miles go but I think they were put on before the previous owner. He said the dealer took off the run flats and put these on.
Could that be the problem?
The data logger sounds like a good idea, I live about a hour from Wichita Falls and a little more from Fort Worth. Is there someone there that can do that? I don't know if anyone at our small town dealer can or not. They are more into fixing pickups and suv's.
P275/40ZR18 103W Nitto Extreme on the rear
They are fairly new as far as miles go but I think they were put on before the previous owner. He said the dealer took off the run flats and put these on.
Could that be the problem?
The data logger sounds like a good idea, I live about a hour from Wichita Falls and a little more from Fort Worth. Is there someone there that can do that? I don't know if anyone at our small town dealer can or not. They are more into fixing pickups and suv's.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
Your getting some great advice.
Hows your alignment? Is your steering wheel DEAD NUTS CENTERED when you driving straight down a level road??
Annalignment issue can trigger AH as the wheel is off center and the car is going straight. The EBTCM thinks it needs to correct by engaging AH to get the car to go in the direction of the off centered wheel.
BC
Hows your alignment? Is your steering wheel DEAD NUTS CENTERED when you driving straight down a level road??
Annalignment issue can trigger AH as the wheel is off center and the car is going straight. The EBTCM thinks it needs to correct by engaging AH to get the car to go in the direction of the off centered wheel.
BC
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 329
Likes: 1
From: Bowie Texas
Your getting some great advice.
Hows your alignment? Is your steering wheel DEAD NUTS CENTERED when you driving straight down a level road??
Annalignment issue can trigger AH as the wheel is off center and the car is going straight. The EBTCM thinks it needs to correct by engaging AH to get the car to go in the direction of the off centered wheel.
BC
Hows your alignment? Is your steering wheel DEAD NUTS CENTERED when you driving straight down a level road??
Annalignment issue can trigger AH as the wheel is off center and the car is going straight. The EBTCM thinks it needs to correct by engaging AH to get the car to go in the direction of the off centered wheel.
BC
As far as alignment goes it drives like a dream, no pulls and tire wear seems non existent so far. Thanks for all the help everyone
This place is awesome. 
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 329
Likes: 1
From: Bowie Texas
Ok drove the car and the steering wheel is centered, I thought it was but just to make sure. The wheel speed sensors seem to work right since the traction control does its thing just like its supposed to. I will jack it up and check all the connections though. I looked under the passenger seat and there is a leather bag with something in it tie wrapped to the bottom of the seat with wires coming out of it. Is that the yaw sensor? No sign of water damage that I could see.
We have been working 7 days a week so I don't have much project time right now. I will have to nibble on this a little at a time.
We have been working 7 days a week so I don't have much project time right now. I will have to nibble on this a little at a time.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
Ok drove the car and the steering wheel is centered, I thought it was but just to make sure. The wheel speed sensors seem to work right since the traction control does its thing just like its supposed to. I will jack it up and check all the connections though. I looked under the passenger seat and there is a leather bag with something in it tie wrapped to the bottom of the seat with wires coming out of it. Is that the yaw sensor? No sign of water damage that I could see.
We have been working 7 days a week so I don't have much project time right now. I will have to nibble on this a little at a time.
We have been working 7 days a week so I don't have much project time right now. I will have to nibble on this a little at a time.
BC
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 329
Likes: 1
From: Bowie Texas
A couple of new clues. I pulled the front wheels and checked the wheel speed sensors. The connectors looked fine but I cleaned them and put a little dielectric grease on them. Cleaned the grounds under the battery and the same one on the drivers side. Cleaned all the udders while I was at it.
Went and drove the car but tried something different. I "wiggled" the wheel like I was making small corrections and the active handling activated in a very short distance, not after 30minutes to a hour like it usually does. Still no codes. I am thinking maybe my swps is going south and is too sensitive but still within range. Does that make sense or should I keep looking?
Went and drove the car but tried something different. I "wiggled" the wheel like I was making small corrections and the active handling activated in a very short distance, not after 30minutes to a hour like it usually does. Still no codes. I am thinking maybe my swps is going south and is too sensitive but still within range. Does that make sense or should I keep looking?
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
A couple of new clues. I pulled the front wheels and checked the wheel speed sensors. The connectors looked fine but I cleaned them and put a little dielectric grease on them. Cleaned the grounds under the battery and the same one on the drivers side. Cleaned all the udders while I was at it.
Went and drove the car but tried something different. I "wiggled" the wheel like I was making small corrections and the active handling activated in a very short distance, not after 30minutes to a hour like it usually does. Still no codes. I am thinking maybe my swps is going south and is too sensitive but still within range. Does that make sense or should I keep looking?
Went and drove the car but tried something different. I "wiggled" the wheel like I was making small corrections and the active handling activated in a very short distance, not after 30minutes to a hour like it usually does. Still no codes. I am thinking maybe my swps is going south and is too sensitive but still within range. Does that make sense or should I keep looking?
Dielectric Grease SHOULD NOT put in electrical connections. Especially very low voltage signal circuits. If your worried about corrosion, use a purpose made anti corrosion compound.
Try reading the DTCs IMMEDIATELY using the DIC when the AH acts up. Don't switch off the ignition. Just read the codes.
YES,, the SWPS could be bad but,, there are several other things that can cause the issue. The SWPS is the component susceptible to wear.
Racer
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 279
Likes: 4
From: Cincinnati OH
The SWPS connects to the EBTCM through C102 which is a 20pin connector in the RH sider rear engine bay wire colors LT GRN, LT BLU, LT BLU.
If you're familiar/have acces to one, using an oscilloscope or datalogging these (and/or other) signals may help to diagnose it rather than guessing (which is what the stealership may do while charging you for all of the wrongly guessed parts
). Not sure if a datalogger such as this would work...
http://www.plxkiwi.com/kiwiwifi/
Related modules/sensors/signals that look to be involved with automatic brake control:
Electronic Brake Traction Control Module
Electronic Suspension Control Module
Powertrain Control Module
Instrument Cluster
Steering Wheel Positioning Sensor
Wheel Speed Sensors
Lateral Accelerometer
Yaw Rate Sensor
Perhaps someone could POST UP THE WIRING CHARTS related to the antilock brake system (i have paper manuals).
Last edited by lespaulr0cker; Jul 24, 2011 at 06:30 PM. Reason: more info...
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 329
Likes: 1
From: Bowie Texas
New clue...
How are you and when are you reading the DTCs"
Dielectric Grease SHOULD NOT put in electrical connections. Especially very low voltage signal circuits. If your worried about corrosion, use a purpose made anti corrosion compound.
My mistake I thought dielectric grease was a conductor. I have some ACF50 would that be the right thing to use?
Try reading the DTCs IMMEDIATELY using the DIC when the AH acts up. Don't switch off the ignition. Just read the codes.
I have read them both ways but will try to read them without shutting off the key from now on.
YES,, the SWPS could be bad but,, there are several other things that can cause the issue. The SWPS is the component susceptible to wear.
Dielectric Grease SHOULD NOT put in electrical connections. Especially very low voltage signal circuits. If your worried about corrosion, use a purpose made anti corrosion compound.
My mistake I thought dielectric grease was a conductor. I have some ACF50 would that be the right thing to use?
Try reading the DTCs IMMEDIATELY using the DIC when the AH acts up. Don't switch off the ignition. Just read the codes.
I have read them both ways but will try to read them without shutting off the key from now on.
YES,, the SWPS could be bad but,, there are several other things that can cause the issue. The SWPS is the component susceptible to wear.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 329
Likes: 1
From: Bowie Texas
From what I can tell in the manual/drawings, the SWPS looks to be a 2 phase encoder and a 0~5V analog output device rolled into one unit. Intermitancy in this or any of it's signal wiring connections could deceive the EBTCM into thinking the steering wheel was agressively jerked causing the system re-act accordingly without generating a code.
The SWPS connects to the EBTCM through C102 which is a 20pin connector in the RH sider rear engine bay wire colors LT GRN, LT BLU, LT BLU.
If you're familiar/have acces to one, using an oscilloscope or datalogging these (and/or other) signals may help to diagnose it rather than guessing (which is what the stealership may do while charging you for all of the wrongly guessed parts).
Not sure if a datalogger such as this would work...
http://www.plxkiwi.com/kiwiwifi/
Related modules/sensors/signals that look to be involved with automatic brake control:
Electronic Brake Traction Control Module
Electronic Suspension Control Module
Powertrain Control Module
Instrument Cluster
Steering Wheel Positioning Sensor
Wheel Speed Sensors
Lateral Accelerometer
Yaw Rate Sensor
Perhaps someone could POST UP THE WIRING CHARTS related to the antilock brake system (i have paper manuals).
The SWPS connects to the EBTCM through C102 which is a 20pin connector in the RH sider rear engine bay wire colors LT GRN, LT BLU, LT BLU.
If you're familiar/have acces to one, using an oscilloscope or datalogging these (and/or other) signals may help to diagnose it rather than guessing (which is what the stealership may do while charging you for all of the wrongly guessed parts
). Not sure if a datalogger such as this would work...
http://www.plxkiwi.com/kiwiwifi/
Related modules/sensors/signals that look to be involved with automatic brake control:
Electronic Brake Traction Control Module
Electronic Suspension Control Module
Powertrain Control Module
Instrument Cluster
Steering Wheel Positioning Sensor
Wheel Speed Sensors
Lateral Accelerometer
Yaw Rate Sensor
Perhaps someone could POST UP THE WIRING CHARTS related to the antilock brake system (i have paper manuals).
Racer
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 279
Likes: 4
From: Cincinnati OH
I don't have access to a data logger but the device you posted the link to looks interesting. I do have a android phone not a I-phone but it seems there is one available for either one. Taking the car to the dealer would be a last resort. I like to fix things myself if possible. I did get a code for the first time C1287H as mentioned in my previous message.
If it were me, I'd disconnect C102 and have a look at the terminals just to make sure nothing is wrong there. If all looks okay, reconnect and try it one more time. If the problem persists, then I would replace the SWPS.