Valve spring replacement question
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 1,574
Likes: 2
From: Orlando FL
Valve spring replacement question
I replaced my valve springs, push rods, valve seals, and retainers about a few months ago. All has gone pretty well so far.
The only issue I'm getting is a little bit of intermittent whitish/grey smoke from the exhaust.
It only happens after I've been driving around for a while. I stop at a red light or stop sign, let the car idle and go to accelerate and "puff" i see a small smoke cloud in my rear view mirror.
The only thing I can think is that one of the valve seals didn't properly seat all the way??
Any ideas out there?
Car isn't a DD anymore so I haven't been driving it much due to the smoke screen.
Thanks
Tom
The only issue I'm getting is a little bit of intermittent whitish/grey smoke from the exhaust.
It only happens after I've been driving around for a while. I stop at a red light or stop sign, let the car idle and go to accelerate and "puff" i see a small smoke cloud in my rear view mirror.
The only thing I can think is that one of the valve seals didn't properly seat all the way??
Any ideas out there?
Car isn't a DD anymore so I haven't been driving it much due to the smoke screen.
Thanks
Tom
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,119
Likes: 156
From: Huntington tx
Need more info,
Mileage?
Do you run the snot out of it?
I was in the same boat...smoke on start up, then later smoke while idling.
Guessing the valve guides are completely wore out, I got about 100,000 miles and drive it hard on occassion. Now I'm going to tear it down and check it.
Mileage?
Do you run the snot out of it?
I was in the same boat...smoke on start up, then later smoke while idling.
Guessing the valve guides are completely wore out, I got about 100,000 miles and drive it hard on occassion. Now I'm going to tear it down and check it.
Tech Contributor
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,843
Likes: 16
From: Howell Michigan
St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11
If the car didn't have the problem before the spring change I doubt you have any issue with valve guides. Where did the valve seals come from and what brand? What type springs and what style and brand of retainers? Some of the aftermarket retainers can impact the top of the valve seals destroying them.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 1,574
Likes: 2
From: Orlando FL
I purchaced the following package from Hinson Supercars in Alabama:
-Patriot Performance Gold .650" Dual Spring Kit
-Comp Cams 5/16" Magnum Chromoly Pushrods
The Dual Spring Kit came with new springs, retainers, locks, and seals.
During intillation I noticed what I thought were a few oddities.
1. The OEM valve seals were 1 piece and the new ones were 2 piece.
2. The OEM were colored grey and brown for intake and exhaust and the new ones were all (x16) brown.
I called the customer support line to see if there was an issue with my above concerns and was told no, all was ok.
I did not tap down the valve seal with a large socket (as I have now seen in some other youtube videos) during instillation.
It seems like I have the simptoms of a bad valve seal but there is just about 1000 miles on these new parts. The smoking started gradually a few weeks after did the valve job.
I hope I got all the part terminology correct.
Thanks for helping me diagnose this.
-Patriot Performance Gold .650" Dual Spring Kit
-Comp Cams 5/16" Magnum Chromoly Pushrods
The Dual Spring Kit came with new springs, retainers, locks, and seals.
During intillation I noticed what I thought were a few oddities.
1. The OEM valve seals were 1 piece and the new ones were 2 piece.
2. The OEM were colored grey and brown for intake and exhaust and the new ones were all (x16) brown.
I called the customer support line to see if there was an issue with my above concerns and was told no, all was ok.
I did not tap down the valve seal with a large socket (as I have now seen in some other youtube videos) during instillation.
It seems like I have the simptoms of a bad valve seal but there is just about 1000 miles on these new parts. The smoking started gradually a few weeks after did the valve job.
I hope I got all the part terminology correct.
Thanks for helping me diagnose this.
Last edited by dragon84; Jan 2, 2012 at 09:28 AM.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 1,574
Likes: 2
From: Orlando FL
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,955
Likes: 161
From: PNW
The guide seals that came in your kit with the double springs probably did not have a built in metal seat ... instead you probably got separate spring seat washers in the kit? Or did this double spring kit allow use of the OEM guide seal?
Last edited by ZeeOSix; Jan 2, 2012 at 02:50 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,955
Likes: 161
From: PNW
So there were no spring seats in the kit ... or did the kit allow use of the OEM 1 piece guide seals? Most dual spring kits don't because of the physical space eaten up by the inner spring.
Last edited by ZeeOSix; Jan 2, 2012 at 02:51 AM.
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Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,816
Likes: 132
From: Plano TX
Dual springs on a stock cam?
Hopefully not.. dual springs on a stock cam can cause excessive lobe wear on the stock camshaft causing major issues.. I guess its one way of grinding down an Ls6 cam to a Ls1 cam. Yikes! Who recomended this if you do have the stock Ls6 cam?? Not your fault at all, just bad advice fromm your shop.. Very common bad recomendation, if that makes sense..This info comes from Anthony at LG Motorsports
Hope all turns out well!
Hopefully not.. dual springs on a stock cam can cause excessive lobe wear on the stock camshaft causing major issues.. I guess its one way of grinding down an Ls6 cam to a Ls1 cam. Yikes! Who recomended this if you do have the stock Ls6 cam?? Not your fault at all, just bad advice fromm your shop.. Very common bad recomendation, if that makes sense..This info comes from Anthony at LG Motorsports Hope all turns out well!
Last edited by David426; Jan 2, 2012 at 03:35 AM.
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 4,446
Likes: 408
From: Portland OR
Dual springs on a stock cam? Hopefully not.. dual springs on a stock cam can cause excessive lobe wear on the stock camshaft causing major issues.. I guess its one way of grinding down an Ls6 cam to a Ls1 cam. Yikes! Who recomended this if you do have the stock Ls6 cam?? Not your fault at all, just bad advice fromm your shop.. Very common bad recomendation, if that makes sense..This info comes from Anthony at LG Motorsports Hope all turns out well!
Hopefully not.. dual springs on a stock cam can cause excessive lobe wear on the stock camshaft causing major issues.. I guess its one way of grinding down an Ls6 cam to a Ls1 cam. Yikes! Who recomended this if you do have the stock Ls6 cam?? Not your fault at all, just bad advice fromm your shop.. Very common bad recomendation, if that makes sense..This info comes from Anthony at LG Motorsports Hope all turns out well!
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 22,025
Likes: 192
From: At the beach in little Rhody
The two piece setup needs to be properly seated. The service manual, which covers both, shows installation by tapping down with a special tool and then measuring to ensure they are correctly seated. I had this issue with aftermarket seals on an old Nissan, and the only fix I found after two sets of aftermarket with stock Nissan seals. The would come off the guide and ride up and down with the valves allowing oil to pass through the guide.
Pull the valve covers and check to see if the seals are still correctly positioned.
Pull the valve covers and check to see if the seals are still correctly positioned.
Tech Contributor
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,843
Likes: 16
From: Howell Michigan
St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11
Time to pull the covers. If the car is stock using OEM parts would have been the better choice in my opinion. The replacement springs that come from GM will be blue in color. The blue springs were originally designed for the LS9. They have been tested with and are the standard now on the LS1, LS3, LS6, and the LS9. They are a very high quality spring at a reasonable price. The stock one piece seal that includes the spring seat are hard to beat. Sorry to here about your issues.
The good news, it shouldn't take too much to correct the problem now you have a good idea what it is.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 1,574
Likes: 2
From: Orlando FL
I definately did not tap or measure the 2 piece seals.
The two piece setup needs to be properly seated. The service manual, which covers both, shows installation by tapping down with a special tool and then measuring to ensure they are correctly seated. I had this issue with aftermarket seals on an old Nissan, and the only fix I found after two sets of aftermarket with stock Nissan seals. The would come off the guide and ride up and down with the valves allowing oil to pass through the guide.
Pull the valve covers and check to see if the seals are still correctly positioned.
Pull the valve covers and check to see if the seals are still correctly positioned.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 1,574
Likes: 2
From: Orlando FL
He was using OEM valve seals that were 1 piece.
Was the guy in the video using the same guide seals you used, or was he installing OEM seals? The OEM guide seals have a built in metal base that acts as the spring seat, and those would typically be installed with a deep socket and a light tap.
The guide seals that came in your kit with the double springs probably did not have a built in metal seat ... instead you probably got separate spring seat washers in the kit? Or did this double spring kit allow use of the OEM guide seal?
The guide seals that came in your kit with the double springs probably did not have a built in metal seat ... instead you probably got separate spring seat washers in the kit? Or did this double spring kit allow use of the OEM guide seal?
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
From: Palm Harbor Fl
The seals for the Patriot Dual Golds need to be tapped down and firmly seated. Did you install the seals dry? You need a dab of oil on first start up. They can burn up if they were installed dry.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 1,574
Likes: 2
From: Orlando FL
Former Vendor
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,749
Likes: 4
From: Valencia Ca
The correct tool will locate properly on the steel body and not damage the seal material during installation.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 1,574
Likes: 2
From: Orlando FL
Ok thanks. I'm pulling the valve covers this week and will tsp them down with the correct tool.
I'm hoping the valve seals aren't damaged but we will see.
....correct and and I will add that you need to use the proper tool (seal holder) to tap these in place. You can, in a pinch, use a socket but it is best to either purchase the tool or make one.
The correct tool will locate properly on the steel body and not damage the seal material during installation.
I'm hoping the valve seals aren't damaged but we will see.
....correct and and I will add that you need to use the proper tool (seal holder) to tap these in place. You can, in a pinch, use a socket but it is best to either purchase the tool or make one.
The correct tool will locate properly on the steel body and not damage the seal material during installation.
Former Vendor
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 16,897
Likes: 412
From: Lewisville TX
St. Jude Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13
Depends on the use of the car, but I don't like going overkill on a set of springs if I don't have to.
Sure you could run Comp 921 dual springs with a stock cam, but you will have a bit more parasitic loss and higher oil temps because of the added friction.
If we were building a track only car, that is going to live at 4500-7200 RPM all day, then possibly a different story.
Going to a better spring isn't a bad idea, just don't go overkill as the wear will transfer to other items, and frankly changing springs is easier than the cam and lifters.
Sure you could run Comp 921 dual springs with a stock cam, but you will have a bit more parasitic loss and higher oil temps because of the added friction.
If we were building a track only car, that is going to live at 4500-7200 RPM all day, then possibly a different story.
Going to a better spring isn't a bad idea, just don't go overkill as the wear will transfer to other items, and frankly changing springs is easier than the cam and lifters.