Defective alternator?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 832
Likes: 14
From: Lake Charles Louisiana
Do you have a picture that shows this 1-way clutch that isn't a sprag design or not?
A decoupler pulley on an alternator basically has of a 1-way sprag-type clutch and a spring coupling the pulley to the shaft to absorb some or the belt drive harmonics. If the sprag isn't locking then it's sliding metal on metal.
I'm also going to stick with the 14V and ignore your advice about my charging voltage.
A decoupler pulley on an alternator basically has of a 1-way sprag-type clutch and a spring coupling the pulley to the shaft to absorb some or the belt drive harmonics. If the sprag isn't locking then it's sliding metal on metal.
I'm also going to stick with the 14V and ignore your advice about my charging voltage.
There is the picture. TOTALLY different from a sprag type clutch. Post me a picture that IS A SPRAG type clutch that remotely resembles this clutch. You can't. If you watch the video, either of them, both will tell you that this is a wear item. I have no idea why you are so damn hard headed about this.
Now read this. This is HOW THE ALTERNATOR WORKS!
2000 Chevrolet Corvette V8-5.7L VIN G
Vehicle » Starting and Charging » Charging System » Description and Operation » Charging System Circuit Description
CHARGING SYSTEM CIRCUIT DESCRIPTION
The generator output circuit is connected to battery positive voltage through a fusible link wire at the starter B terminal. This circuit is used to charge the battery and supply power to the vehicle electrical systems.
The generator D terminal or sense circuit is supplied battery positive voltage through another fusible link wire from the starter B terminal. This battery voltage signal is used by the voltage regulator as the reference for system voltage control. If this circuit opens or if for any reason supplies less than 10 Volts to the generator sense circuit, the voltage regulator will automatically sense voltage internally, and the generator will operate at a reduced capacity.
The generator L terminal circuit 225 is a discrete circuit to the PCM. The PCM applies ignition voltage to the generator L terminal circuit. A small amount of current flows from this circuit through the generator windings to ground. This creates a magnetic field which starts the generator process. When the generator reaches operating speed and is producing a voltage, a solid state switch for the L terminal circuit in the generator opens and the PCM detects that the initial startup current flow has stopped. The PCM expects to detect low voltage on the L terminal circuit prior to the generator rotating at operating speed and to be at ignition voltage potential when the generator is operating normally.
The generator F terminal circuit 23 is an input to the PCM and indicates the percentage of total capacity that the generator is producing. This signal is detected by the PCM as a duty cycle from the generator and is displayed on the scan tool as a percentage. The PCM monitors the generator output under all conditions to determine if it is functioning normally.
2000 Chevrolet Corvette V8-5.7L VIN G
Vehicle » Starting and Charging » Charging System » Description and Operation » Charging System Operation
CHARGING SYSTEM OPERATION
The charging system provides voltage to the battery and to the vehicle electrical Systems. The generator's voltage regulator controls the rotor's field current to meet these needs.
Current flows (1) through the slip rings (8) to the rotor winding (2) in order to create a magnetic field (3). The engine-driven rotor (4) is rotated by the engine within the stator (5). This rotation creates an alternating current (AC) voltage in the stator windings (6). The AC voltage goes to the rectifier bridge (7). The rectifier bridge converts this AC voltage to direct current (DC) voltage. The DC voltage is delivered from the generator's output terminal to the battery and the electrical systems through a fusible link (11). The regulator grounds circuit 225 (10) when the charging system voltage is abnormal. This information causes the PCM to send a class 2 message to the instrument panel cluster, which activates the Charging System Fault message on the driver information center.
The voltage regulator limits system voltage by controlling the rotor field current. When the field current is on, the regulator switches the rotor field on and off at a fixed rate of about 400 cycles per second . By varying the overall on/off time, correct average field current for proper system voltage control is maintained. At high speeds, the on time may be 10 percent and the off time may be 90 percent . At low speeds, and with high electrical loads, the on/off time may be 90 percent and 10 percent respectively. The voltmeter reads battery voltage when the engine is not running and reads charging system voltage when the engine is running. The normal indication is between 11 and 16 volts.
My own view on charging system operation is this, the alternator must replace the energy the starter consumed. After that, it just needs to produce a little more current than the loads are consuming, period. As long as this happens, the battery will stay fully charged and not get overcharged which would probably just shorten it's life.A quick easy check, connect a voltmeter to the battery with the key off. As long as all the modules are sleeping, it should read 12.6v. Start the engine and turn on everything electrical all the way up (blower, headlamps and wipers on high). Don't forget the rear defogger. As long as it reads 12.8v or higher at idle and over 13v at 1500-2000rpm's, the charging system is doing its job. If it reads lower, check the voltage at the alternator. If it's still low, replace the alternator. If it's reads higher, you need to find and repair the resistance causing the voltage drop.
I have no idea what else to tell you other than you are WRONG ABOUT THE CLUTCH ON THESE ALTERNATORS AND YOU ARE WRONG ABOUT THE ALTERNATOR TRYING TO PUT OUT 14V AT ALL TIMES.
Last edited by reath1; Nov 1, 2014 at 04:14 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 832
Likes: 14
From: Lake Charles Louisiana
And linonelhutz, please don't reply until you've watched both videos, looked at the pic I posted and read how the alternator works. We have had this conversation several times and you continue to argue a point that you have done no research on. I did the research for you. Just watch it and read it. If you still feel that it is a sprag clutch and that the alternator voltage output does not vary depending on the load and battery state then I or no one else can help you. Repair shops, on the other hand, will LOVE you!
This forum is a great tool for folks who are just starting down a repair road that others have been down. You are doing a dis-service by passing on information that is clearly incorrect.
This forum is a great tool for folks who are just starting down a repair road that others have been down. You are doing a dis-service by passing on information that is clearly incorrect.
Last edited by reath1; Nov 1, 2014 at 04:11 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 11,150
Likes: 890
From: South Western Ontario
I've watched the videos before.
The picture is crap and doesn't give any close-up details on the clutch besides labeling a carrier on the clutch. Still, the "clutch" is the inner race and the "pulley" is the outer race for the sprags. The "carrier" is the part holding all the little sprags in place.
Here is a good animation of the sprag clutch since you don't seem to even know what a sprag clutch even is.
http://www.gmnbt.com/sprag-clutches.htm
The above link calls the "carrier" a cage and the sprags bearings.
There is only 2 things that can happen when it turns in the driving direction. The pieces either rotate to grab or they don't grab. Then all that is left to drive the alternator is the metal on metal friction as the pieces slide against on the inner and/or outer races.
As for the alternator.
There are only 4 wires connected to the alternator.
#1 - the main charging wire
#2 - the voltage sensing wire
#3 - the PCM trigger wire
#4 - the PCM field duty cycle feedback wire
The alternator begins to work when it is rotating and the PCM signal is applied to wire #3. Once the regulator is triggered, it adjusts the voltage on wire #1 to maintain about 14.4V at wire #2. Since the sensing wire is connected to the starter solenoid the alternator is attempting to maintain 14.V at that point. That is all the alternator on a C5 does.
The alternator has no way to sense how much current the electrical systems on the car are drawing or what type of battery is in the car. All it attempts to do is produce 14.4V at the starter solenoid. If the battery requires re-charging then the battery will draw current from the alternator. If some other electrical component requires current then it draws current from the alternator. If there is too much current draw from the alternator then the output voltage will drop as the current hits the limit of it's ability. The limit of the alternator depends on the field current and the rpm of the alternator. As the load reaches the output limit of the alternator the output voltage of the alternator will start to drop off.
The section of the manual talking about adjusting to match the loads is referring to adjusting for current. If an extra load is applied to the electrical system then the voltage at the starter solenoid will drop. The regulator senses this decrease in voltage and increases the field current to compensate. A higher field current allows the alternator to supply the higher output current while still maintaining 14.4V at the solenoid terminal.
You are the one doing a disservice to the community by "interpreting" information that you have read without having any real understanding about what you have read.
The picture is crap and doesn't give any close-up details on the clutch besides labeling a carrier on the clutch. Still, the "clutch" is the inner race and the "pulley" is the outer race for the sprags. The "carrier" is the part holding all the little sprags in place.
Here is a good animation of the sprag clutch since you don't seem to even know what a sprag clutch even is.
http://www.gmnbt.com/sprag-clutches.htm
The above link calls the "carrier" a cage and the sprags bearings.
There is only 2 things that can happen when it turns in the driving direction. The pieces either rotate to grab or they don't grab. Then all that is left to drive the alternator is the metal on metal friction as the pieces slide against on the inner and/or outer races.
As for the alternator.
There are only 4 wires connected to the alternator.
#1 - the main charging wire
#2 - the voltage sensing wire
#3 - the PCM trigger wire
#4 - the PCM field duty cycle feedback wire
The alternator begins to work when it is rotating and the PCM signal is applied to wire #3. Once the regulator is triggered, it adjusts the voltage on wire #1 to maintain about 14.4V at wire #2. Since the sensing wire is connected to the starter solenoid the alternator is attempting to maintain 14.V at that point. That is all the alternator on a C5 does.
The alternator has no way to sense how much current the electrical systems on the car are drawing or what type of battery is in the car. All it attempts to do is produce 14.4V at the starter solenoid. If the battery requires re-charging then the battery will draw current from the alternator. If some other electrical component requires current then it draws current from the alternator. If there is too much current draw from the alternator then the output voltage will drop as the current hits the limit of it's ability. The limit of the alternator depends on the field current and the rpm of the alternator. As the load reaches the output limit of the alternator the output voltage of the alternator will start to drop off.
The section of the manual talking about adjusting to match the loads is referring to adjusting for current. If an extra load is applied to the electrical system then the voltage at the starter solenoid will drop. The regulator senses this decrease in voltage and increases the field current to compensate. A higher field current allows the alternator to supply the higher output current while still maintaining 14.4V at the solenoid terminal.
You are the one doing a disservice to the community by "interpreting" information that you have read without having any real understanding about what you have read.
Last edited by lionelhutz; Nov 1, 2014 at 08:22 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 832
Likes: 14
From: Lake Charles Louisiana
Do you have a picture that shows this 1-way clutch that isn't a sprag design or not?
A decoupler pulley on an alternator basically has of a 1-way sprag-type clutch and a spring coupling the pulley to the shaft to absorb some or the belt drive harmonics. If the sprag isn't locking then it's sliding metal on metal.
I'm also going to stick with the 14V and ignore your advice about my charging voltage.
A decoupler pulley on an alternator basically has of a 1-way sprag-type clutch and a spring coupling the pulley to the shaft to absorb some or the belt drive harmonics. If the sprag isn't locking then it's sliding metal on metal.
I'm also going to stick with the 14V and ignore your advice about my charging voltage.
I've watched the videos before.
The picture is crap and doesn't give any close-up details on the clutch besides labeling a carrier on the clutch. Still, the "clutch" is the inner race and the "pulley" is the outer race for the sprags. The "carrier" is the part holding all the little sprags in place.
Here is a good animation of the sprag clutch since you don't seem to even know what a sprag clutch even is.
http://www.gmnbt.com/sprag-clutches.htm
The above link calls the "carrier" a cage and the sprags bearings.
There is only 2 things that can happen when it turns in the driving direction. The pieces either rotate to grab or they don't grab. Then all that is left to drive the alternator is the metal on metal friction as the pieces slide against on the inner and/or outer races.
As for the alternator.
There are only 4 wires connected to the alternator.
#1 - the main charging wire
#2 - the voltage sensing wire
#3 - the PCM trigger wire
#4 - the PCM field duty cycle feedback wire
The alternator begins to work when it is rotating and the PCM signal is applied to wire #3. Once the regulator is triggered, it adjusts the voltage on wire #1 to maintain about 14.4V at wire #2. Since the sensing wire is connected to the starter solenoid the alternator is attempting to maintain 14.V at that point. That is all the alternator on a C5 does.
The alternator has no way to sense how much current the electrical systems on the car are drawing or what type of battery is in the car. All it attempts to do is produce 14.4V at the starter solenoid. If the battery requires re-charging then the battery will draw current from the alternator. If some other electrical component requires current then it draws current from the alternator. If there is too much current draw from the alternator then the output voltage will drop as the current hits the limit of it's ability. The limit of the alternator depends on the field current and the rpm of the alternator. As the load reaches the output limit of the alternator the output voltage of the alternator will start to drop off.
The section of the manual talking about adjusting to match the loads is referring to adjusting for current. If an extra load is applied to the electrical system then the voltage at the starter solenoid will drop. The regulator senses this decrease in voltage and increases the field current to compensate. A higher field current allows the alternator to supply the higher output current while still maintaining 14.4V at the solenoid terminal.
You are the one doing a disservice to the community by "interpreting" information that you have read without having any real understanding about what you have read.
The picture is crap and doesn't give any close-up details on the clutch besides labeling a carrier on the clutch. Still, the "clutch" is the inner race and the "pulley" is the outer race for the sprags. The "carrier" is the part holding all the little sprags in place.
Here is a good animation of the sprag clutch since you don't seem to even know what a sprag clutch even is.
http://www.gmnbt.com/sprag-clutches.htm
The above link calls the "carrier" a cage and the sprags bearings.
There is only 2 things that can happen when it turns in the driving direction. The pieces either rotate to grab or they don't grab. Then all that is left to drive the alternator is the metal on metal friction as the pieces slide against on the inner and/or outer races.
As for the alternator.
There are only 4 wires connected to the alternator.
#1 - the main charging wire
#2 - the voltage sensing wire
#3 - the PCM trigger wire
#4 - the PCM field duty cycle feedback wire
The alternator begins to work when it is rotating and the PCM signal is applied to wire #3. Once the regulator is triggered, it adjusts the voltage on wire #1 to maintain about 14.4V at wire #2. Since the sensing wire is connected to the starter solenoid the alternator is attempting to maintain 14.V at that point. That is all the alternator on a C5 does.
The alternator has no way to sense how much current the electrical systems on the car are drawing or what type of battery is in the car. All it attempts to do is produce 14.4V at the starter solenoid. If the battery requires re-charging then the battery will draw current from the alternator. If some other electrical component requires current then it draws current from the alternator. If there is too much current draw from the alternator then the output voltage will drop as the current hits the limit of it's ability. The limit of the alternator depends on the field current and the rpm of the alternator. As the load reaches the output limit of the alternator the output voltage of the alternator will start to drop off.
The section of the manual talking about adjusting to match the loads is referring to adjusting for current. If an extra load is applied to the electrical system then the voltage at the starter solenoid will drop. The regulator senses this decrease in voltage and increases the field current to compensate. A higher field current allows the alternator to supply the higher output current while still maintaining 14.4V at the solenoid terminal.
You are the one doing a disservice to the community by "interpreting" information that you have read without having any real understanding about what you have read.
THE EXPLODED VIEW I POSTED DOES NOT SHOW SPRAGS BECAUSE THERE ARE NO SPRAGS IN AN OAD PULLEY.
THE C5 ALTERNATOR DOES NOT HAVE A SPRAG TYPE CLUTCH.
THE C5 ALTERNATOR DOES NOT HAVE A SPRAG TYPE CLUTCH.
Have you ever had the experience of an extremely hot clutch not having enough bite to move the vehicle and then letting it cool and it pulling the vehicle? SAME PRINCIPLE!
Now, as far as your alternator continuing to charge at 14.4v continuously, if it does, again, your battery is not long for this world.
This video is the shortest I could find that will show and tell you that your alternator does not, and should not be putting out 14+ volts at all times.
You are totally wrong on both the C5 having a sprag pulley on the alternator as well as the alternator sending 14+ volts at max rated amps constantly to the battery. Admit it or don't. I don't care. But please don't continue to pass this crap on to those who truly don't know and are looking for knowledge. It is, was and always will be incorrect.
Apologies to the original poster for derailing your post.
Last edited by reath1; Nov 2, 2014 at 03:32 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 11,150
Likes: 890
From: South Western Ontario
Seriously. Can you post a picture of the friction material of this clutch you keep going on about or not?
It "DOES NOT SHOW SPRAGS BECAUSE THERE ARE NO SPRAGS"
It doesn't show any friction material either.
Your research ability sucks and you continue to prove you don't understand what you are posting about. Actually, I think you ignore real sources because they prove you are wrong. I go to the source.
OAP/OWC is a sprag type one-way clutch.
OAD is a sprag type one-way clutch and a damper - basically a spring tuned for the belt drive system to absorb harmonics in the belt drive.
http://www.gates.com/products/automo...er-pulleys-adp
http://www.decouplerpulley.com/files...%20Article.pdf
THEY BOTH USE THE SAME CLUTCH BUT THE OAD HAS A SPRING TOO. Just like I posted. You just posted the OAP is a sprag and the OAD has the same clutch.
As for the alternator. The ONLY feedback the alternator has is VOLTAGE. The regulator regulates VOLTAGE. IT DOES NOT have any means to determine if the battery is charged or not. You've more than proven you're incapable of understanding this simple fact with your insistence of giving the regulator characteristics it does not have.
The guy was talking about the field (the rotor of the alternator) and said the regulator lower the voltage on the FIELD winding when the battery is charged. Lowering the field winding voltage lowers the current out of the alternator.
When the battery is partially discharged it will be drawing current from the alternator as it charges. The alternator has to output the charging current while maintaining 14.4V. This might require say 5A in the field winding.
Once the battery is charged then the current draw from the alternator drops. The alternator then has to output less current while maintaining 14.4V/. This might only require say 0.5A in the field winding.
If the field winding stayed at 5A then the output voltage would rise as the battery charges and quits drawing as much current from the alternator.
You need to do more research and not post back until your actually understand how an alternator works. You've proven you're completely clueless so far.
Boob-Tube - "someone posted a video so it must be true"
It "DOES NOT SHOW SPRAGS BECAUSE THERE ARE NO SPRAGS"
It doesn't show any friction material either.
Your research ability sucks and you continue to prove you don't understand what you are posting about. Actually, I think you ignore real sources because they prove you are wrong. I go to the source.
OAP/OWC is a sprag type one-way clutch.
OAD is a sprag type one-way clutch and a damper - basically a spring tuned for the belt drive system to absorb harmonics in the belt drive.
http://www.gates.com/products/automo...er-pulleys-adp
Originally Posted by Gates
Traditionally, original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) have used solid serpentine belt alternator pulleys and automatic belt tensioners. However, recent advancements in alternator pulley technology have paved the way for one-way clutch (OWC) pulleys and overrunning alternator decoupler (OAD) pulleys, which improve the performance and efficiency of car and light truck engines.
The OWC pulley allows the rotor of the alternator to coast when the engine is decelerating, and the OAD pulley utilizes the one-way clutch technology while also providing engine vibration absorption. As the clutch mechanism engages and disengages the alternator, the OAD's patented torsion spring isolates vibrations throughout the system to ensure peak engine performance.
The OWC pulley allows the rotor of the alternator to coast when the engine is decelerating, and the OAD pulley utilizes the one-way clutch technology while also providing engine vibration absorption. As the clutch mechanism engages and disengages the alternator, the OAD's patented torsion spring isolates vibrations throughout the system to ensure peak engine performance.
Originally Posted by Litens
The OAD has all the same features of an OAP but also utilizes an internal vibration absorbing spring. This internal spring is the difference between the OAP and the OAD.
THEY BOTH USE THE SAME CLUTCH BUT THE OAD HAS A SPRING TOO. Just like I posted. You just posted the OAP is a sprag and the OAD has the same clutch.
As for the alternator. The ONLY feedback the alternator has is VOLTAGE. The regulator regulates VOLTAGE. IT DOES NOT have any means to determine if the battery is charged or not. You've more than proven you're incapable of understanding this simple fact with your insistence of giving the regulator characteristics it does not have.
The guy was talking about the field (the rotor of the alternator) and said the regulator lower the voltage on the FIELD winding when the battery is charged. Lowering the field winding voltage lowers the current out of the alternator.
When the battery is partially discharged it will be drawing current from the alternator as it charges. The alternator has to output the charging current while maintaining 14.4V. This might require say 5A in the field winding.
Once the battery is charged then the current draw from the alternator drops. The alternator then has to output less current while maintaining 14.4V/. This might only require say 0.5A in the field winding.
If the field winding stayed at 5A then the output voltage would rise as the battery charges and quits drawing as much current from the alternator.
You need to do more research and not post back until your actually understand how an alternator works. You've proven you're completely clueless so far.
Boob-Tube - "someone posted a video so it must be true"
Last edited by lionelhutz; Nov 2, 2014 at 10:24 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 832
Likes: 14
From: Lake Charles Louisiana
You went to a dealer, Gates. I went to the manufacturer who has the PATENT on the pulley.
http://www.decouplerpulley.com/dealers.cfm
I'm still waiting on you to post a picture of an OAD pulley that has sprags in it. I'll comment on this post again as soon as you do. Which won't happen because it doesn't exist.
I WILL do some more reading on alternators. I am pretty sure I understand how they work at this point.
Bottom line is an alternator with an AOD pulley can wear out. It does not have to either lock or not. It can PARTIALLY grab and cause the alternator to put out less current than it should.
http://www.decouplerpulley.com/dealers.cfm
I'm still waiting on you to post a picture of an OAD pulley that has sprags in it. I'll comment on this post again as soon as you do. Which won't happen because it doesn't exist.
I WILL do some more reading on alternators. I am pretty sure I understand how they work at this point.
Bottom line is an alternator with an AOD pulley can wear out. It does not have to either lock or not. It can PARTIALLY grab and cause the alternator to put out less current than it should.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 832
Likes: 14
From: Lake Charles Louisiana
http://www.decouplerpulley.com/files...esentation.pdf
If you read down the page, Litens WARNS of counterfeiters removing their clutch and replacing it with a sprag type clutch. TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT CLUTCHES.
Now, on the 14.4 charging continuously. It looks like you are somewhat correct on that. The alternator should maintain 14.4 but less amperage will go to the battery depending on demand.
Now, I can admit being wrong. You should try it sometime. Very painless.
The point of me getting into this thread is backed up by everything I can find on the internet as well as all documentation from Liten. The company who manufactures the pulley that is on our alternators. They have the patent on it. The spring as well as the clutch material can and will wear causing the alternator to still spin and put out current but not the maximum that it can or needs to. It does not have to either engage or not engage. It can "partially work".
If you read down the page, Litens WARNS of counterfeiters removing their clutch and replacing it with a sprag type clutch. TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT CLUTCHES.
Now, on the 14.4 charging continuously. It looks like you are somewhat correct on that. The alternator should maintain 14.4 but less amperage will go to the battery depending on demand.
Now, I can admit being wrong. You should try it sometime. Very painless.
The point of me getting into this thread is backed up by everything I can find on the internet as well as all documentation from Liten. The company who manufactures the pulley that is on our alternators. They have the patent on it. The spring as well as the clutch material can and will wear causing the alternator to still spin and put out current but not the maximum that it can or needs to. It does not have to either engage or not engage. It can "partially work".
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 11,150
Likes: 890
From: South Western Ontario
Replacing the pulley with a 1-way clutch and damper spring with one that just has a 1-way clutch would not be a direct replacement.
I will bet you money the clutch does not have any friction material in it.
Any 1-way clutch design can wear out. If it's slipping then it's generating friction and heat inside the pulley and that small assembly not designed for the clutch to slip won't last very long before it completely self destructs from the heat and friction.
I will bet you money the clutch does not have any friction material in it.
Any 1-way clutch design can wear out. If it's slipping then it's generating friction and heat inside the pulley and that small assembly not designed for the clutch to slip won't last very long before it completely self destructs from the heat and friction.
Last edited by lionelhutz; Nov 3, 2014 at 09:14 AM.
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 832
Likes: 14
From: Lake Charles Louisiana
Replacing the pulley with a 1-way clutch and damper spring with one that just has a 1-way clutch would not be a direct replacement.
I will bet you money the clutch does not have any friction material in it.
Any 1-way clutch can wear out. If it's slipping then it's generating friction and heat inside and that small assembly won't last very long before it completely self destructs.
I will bet you money the clutch does not have any friction material in it.
Any 1-way clutch can wear out. If it's slipping then it's generating friction and heat inside and that small assembly won't last very long before it completely self destructs.
And mine lasted about 4 months under the slipping condition. It is a daily driver.
And you stated that these clutches cannot slip. They bite or they do not. That is FALSE.
Last edited by reath1; Nov 3, 2014 at 09:16 AM.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 11,150
Likes: 890
From: South Western Ontario
No clue on how friction works? If the clutch doesn't bite then it is slipping - DUH, you can't be that stupid to not know the opposite of biting and driving is slipping. If it is slipping then all that is left is the metal on metal grinding inside the pulley to drive the alternator shaft.How long would a manual transmission clutch last if you held 5000rpm and used your foot to regulate vehicle speed?
If a manual transmission clutch is worn out and not biting then it is slipping. Typically, it starts slipping when trying to accelerate at first.
I posted that the alternator clutch is not designed to be slipping when it's working. It's not designed to allow the alternator to be driven at a lower rpm.
In the other thread you went on about how your voltage kept dropping to 11V. The alternator certainly wasn't working then.
Last edited by lionelhutz; Nov 3, 2014 at 09:27 AM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 832
Likes: 14
From: Lake Charles Louisiana
Replacing the pulley with a 1-way clutch and damper spring with one that just has a 1-way clutch would not be a direct replacement.
I will bet you money the clutch does not have any friction material in it.
Any 1-way clutch design can wear out. If it's slipping then it's generating friction and heat inside the pulley and that small assembly not designed for the clutch to slip won't last very long before it completely self destructs from the heat and friction.
I will bet you money the clutch does not have any friction material in it.
Any 1-way clutch design can wear out. If it's slipping then it's generating friction and heat inside the pulley and that small assembly not designed for the clutch to slip won't last very long before it completely self destructs from the heat and friction.
No clue on how friction works? If the clutch doesn't bite then it is slipping - DUH, you can't be that stupid to not know the opposite of biting and driving is slipping. If it is slipping then all that is left is the metal on metal grinding inside the pulley to drive the alternator shaft.How long would a manual transmission clutch last if you held 5000rpm and used your foot to regulate vehicle speed?
If a manual transmission clutch is worn out and not biting then it is slipping. Typically, it starts slipping when trying to accelerate at first.
I posted that the alternator clutch is not designed to be slipping when it's working. It's not designed to allow the alternator to be driven at a lower rpm.
In the other thread you went on about how your voltage kept dropping to 11V. The alternator certainly wasn't working then.
https://images.search.yahoo.com/imag...w&fr=yfp-t-269
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,479
Likes: 33
From: Jacksonville Florida
Any updates on the OP's alternator issue???
He seemed to be having the same problem I'm having.
The symptoms happened all of a sudden, not slowly over time.
Alternator seems to work on most occasions when the car is cold, but, voltage begins to drop as the alternator apparently shuts off as the car heats up.
I've had the battery and the alternator checked at Auto Zone and Advanced Auto Parts. Both tested perfectly at both shops. Of course they didn't run the alternator long enough if it is indeed a warming up problem. It seems to shut down after 15-20 minutes of running.
I'm still troubleshooting.
He seemed to be having the same problem I'm having.
The symptoms happened all of a sudden, not slowly over time.
Alternator seems to work on most occasions when the car is cold, but, voltage begins to drop as the alternator apparently shuts off as the car heats up.
I've had the battery and the alternator checked at Auto Zone and Advanced Auto Parts. Both tested perfectly at both shops. Of course they didn't run the alternator long enough if it is indeed a warming up problem. It seems to shut down after 15-20 minutes of running.
I'm still troubleshooting.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
Any updates on the OP's alternator issue???
He seemed to be having the same problem I'm having.
The symptoms happened all of a sudden, not slowly over time.
Alternator seems to work on most occasions when the car is cold, but, voltage begins to drop as the alternator apparently shuts off as the car heats up.
I've had the battery and the alternator checked at Auto Zone and Advanced Auto Parts. Both tested perfectly at both shops. Of course they didn't run the alternator long enough if it is indeed a warming up problem. It seems to shut down after 15-20 minutes of running.
I'm still troubleshooting.
He seemed to be having the same problem I'm having.
The symptoms happened all of a sudden, not slowly over time.
Alternator seems to work on most occasions when the car is cold, but, voltage begins to drop as the alternator apparently shuts off as the car heats up.
I've had the battery and the alternator checked at Auto Zone and Advanced Auto Parts. Both tested perfectly at both shops. Of course they didn't run the alternator long enough if it is indeed a warming up problem. It seems to shut down after 15-20 minutes of running.
I'm still troubleshooting.
Again, it should read full battery voltage or charging voltage..
The starter solenoid is the TIE point for the alternator & the battery.. If that connection is compromised, you will have all sorts of charging issues.
Bill
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,479
Likes: 33
From: Jacksonville Florida
When it "SHUTS DOWN" read the wire on pin D and see if there is battery voltage there. Then measure the BATT terminal and see what it reads.
Again, it should read full battery voltage or charging voltage..
The starter solenoid is the TIE point for the alternator & the battery.. If that connection is compromised, you will have all sorts of charging issues.
Bill
Again, it should read full battery voltage or charging voltage..
The starter solenoid is the TIE point for the alternator & the battery.. If that connection is compromised, you will have all sorts of charging issues.
Bill
When the system is working and engine running I get 14.6 volts at battery and alternator battery connection. Pin D also reads full battery voltage. The voltage reading across the battery positive terminal and the battery lug on the alternator is 0.06 volts.
When system is not working (no charging) I get matching voltage at battery, alternator battery lug and pin D on alternator. When I check voltage across battery positive terminal and alternator battery lug I get 0.00 volts with no fluctuation. This is with engine running.
I did not remove any of the nuts at the starter solenoid, but, did check all the connections and they are VERY tight and clean and the voltage readings across the battery and alternator lug makes me think that all is good at the starter. Maybe I'm oversimplifying?
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
Just for the sake of saying that we are doing something,, disconnect the NEG battery cable. Measure the resistance from the POS battery cable to the BATT terminal on the alternator and ,Pin D Make sure that you use the correct resistance scale.
Bill
Bill
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,479
Likes: 33
From: Jacksonville Florida
OK, I checked the resistance from the positive battery terminal to the battery lug on the alternator. Set the multi meter in the 0-200 ohms range and got a pretty steady reading from 0.0 - 0.1 and occasionally as high as 0.3. I think the high was just from me wiggling the probe on the alternator lug to make sure I had a good connection.
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,479
Likes: 33
From: Jacksonville Florida
Broke down and picked up a remanufactured alternator from Auto Zone.
Looks identical to my original in every way. The salesman showed me on the computer screen in the store that it was listed as direct replacement for 2004 Z06.
Installed it and started up the car....same codes and no charging!!
I may be on the verge of taking it to the dealer to be fixed. Been messing with it for 4 days with no luck. Hate to do it but it's my daily driver, so....
Looks identical to my original in every way. The salesman showed me on the computer screen in the store that it was listed as direct replacement for 2004 Z06.
Installed it and started up the car....same codes and no charging!!
I may be on the verge of taking it to the dealer to be fixed. Been messing with it for 4 days with no luck. Hate to do it but it's my daily driver, so....
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,479
Likes: 33
From: Jacksonville Florida
Just checked the DTC codes again and with the new alternator in I have a new code.....P0622. I'm going to check and see if I have the required 5.0 volts at pin B on the multi plug at the alternator. Looks like I check that with the engine running.