Hi all, so I have the entire drivetrain in the 2002 C5 Vert pulled. Completely stock with 145k miles. It ran well, but leaked, it's dirty, and the 4L60E tranny is bad. So, I've decided to go through the motor as well.

I'm going to have a local machine shop do the block work, polish the crank, balance the rotating assembly, and install the cam bearings (he's a known LS guy). I'm doing all of the pre-assembly and final assembly myself to save costs, and besides I enjoy the work. Block looks good, so it seems only a hone is required. Machine shop is recommending new forged pistons and rods. Any reason why I shouldn't use the existing pistons and rods? (Keep in mind I'm trying to be cost conscious, but still want to do things right) Obviously I'll be installing new rings, bearings, ect. I don't see any significant wear on the skirts, ect.

I'm looking to keep things as economical as possible, but I still would like to modify it for a bit more oomph. I'd like to add 75-100HP.

Plan so far.

1. LS6 Cam
2. LS6 Valve Springs
3. My stock LS1 heads (I may consider getting a set of used LS6 heads if I can find a decent deal)
4. High Volume Oil Pump
5. Keeping stock intake manifold
6. I'll most likely do an exhaust of some sort. At minimum an axle back system. If budget allows, I'd like to do long tubes and an x pipe.
7. Cold air intake? Might...

What else should I consider doing to meet my power gains and budget? Thanks.

 

if it were me....

1. Bigger cam
2. Stiffer springs to accomodate the aftermarket cam as well as a set of chromoly pushrods... new lifters and trays are a must!
3. 243/799 heads, ditch the ls1's
4. Melling 10295 or ported ls6 pump... also a good timing chain like a katech c5r
5. you're good here, stock ls6 intake is fine
6. lg, arh, or kooks longtubes... you can reuse the stock axleback for now until you are ready to make some real noise
7. vararam or callaway honker

and then there's the drivetrain

 

Yes, I do plan on new GM stock lifters and trays.

What cam would you recommend? Keep in mind I want to retain good drivability and economy. I live in the city, so I'll have plenty of stop and go, stuck in traffic driving.

Regarding the drivetrain, I'm upgrading the sunshell in the tranny to help matters. The rear end and axels, stock for now.

 

Honestly, if you're not adding power adders, I'd recommend just about any so-called "stage two" cam from our reputable vendors. They'll make similar power and sound similar. Unless you can give us a more precise use case, that's a fairly vague answer but it'll serve you fine.

"Stage two" usually means "enough power that you notice it, but not enough to give you any annoyance."

If you live in an emissions state... don't, you know, slap a sticker on the engine saying you have such a cam. Most "stage two" cams should pass sniff tests, and nobody knows they're swapped unless you tell them. But if you live in an emissions state, learn a little about overlap and lobe separation angle to find out what will pass a sniff test in california, then go with that.

 

personally I think something in the high 220's to low 230's duration on a 114lsa would work well, that's not too small but not too big either... or if you wanted to have one spec'd out you could get in touch with someone like Brian Tooley, Tony Mamo, Martin Smallwood, or Patrick G, any one of those guys could get you set up... my cam is 230/236 on 115lsa and it drives fine, you could drive it any day in any conditions if you wanted to... I don't have much experience with the autos so I can't really comment on that but you should at least consider inspecting and possibly rebuilding the torque tube with new bearings and couplers and if you have the money even upgrade to the tube that uses 12mm couplers... the stock diff can survive at the power level you are shooting for as long as you can keep the drivetrain from shaking or wheelhopping, that is the number 1 killer of drivetrain parts... a good set of motor mounts, diff brace, and a trans brace can also help with this... stock axles are fine, that's one of the only parts the c5 drivetrain has that is actually better than the newer c6's

 

Yes, I have the torque tube, and the tranny (bad, no shift to 3rd) out of the car. Going to rebuild both as well as suspension and brakes.

 

Which vendors do you recommend? Car will be used primarily as a street driven, 3rd car cruiser. Little to no track use. I'm just looking for a nice little boost in power over stock, but still retaining stock like drivability, and reliability.

 

I can help design a package for you with my new Mamo Motorsports LS7 heads that will knock your socks off.....huge power and near perfect drivability (perfect if we keep the cam real small).

Secret is rolling with an extremely efficient set of heads....my new heads flow 40+ CFM more than stock with an intake port that's 5 cc's smaller than stock.....try and do that with a ported set of OEM castings (obviously it's physically impossible). The reason these heads work so well is the same reason the AFR 205 cathedrals worked so well also which I designed back in 2004.

Big CFM isn't the answer....it's the combination of big CFM and alot of airspeed to pack the cylinder....thats whats required to build something that truly stands apart from the crowd and helps build more bottom and midrange grunt also....it's the have your cake and eat it too scenario and in this case the price of that "cake" is reasonable all things considered.

Shoot me a PM, email, or a phone call for that matter....we can better discuss this and the rest of the combination I would design for you in more detail.

Would love to help you achieve your goals....my specialty is getting big power from combinations that drive extremely well....if you have followed my career over the years you would have likely picked up on that already.

Get in touch.....we can discuss further from there



Cheers,
Tony

 

Thanks Tony. I'll be giving you a call.

 

Your budget needs to grow.

Here are some recommendations for better engine reliability:

Better valve springs than the LS6
Better pushrods properly measured for proper lifter preload.
Upgraded rocker arm trunions The new bushed kit.
New lifters and lifter buckets. I used Caddy racing lifters but LS7s are good.
Mamo recommended cam
Mamo recommended heads
ARP HEAD STUDS ( Far superior to the OEM one time use Torque To Yield bolts.)
ARP Dampener bolt
Powerbond/DAYCO dampener
Best timing chain that you can afford
Timing chain dampener kit
Melling oil pump

Transmission. What UP-GRADES are being installed. Get with Tony and see if he recommends a Higher Stall Speed Converter to go with his cam selection/recommendations:


Google "4l60e transmission up-grades" Take a look at the some of the improvement videos. Here is one example that details some of the RECOMMENDED IMPROVEMENTS:


Get and install an aftermarket Trans Oil Cooler. Especially if you get a Higher Stall Speed Converter.

DIFFRENTIAL: At a minimum, I recommend replacing the side cover seals and the output shaft seals.
The limited slip clutches use a Belleville spring to apply tension on the clutches. They are usually found to be cracked or broken. Take a look at the post that details differential up-grades on the cheep and it will give you some insight on what can be easily improved inside the differential.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...and-right.html

TORQUE TUBE. At a minimum, disassemble and replace the rubber couplers and check the bearings!

Rods and pistons: That's a tough one. The LS rods are pretty good if you stay inside the stock RPM limits. I would install new ARP rod bolts and make sure that the rods are properly sized.

As for pistons, If it were me, I would replace them but, the machine shop would need to spec out the OEM ones. I would HATE to have cold start piston slap in a new engine!

Hope this helps..

Bill

 

Something to consider......put a LS3 in it rather than rebuild your LS1. Sell off the LS1 stuff to recoup some of the money back on your LS3. I just did it and I'm very happy with the results. By the time you pay for machine work and new parts for your LS1 I think you'll be into for as much, if not more, than the LS3 and will make similar power as the stock LS3.

 

This is going to be interesting!!!

 

On that, I'd recommend getting new ride height bolts (replace your worn out rubbers on the ones you have), get an alignment and call it a day. I put in a poly kit and I don't like it at all. Unless you intend this as primarily a track car, the poly bushing kits are brutal for ride. Mine is so stiff it knocks the rearview mirror out of place all the time. I should get a mouthpiece or before long I'll need caps on my teeth.

 

Agree, spend some bucks on suspension to match your HP numbers. All the HP in the world is worthless unless you get it to the road.

 

Definitely don't want poly bushings. This will be a street cruiser, not looking to going nuts.

 

Careful of a high volume pump, these can cause drain back issues.

PS: I highly recommend Tony

 

If it were me

If you're not doing forged pistons (Wiseco can be had for $500) There is no reason for a forged rod(Eagle can be had for $350 with ARP bolts, to resize stock rods with ARP bolts is $250)

Head studs..wtf? Seen guys run 20lbs of boost on stock stuff.

This is the part # of a Complete head seat I found that GM offers GM #12499217 and I bought it for $141.

I would build an LS6, a reliable, drive like stock 385 whp engine that will run forever. 243 or 799 heads $400 or less, LS6 intake $400 or less, LS6 cam $100.

I would run PAC 1218 springs, if money is tight, run the GM Blue spring

Put a Melling M295 pump in it, no need for High volume this or high pressure that.

Look at this Rollmaster/iwis timing chain, just a shade less strong that the C5R for $100 less Iwis#3SR60-2

 

FASTFATBOY

"Head studs..wtf? Seen guys run 20lbs of boost on stock stuff."



I have to disagree with you on the head studs. Ive seen some well seasoned mechanics with quality torque wrenches STRIP the threads out of the block. Especially on the bolt holes at either end of each bank. ZERO reason for them to strip but, they did during that finial angle torque.

If the threads are weak at all or a little oversied, they will strip right out.

The studs screw in all the way to the bottom of the hole and once they are in, there is no roataional forces acting against the threads in the block when you torque the nuts.

Ive used OEM Head bolts and ARP Studs and the studs are a LOT nicer to install and if you ever need to remove the head/s they are reusable.

Just my 2 cents. If I help someone do head Removal/Reinstall, I strongly recommend that they use the studs. If not, they can torque the bolts themselves and if something goes wrong, the repair not coming out of my pocket.

BC

 

I will agree with you on many things, however this is not one of them. I have seen more than a few ARP studs break off in blocks at the start of the thread on the stud, as a matter of fact a buddy has a completely machined LS6 block with one broken off in it for 3 years now and we can't get it out, there are no EDM businesses close to us.

If you use the ARP tool to clean the threads and blow out each hole, VERY rarely will a factory bolt fail in any way. Google "ARP head stud broken" and see what pops up. They all break off where the threads start.

On a stock build I will never see the need for studs, a buddy Rob Powell made 940rwhp on a stock longblock LS6(record holder), cam only with a blower. No head gaskets or bolts failed.